[addabox]

I'm still in. Things have indeed picked up as the plague spreads and we can dispense with the idiotic dithering and just start having people run for their lives.

That lady CDC partner hasn't gotten much more appealing though. She really, really needs to come up to speed. Until the last episode she was still spending all her time acting all upset and worrying about the "patients" and wondering why everybody was so down with killing lamprey tongued beast men. Jesus lady. They're LAMPREY TONGUED BEAST MEN. Maybe it's time to consider "survival" instead of wanting to have morality chats every few minutes.

Loved the getting the rat man and the old guy together, though. They're like "hey, I dig your pitiless killing style, you got what it takes in these lamprey tongued beast men times. Nice to meet you."

[psmith2.0]

Exactly...putting Setrakian and the exterminator guy together is like Boba Fett and Batman teaming up! There's gonna be some serious, high-level ass-beating taking place. If those vampires knew what was good for them, they'd take a bus to Ohio or something.

And, yes...Nora the Oblivitoon. I wish they'd thrown her out into the parking lot last week as a sacrifice or something. She's completely ridiculous, even after seeing all the things she's seen with her very own eyes (the pilot reanimating, the attack in her mom's nursery home, the little French girl and her dad, the events at the gas station). Good grief, lady.

"We need to find a way to stop this...".

"We are, you idiot...we're shooting silver nails, cutting off heads and starting fires. Try it sometime!"

My favorite character is Eichorst, the never-aging Nazi. That's a good, creepy role.

[psmith2.0]

That was an interesting episode tonight. Hmmm...

[Naderfan]

Nora drives me absolutely up the wall, for all the reasons mentioned. I liked how the exterminator cut to the quick when she was going on and on about how it should have been one of Jim's friends to take care of him. A little late for you to come to that decision, idiot.

Also, is it just me, or did it seem like they had that sex scene for the sake of having a sex scene? I mean, really, I get that people will still have urges and everything during the apocalypse and it makes sense to seek out comfort from others, but still. Right at that moment?

no wonder Eph didn't get custody. Even though his son had just been attacked by the boyfriend, witnessed the fight/killing of said monster boyfriend, and is dealing with his mom missing, Eph's response is to send him off with a bunch of strangers (to the boy) and then further delay joining him just so he could sleep with his old flame and then do some cuddle time?

[psmith2.0]

Yep, he's a bit of a goober.

I'm so confused about the timeline on this show, the passage of time and how far along they are since that plane was stopped on the runway. In some ways, it feels like just a couple of days have passed. But in others, it feels like a full week or two. These people are packing a lot of travel, everywhere-at-once, making-good-time activities into what is probably just a few days?

What did you think about the Master's reveal at the very end, when he removed his hood for the first time? I was preparing to be terrified and repulsed, and instead I was like "is that Gary Busey trying to be all goth?" The regular, run-of-the-mill vampires we've seen for the past 4-5 episodes all look 10x scarier than this guy. That was just a strange let-down of a reveal. I was thinking "holy smokes, he's gonna be totally evil..." and then the hood came off and I chuckled. Kinda ruined the moment for me.

[addabox]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 I was like "is that Gary Busey trying to be all goth?"

Now I can't unsee that. I'm going to laugh every time they show him.

[psmith2.0]

[Naderfan]

So how was the hacker/exterminator's plan supposed to work? Did they really think no one would recognize that girl?

[psmith2.0]

I know. That was a bit silly. But I liked how Mr. Fitzwilliams stepped up and did the right thing. May be too little too late, but I'm glad he disobeyed Mr. Palmer.

BTW, vampire Kelly is kinda hot. After eight-plus weeks of her being either witchy or bland, now she's a bit interesting and fun to watch as she changes.

Wasn't my favorite episode tonight (a bit slow, low-key), but it kinda moved things along. I believe there are just two more episodes left, right?

[addabox]

I now have someone to hate more than CDC mopey girl: goth hacker girl. She's realized that she's complicit in the end of the world and she decides to go with getting bitchy about how the olds are cramping her style. Yeah, I know, she's working out her guilt, but anyone who isn't the worst fucking person in the world at this point does the standup thing and says "Hey guys, I fucked up hugely and I can never make it right but from here on out I'll do whatever's necessary."

I do like that fairly significant characters are getting vamped, including kids. I mean, nothing against kids, but not pulling some of those punches helps drive home the real horror of the thing.

