[Matsu]

Isn't a feature of thunderbolt/lightening ports that the devices can be daisy chained? So long as device has two ports you just plug each into the next on the chain. I've never actually used it this way, and maybe not that many devices support it properly or even come with a second port for cost reasons, but that would certainly help clutter if used with a selection of appropriately short cords...

[kscherer]

There aren't a whole lot of those things out there. TB daisy-chaining is the best thing going, but it's expensive, so not much of it to chose from.

[709]

Originally Posted by PB PM The iMac Pro was a stop gap measure to slow the bleed of pro users, I don’t see it staying around long.

"Apple appears to be on the verge of discontinuing the iMac Pro".

[edit]: Apple confirms in a follow-up article.

[Matsu]

I wonder how these old intel iMacs would serve as windows machines?

[PB PM]

Not too bad is my bet. I find the older machines (2009-2012) run better in Windows 10 than the most modern versions of Mac OS they support in terms of speed and responsiveness overall. Mac OS seems to be much harder on old hardware than Windows, different philosophies of OS design. Apple is always pushing forward with the latest and greatest stuff, which is great when you are using the hardware for 3-5 years, but beyond that it’s not so good as they drop support for things that were designed for that older hardware. MS always pushes legacy support, sometimes too much, but it is beneficial for older hardware.

Some examples, when Apple dropped OpenGL as supported graphics drivers, older machines took a big performance hit since they didn’t work with the new APIs. Windows uses DirectX with extensive support for older hardware, so it’s a non-issue. Apple’s response to Spector and Meltdown patches also seemed to hit performance far more in Mac OS than what MS did in Windows.

[Frank777]

The most interesting thing about the iMac Pro cancellation is the timing.

I've been thinking the Pro Apple Silicon machines will get introduced at WWDC and debut in the early fall.

If a professional Mac is being EOL'd in early March, does that confirm at WWDC announcement or a Spring Apple Event?

[Frank777]

And maybe this also brings Space Gray options to the upper levels of the iMac line?

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by Frank777 If a professional Mac is being EOL'd in early March, does that confirm at WWDC announcement or a Spring Apple Event?

The only thing it confirms is that the iMac Pro was a stop-gap system prior to the current Mac Pro tower, but we already knew this. It will not likely be replaced.

Besides, the current MacBook Air makes that thing look silly in just about every way (other than top-of-the-Mac-line GPU performance). The next iMac, whatever it is, is going to dance Road Runner-level circles around it, so why keep selling it?

I suspect WWDC is the next event that will see more M-series machines. Total redesigns of the iMac and MacBook Pro. Then an M2-based Air and Mini in the fall, and the Mac Pro at WWDC next year with the M2X Pro chip. Then we will be on a regular, annual cycle where the low-end systems are updated first with M chips, and then the middle tier with Mx chips, and then the big daddy with Mx Pro chips.

I am predicting a chip line something like M, Mx, and Mx Pro, like this:

MacBook Air, 21-ish iMac, and Mac Mini: M

MacBook Pro, 27-ish iMac, Mac Mini Pro: Mx

Mac Pro: Mx Pro

This year the 27" Intel iMacs will hang around while their eventual replacements get Mx processors, and the 21" model will be completely replaced with an M version. The 13" Intel MacBook Pro will stick around while the 13" M version is replaced with a 14" Mx version; the 16" Intel MacBook Pro will be replaced with an Mx version, and next year the Mac Pro will be replaced with an Mx Pro version. The differences in the chips will be in core counts, RAM support, and PCIe slot support.

At least that's what I'm hoping for. I think Apple needs to hang on to a couple Intel things for another year to support the Windows hanger-ons, but I suspect it will go away sooner rather than leter. Either Microsoft licenses Windows for ARM, or Macs dump it altogether and good riddance.

But I'm just stabbing around a bit.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by Frank777 The most interesting thing about the iMac Pro cancellation is the timing.

https://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/...inuation_1.png

Intel discontinued the CPU, so Apple can’t order more parts. That’s all this is.

(Why didn’t Apple upgrade to a newer CPU? That’s more complicated.)

[kscherer]

As of this morning, we have been told that the 21" 4K 512GB SSD and 1TB SSD options are no longer available for order.

So, is it due to a component shortage, or is a rev imminent? Hmmm …

And what about this thought: The 27" iMac Intel machines hang around for another 6 months to a year, and the 2021 iMac revs to a 24" 5k screen in 5 colors, and that's it. No 21", no 27", just a single 24" option in 5 colors. Perhaps a processor option: M1 is standard in 8GB and 16GB models, and the M1X is optional in 16GB and 32GB models?

Just a thought.

[PB PM]

My guess is the chip shortages, but it could be a sign of a new model too. Really hard to tell right now.

[kscherer]

The 256GB models are still available and shipping rather quickly. Naturally Apple does not say why, so we have to guess.

[turtle]

I'd lean toward chips given the 256GB are still around.

[Frank777]

Originally Posted by kscherer As of this morning, we have been told that the 21" 4K 512GB SSD and 1TB SSD options are no longer available for order. So, is it due to a component shortage, or is a rev imminent? Hmmm … And what about this thought: The 27" iMac Intel machines hang around for another 6 months to a year, and the 2021 iMac revs to a 24" 5k screen in 5 colors, and that's it. No 21", no 27", just a single 24" option in 5 colors. Perhaps a processor option: M1 is standard in 8GB and 16GB models, and the M1X is optional in 16GB and 32GB models? Just a thought.

That would mean asking 27" users to settle for a lower-end machine, meaning Apple would be leaving money on the table.