One thing that's gradually getting amusing is that every night scene has a continual soundtrack of screams, police alarms, glass breaking, and general mayhem. And yet we're still seeing New Yorkers going about their business, all but dodging the ever growing numbers of lurching, slug vomiting monsters.

[psmith2.0]

Originally Posted by addabox I do like that fairly significant characters are getting vamped, including kids. I mean, nothing against kids, but not pulling some of those punches helps drive home the real horror of the thing.

Exactly. This show isn't leaving anyone safe. It's not often you see a lead character pop a kid in the head with a 9mm either, vampire or not. I was like "damn, FX is gonna get a few letters...". These idiots keep walking down into basements! This was at least the fourth basement scene I can recall, and they're all creepy as can be.

Originally Posted by addabox One thing that's gradually getting amusing is that every night scene has a continual soundtrack of screams, police alarms, glass breaking, and general mayhem. And yet we're still seeing New Yorkers going about their business, all but dodging the every growing numbers of lurching, slug vomiting monsters.

That couple that came walking past Kelly (when she could see their heartbeat/circulatory system)...they don't know how lucky they were, because there was also a hoodie-sporting vampire walking behind them as they approached Kelly. How they weren't eaten right there and there, from two angles, is a miracle.

[psmith2.0]

Gonna give this Gotham show a watch tonight, at 8pm on Fox. I don't expect much (hard to do a Batman thing, without Batman), but some of the reviews have been positive and interesting. It's a prequel (what isn't these days...), set back when Jim Gordon was a cop and investigating the Wayne's murder (young Bruce appears, from what I've read, as well as a younger Alfred Pennyworth).

But I guess this is all the build-up to "before Batman came to town". Could go either way, but I'm certainly willing to check out this first episode and go from there.

Looks like Oswald Cobblepot, Selina Kyle and Edward Nygma all factor in, in their younger forms. As well as a girl-aged Poison Ivy(?) and Gordon's corrupt party, Harvey Bullock.

No word on any Harvey Dent or Joker presence, but if the show sticks around for a while, maybe they'll get worked in.

Oh, and Jada Pinkett Smith - who I've crushed on for well over a decade now - has a role as a mob boss, so that might be interesting.

I almost hope I don't like it because...well, I'm just not a TV guy and I don't like feeling I have to "carve out time" or invest in stuff. I hate all that, I really do. I've done The Strain this summer, but it's on Sunday nights at 10pm...which is the slot I'd normally be watching something over on AMC with zombies. But now that The Walking Dead is returning in a few weeks (and The Strain is down to its final two episodes), I'd like to just focus on it and have that one show to look forward to. I can't do the "watch all the hot shows, seven nights a week" thing...I just don't like most shows, honestly.

But I'm a Batman kinda guy, so a show about his hometown - even if he's not in it - is enough to pull me in. At least for the premiere episode! But I don't mind being pleasantly surprised by something, so maybe Gotham will do that. At some point, years from now (or if they jump ahead in time, season to season) there will need to be a payoff...we'll need to see someone donning a grey/black suit, cape and a bad-ass cowl while glaring at the camera.

[addabox]

Is there some main person in charge of DC's television stuff? I guess more generally, does DC have a Marvel style game-plan where everything is feeding into everything else? I get the impression that, so far, not so much. They're just sort of doodling around with the more mainstream aspects of their mythos-- Superman, Batman, Green Arrow, I guess some Justice League action coming up? Like it just occurred to them that that works, and they're sort of retconning what they've done so far in service of some kind of ad hoc big picture.

I guess the general thinking is that DC does better at TV (Arrow gets some good reviews, Smallville had its fans) whereas Marvel has the movie thing wrapped up. But now Marvel has 4 series in production straight to Netflix, which is pretty exciting. They get to do whatever they want without worrying about network execs (my take on the DC TV stuff is that it's just terminally network TV, at a time when we've all seen comic book properties treated really, really well).

So that's my concern about Gotham-- it might have an interesting premise or some good performances or some engaging story arcs, but these days "network TV" just isn't good enough. You can always feel the suits hedging their bets, taking the safe path, pandering......

Even Agents of Shield, with it's hugely successful pedigree and Josh Whedon's guiding hand and MU tie ins has felt, just..... neutered. Bland. Got better towards the end of the season, and the new free range team, post Winter Soldier, might be lots better. But I can't help but wonder what kind of show it would have been on cable. Doesn't have to be "dark", just not so..... family tested. Disney/ABC frictionless.

[psmith2.0]

Originally Posted by addabox Is there some main person in charge of DC's television stuff?

If there is, he/she obviously has a serious drinking problem.

Originally Posted by addabox I guess more generally, does DC have a Marvel style game-plan where everything is feeding into everything else?

I can't imagine so. The timelines don't match up, and the same people aren't involved. In this Gotham show, Bruce is about 10 or so (his parents just got killed). In the upcoming Ben Affleck vs. Brideshead Superman, Batman is said to have been "on the job" for a long time. Depending on who else shows up in this movie, it may conflict (or contrast weirdly) to any younger-skewing TV shows they've got going on.

It's almost like...nobody actually planned any of it.

As for Gotham, it was pretty good. I enjoyed it. It was like watching Law & Order (or one of its 22 spin-offs), with a touch of Batman Begins (the first 45 or so minutes of Batman Begins, specifically...Bruce is a boy, Alfred and Gordon are young(er), Gotham is an organized crime-ruled cesspool, Gotham PD has corruption issues, etc.). It was almost a bit too cameo/Easter egg-heavy, with a nudge-wink to fanboys about every seven minutes (Poison Ivy, Catwoman, Penguin, Riddler, Joker (there was a comedian auditioning on stage in a club, and telling obvious "jokes") and I'm sure there were other characters, locations or words that I didn't pick up on.

That whole "pearls hitting the ground in slo-mo" must be the stock go-to scene for the Wayne's murder, as it's been featured in every live-action depiction I've ever seen, including tonight on Gotham. This, oddly enough, was a little more brutal and accurate than how the murders were depicted in both Burton and Nolan's movies (where the murders were bloodless). Thomas and Martha Wayne were both shot in the chest, point-blank, and lying on the ground with open-eyed shocked, pained expressions as very real-looking (dark and runny) blood pooled on their chests and spread out on the ground below them. Grim stuff.

Selina Kyle saw this all take place - with a sad, stunned expression on her face - from a fire escape above the alley (and there was a scene toward the end of the episode with her perched on the wall surrounding Wayne manor). I assume she will attempt to befriend young Bruce, having seen his parents killed in front of him? The actress that plays her is 15. I've never seen her before and don't recognize her name. I wasn't sure what age range they were going for, but she seems a few years older than Bruce (she's obviously beyond 10). I feel bad because when I first saw her - knowing nothing about the actress - I thought "wow...very pretty" (assuming she was 20-something) and then just happened to look her up and see that she was born in 1999 in real life, and immediately looked out my window to make sure Chris Hansen and a Dateline NBC camera crew weren't pulling into my driveway.

So now that I'm aware, she's totally ugly and I don't know how the poor, hideous creature gets work! Ewwww.

(hey, honest mistake )

The Oswald Cobblepot character is probably the most interesting. Seems quite creepy and twisted, almost like something out of a Burton movie. In fact, I was thinking "I think I've seen Depp doing this sort of thing...". This character may wind up having the most interesting arc, so it'll be fun to see how this turns out. There was a direct reference to his physical appearance (a beak-ish nose) by someone calling him a "penguin", which really upset him. On the promos for next week, he's shown hitchhiking on a road far from town (long story), suffering from a leg injury that ties in with it all and causing him to waddle like...well, you know. Two guys who pick him up mention this in passing and I don't think it's going to end well for them.

They seem to be patterning the Alfred character more after Michael Caine's ex-special forces hard-case (or is that now in comics as well?) as opposed to a stiff, posh old man as he's often portrayed. He talks in a bit of a raspy hiss and says "mate" a lot, so all I could think was "hey, Bruce Wayne is going to be raised by Jason Statham!"

Lots more going on - Jim Gordon's fiancé Barbara, who is, at the very least, bisexual and was in a past relationship with a female officer on Gotham's major case squad, Edward Nygma appears to be working for the Gotham PD and seems to be filling the role of "quirky, annoying crime scene/forensics tech" that is required casting for any police show these days (goth, nerdy, edgy, punk-y, etc.)...he has an annoying habit of talking in questions/riddles and answering questions with more questions, and...well, you see where this is going, Gordon's partner is a bit of lowlife, Jada Pinkett Smith might be chewing the scenery a little too much in her role and Carmine Falcone puts in an appearance and is obviously running the town/police/judges...he's a "businessman", of course.

I'll definitely tune in next week because I liked what I saw tonight enough to bring me back. As with The Strain, which I've stayed with and enjoyed these past 10 weeks, I'll just play it week-to-week and see.

One note, from a production standpoint...the establishing shots on this show are pretty awesome. Both daytime and nighttime, the cityscapes and skyline footage is really something. I don't know if it's CGI or they're flying a camera among some buildings of an existing city (or perhaps a combination of the two), but these are some gorgeous shots of a city. I don't recognize any particular landmarks, but I've also not been to every city in the U.S. There are a couple of far away establishing shows that were very close to the "huge and surrounded by water" Gotham we got from Christopher Nolan. But on more of the "you're in downtown" shots, you got great details, perspective, nice shapes, neon, etc. It's the kind of thing a show like this might snag a technical Emmy for, that's all I'm sayin'. Someone involved is paying attention, and doing some nice work on that front. Halfway in, I found myself looking forward to scene transitions or establishing shots, just to get some more shots of that skyline/cityscapes. Cinematic production value, on a TV budget!

[addabox]

That's good to hear. Maybe DC is breaking their TV mold here a bit, going with the weirdos and the noir and whatnot.

I've never been able to get into other DC shows (Smallville, Arrow I guess mainly) because they seemed so WB-- you know, cast nothing but impossibly beautiful 20 somethings and let them smolder at each other for a season while working in a little plot arc between hookups. They always go origins because that way everybody can be 18-21. That's the pandering I mentioned above, they're just so working to a lucrative demographic. Gotham sounds a bit different, hot 15 year olds notwithstanding. I mean, how sexy can Oswald Cobblepot be? God, wouldn't that be horrible-- all of Batman's enemies when they were young and hawt! Watch the Joker hook up with Cat Woman! As teenagers!

[psmith2.0]

No, it's pretty grownup. It's not one of those "good-looking 20-something" type shows, as far as I can tell.

[kieran]

I DVRd Gotham to watch tonight. I love all of the comic book stuff out in recent years and a new take on the Batman story is right up my alley.

[_Ω_]

Anybody watching Utopia?

Just started and only a few episodes in and wondering if it goes downhill - been good so far!

[psmith2.0]

Watched the final episode of this season 1(?) run of The Strain last night. I almost don't feel sorry for any of these people because on about three occasions - when they had the villain(s) dead-to-rights and only needed to swing a word or make a stabbing motion - they stand there and speechify for a few seconds, allowing...well, nothing really gets solved or fixed.



So they can all die now, for all I care. People that stupid probably shouldn't be allowed to stick around, with all the chances they blew (and not just last night, but, frankly, throughout the entire 12 episodes).

[Naderfan]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Watched the final episode of this season 1(?) run of The Strain last night. I almost don't feel sorry for any of these people because on about three occasions - when they had the villain(s) dead-to-rights and only needed to swing a word or making a stabbing motion - they stand there and speechify for a few seconds, allowing...well, nothing really gets solved or fixed. So they can all die now, for all I care. People that stupid probably shouldn't be allowed to stick around, with all the chances they blew (and not just last night, but, frankly, throughout the entire 12 episodes).

This was my feeling exactly!! Several times I yelled at the TV "What the hell are you waiting for?!" and I'm usually not the type of person who tries to give advice to TV characters.

I mean, I didn't expect the vampire apocalypse to end here - obviously there's a second season, so we still need a story. But let that be to overwhelming power/cunning, not stupid monologuing.

[psmith2.0]

Exactly. Twice, in less than 30 seconds, they could've killed the Master. But the old man has to share/announce some sort of "mission statement" before he does the deed. And then they knock him outside, into the sun. He's obviously weakened and hurting (he's smoking and screaming, so you know he's not at 100% strength) and the old man and Eph just kinda stand there for about 5-10 second, looking at him. All of them - including the kid - should've been wailing away on him with their swords the minute he tumbled out of that window.

I truly thought "awesome...pay off time! Kill him...do it!"

And when he crawled down the side of the building and got away, my heart just sank and I thought "none of you goobers deserve to live now...if you're going to be that stupid and lame, I'm just gonna start rooting for the vampires, going forward." At least they seem to have a clue and and act with some decisiveness and purpose.

And speaking of "stupid and lame", how many times was Hard-case Gus gonna try to attack that "good" vampire? Even after the guy made it clear he wasn't looking to kill or hurt Gus, and after the first 1-2 attempts were total failures )and it's beyond obvious Gus is no match for this guy). I think he made three attempts to punch him or whatever. I like how that guy said "don't do that again", but Gus, being Gus...does it again. Idiot.

Then again...yo, homey, he's all hard an' from da streets an' shit, knowwhatimsayin'?...of course he's gonna hit/shoot first and ask questions (or actually try to understand, or realize, anything) later. How else do people like him ensure that they're either dead or in prison before they're 30?

"Yo, bein' this way has worked out great for my Pops, all my brothers, uncles, cousins, neighbors and friends! They'd all be here, fightin' right beside me...you know, except for all that 'bein' dead or in jail' shit!"

[Yontsey]

Anyone watch American Horror Story: Freakshow last night? So good. I think this has the potential to be the best season so far. Jessica Lange is so good in these roles.

[kieran]

I DVRd it. Haven't watched it as of yet. Planning to get to it soon. Good to hear it was a good start.

In other news, which I'm sure Scates already knows, I just saw a tweet about Jayne Mansfield dying by crashing into a tractor trailer and how they're required to have bars on them now. In the story, it mentions her daughter, Mariska Hargitay, aka Olivia Benson in Law and Order SVU. Totally did not know that and I love that show.

[psmith2.0]

Yep, that's her mom. And her dad was Mickey Hargitay, a former Mr. Universe (and actor). She was genetically destined to be hot...she had no choice.

[thegeriatric]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Yep, that's her mom. And her dad was Mickey Hargitay, a former Mr. Universe (and actor). She was genetically destined to be hot...she had no choice.

Not that you're biased or anything!! (Mariska's Monkey)

[murbot]

She's the only reason I watch SVU with my wife, and definitely on my celebrity 5 free pass list!

[addabox]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Exactly. Twice, in less than 30 seconds, they could've killed the Master. But the old man has to share/announce some sort of "mission statement" before he does the deed. And then they knock him outside, into the sun. He's obviously weakened and hurting (he's smoking and screaming, so you know he's not at 100% strength) and the old man and Eph just kinda stand there for about 5-10 second, looking at him. All of them - including the kid - should've been wailing away on him with their swords the minute he tumbled out of that window. I truly thought "awesome...pay off time! Kill him...do it!" And when he crawled down the side of the building and got away, my heart just sank and I thought "none of you goobers deserve to live now...if you're going to be that stupid and lame, I'm just gonna start rooting for the vampires, going forward." At least they seem to have a clue and and act with some decisiveness and purpose. And speaking of "stupid and lame", how many times was Hard-case Gus gonna try to attack that "good" vampire? Even after the guy made it clear he wasn't looking to kill or hurt Gus, and after the first 1-2 attempts were total failures )and it's beyond obvious Gus is no match for this guy). I think he made three attempts to punch him or whatever. I like how that guy said "don't do that again", but Gus, being Gus...does it again. Idiot. Then again...yo, homey, he's all hard an' from da streets an' shit, knowwhatimsayin'?...of course he's gonna hit/shoot first and ask questions (or actually try to understand, or realize, anything) later. How else do people like him ensure that they're either dead or in prison before they're 30? "Yo, bein' this way has worked out great for my Pops, all my brothers, uncles, cousins, neighbors and friends! They'd all be here, fightin' right beside me...you know, except for all that 'bein' dead or in jail' shit!"

There should be a mandatory screenwriting class required of anyone working in television: "Creating Characters That Don't Act Like Fucking Idiots All the Goddamn Time 101." I've bailed on so many shows because, although conceptually promising, they immediately foundered on the idea that "conflict" is this thing that can be larded onto scripts like MSG to make it tastier. Never mind what's going on in your apocalyptic, mystery laden post-Lost universe, never mind how urgent the task at hand or how overwhelming the facts on the ground, there's never a bad time for some pointless bickering or "back story" animosities or a character so imperviously stupid or irritating or obsessively fixated on their one defining quality that we can't bring the proceedings to a screeching halt and listen to them hold forth. Yes, we get that you hate it when your brother calls you "Skeeter" and that he never really respected you and Daddy loved him more but THERE ARE FUCKING MONSTERS ERUPTING OUT OF THE GROUND AND THE SUN HAS GONE OUT MAYBE SOME PERSPECTIVE WOULD BE NICE.

And yeah, I get that TV shows are generally character driven and no matter how clever your setup we won't watch if you don't flesh them out. But the stuff that happens these days? It's not fleshing out. It's a grab bag of "quirks" and "issues" that are generic as they come, are applied without any discernible plan or nuance or consistency, and just generally act as motivation for random yelling that goes on way too long and serves as some kind of fucked up imitation of "drama" or "intensity."

So, Strain, fucking get it together. You have a fun premise and a reasonably talented cast. You also have a crew of one note idiots: Not a Team Player Rat Boy, I Can't Believe This Is Happening It Bums Me Out SO MUCH CDC lady, Cranky Goth You Ain't The Boss of Me Hacker Girl, I Am Driven By Ancient Animosities Really Old Van Helsing, and Mildly Exasperated Do We Even Have a Plan wig dude. Oh, and I May Actually Be Retarded Kid It Will Be a Miracle If I Don't Get Someone Killed.

I tired to watch whatever that "everybody passes out and sees the future" thing a few years ago. It was clinically stupid in just this way-- like they had recycled soap opera scripts and just stuck in high concept sci-fi shit at the last minute. Life's too short. Fuck off, lazy writers.

[psmith2.0]

That's really been my only complaint about The Strain. The premise is neat, it has a good look and hits those gross, creepy notes as needed. Whoever's doing the sets, makeup, lighting and other production-oriented jobs seem competent and creative. I've just never seen so many useless, dumb-ass (and, frankly, unlikeable) characters assembled on one TV show. It's gotta be some kind of record, wouldn't you think?

Most TV shows (dramas, sitcoms, sci-fi, soaps, etc.) have at least 1-2 incompetent morons or off-putting jerks among the characters (either for comic relief or for someone to boo/root against). But when you make your entire cast that way, there's really nowhere else to go. By episode 7, I kinda found myself thinking "so what if they all get eaten...they've not done anything smart or sensible to avoid or prevent it, despite all their opportunities."

The final 10-15 minutes of Sunday's episode just reached a new level of aggravation for me.

When that old coot stood there and started up with all his "I've waited for this moment for..." nonsense, I immediately knew "this fool is gonna jibber-jabber himself into failure and defeat". Sure enough. I've liked Setrakian this entire time (his backstory, the mystery, his drive, etc.). But come last Sunday night, I just came to see him as much of an unprepared idiot as the others (despite all his lecturing and finger-wagging for 11-12 episodes). You blew it, gramps...you had your lifelong enemy at your knees, weakened and vulnerable, and you start up with your soliloquy, allowing him to (once again) get away.

Gus, I liked at the start just because he was tough, but was good to his mother and protected her. It was neat to see a Hard-Case from 'da Streetz™ have that side to him. But after about five episodes of him wanting to fight, threaten and intimidate everyone he came in contact with ("Yo, ice cream man...you best be puttin' some mo' sprinkles on this, bitch!", "Yo, UPS driver...what brown can do for me is suck my dick, homey!", etc.) it just got a little old and obnoxious. Someone that much of an angry, hate-the-world hard-case/bad-ass 24/7 in real life would probably explode or something. I'm like "okay, we get it...you're the resident Tough Guy. Dial it down about 11-12 notches, slick...you're barely tolerable at this point, and I'm starting to want to see you get eaten."

The show, when it should've been at its absolute best (the final two episodes), actually went in the completely opposite direction in many ways (including off the rails).

[psmith2.0]

But all that doesn't matter, because The Walking Dead is back this Sunday. Terminus, boxcar, buried weapons, those weirdo people, Maggie all sweaty, crossbows and katanas back in action, Rick shooting people, Carl in that stupid hat, Carol doing whatever it takes...

I can't wait!

[Eugene]

Gotham seems 'ok' so far, but I wonder how far they can stretch the history of these proto-characters.

I also can't shake the fact that Jim Gordon was also Ryan Atwood in the OC and Ben Sherman in Southland...the background there is too perfect.

"Lfe headed in the wrong direction, kicked out by his deadbeat mom, a young James Gordon is taken in by his public defender, a wealthy Jewish man who lives in Orange County with his wife and awkward son. As a result of this gesture, he too decides to become a public servant. Gordon joins the LAPD, but finds dealing with west-coast gangland tiresome. Eventually he heads east to Gotham on a personal crusade to root out corruption in the system and meets a boy with no family..."