Apple does not leave money on the table.

[chucker]

Apple leaves money on the table all the time. By not updating the 16-inch MBP for a year and a half (and counting), for example. Their beefiest laptop, stuck on a two-generations-old Intel CPU.

[Frank777]

Originally Posted by chucker Apple leaves money on the table all the time. By not updating the 16-inch MBP for a year and a half (and counting), for example. Their beefiest laptop, stuck on a two-generations-old Intel CPU.

Yes, but that's just a reflection of the transition to M1X (or whatever they call it.)

They're biding their time until the big unveil is ready. They're not going to update a mid-range MBP and then suggest their high-end customers buy that instead.

Sending 27" iMac customers down to a 24" model is upside-down for Apple. They would more likely release the larger size at a premium price, and tell the 21" customers there's a big chip shortage and to cool their jets in the meantime.

[Frank777]

Of course, today Apple pulled the higher end configs of the 21" iMac and left the lower end ones available.

So there's always the chance I have no idea what's actually going on.

[Frank777]

There's another report of a bigger iMac coming soon.

The new Apple Silicon iMacs could release in April. But if they do arrive mid-to-late April, won't most of us wait anyway to see what's announced at WWDC in early June before hitting the Buy button?

[PB PM]

WWDC doesn’t tend to have hardware launches, unless it’s a Pro model. I don’t see Apple refreshing the iMac Pro, and the Mac Pro isn’t going to be priced anything like an iMac, not something I’d wait for.

Even if the launch the new iMacs I suspect supply will be limited, due to issues outside of Apple’s control. I don’t know that I could see them launching the iMac models at different times.

[chucker]

It’d be rare to announce some Macs in April and then more Macs just two months later.

[kscherer]

1) The iMac Pro is done, and will not be returning. It was a stop-gap, and we all know that.

2) The next iMac with an M1x will blow the doors off of everything that Apple is currently doing, including the Intel Mac Pro.

3) The M2x Pro Mac Pro is next year on the early side.

4) When the M2x Pro* Mac Pro does launch, it will blow the doors off of … well … everything else.

5) New iMacs are imminent, but in the Apple world that could be April, WWDC in June, December, or Tuesday.

6) I can't %^$# wait!

* I am using M2X Pro because by the time the Mac Pro launches, we will be into the 2nd generation M-series, and the Mac Pro will use a very special version of the chip (or 2-4 of them) rather than the Mx itself.

[Frank777]

Given that the 30" iMac is likely to be a lovechild between the M1 iMac and the just-announced M1 Pro/Max MacBook Pro, and everything's out in the open now, I'm guessing we'll see the larger screen iMac in January.

[turtle]

Seems logical we could see an event for all the other desktop lineup next month. I mean, they let us know about the M1 Pro and Max so if they have already got the hardware lined up, it would make sense. A new mini, Mac Pro and iMac would really end the year with a bang for them. Otherwise, yeah I could see it being January.

[psmith2.0]

Interesting tidbit re: the upcoming larger iMac.

Spoiler alert: it may not be the size we’ve expected/assumed. Hmmm…

[chucker]

I don't buy that.

If they make the bezel slimmer, which seems safe to assume in a design overhaul, they can either keep the case the same (which would make the display larger than 27 inches), or make the case smaller. But if they do the latter, it's rather close to the 24-inch. Which seems unnecessary and inconsistent — the 24-inch just moved way up from the previous 20 inches, so I think it's safe to assume we'll see something in the ballpark of 29-32 inches.

(Unless we're not seeing a bigger model at all, and instead the 24 gets iMac and iMac Pro tiers.)

[turtle]

I do believe the next high end iMac will have the ProMotion and XDR branding. It just makes sense. What size will it be? I'm leaning to the 30" myself. I don't really follow the iMac line though so I could be completely wrong.

[psmith2.0]

Originally Posted by chucker I don't buy that.

I don't either. I always assumed the 27", like the 21.5", would also go up a few inches as well, to 30" or whatever makes sense (29.5", etc. I don't know how displays are made...everyone rounds up).

Unless the idea of 30" AIO was just so insanely expensive that they figured nobody would ever buy it?

I never considered that until just right now.


PS - The 24" moved up from the 21.5" iMac, but it's really "only" 23.5", so, naming aside, it really only increased two inches (the naming makes it seems more like three, with the "21" and "24" involved).

People would squawk, but I actually kinda like the idea of two two tiers of 24"...consumer and pro. But they wouldn't want to be seen as "coming down", size-wise, and owners of 27" iMacs (who are expecting something even larger eventually) would absolutely freak and lose their minds/riot.

I think there must be a larger iMac coming, and, like you, having it stay at 27" just seems odd/pointless...needs a bigger gap and 3" just doesn't seem like enough of a differentiation. Even if it just goes up to 29.5" (but they'll certainly call it 30"). Which makes me wonder why they spent years calling that 21.5" iMac that vs. 22"? They're calling the 23.5" iMac "24" after all? But they've always rounded down to a whole number on the notebooks as well: 13.3" MacBooks called "13-inch", the 15.4" MacBook Pros over the years always just called "15". But, for whatever reasons, they always called that smaller aluminum iMac "21.5", with the decimal, and didn't round up (or down) to 21 or 22. Interesting.

Interesting as in "Apple often makes zero sense in the things they do".

As cool/exciting as 2021 has been on several Mac-related fronts, I gotta think 2022 is shaping up to be even more so...a new, redesigned Air (keeping the name or not), a larger iMac (and how they'll position/market/price it...larger 24" with colors, or strictly $1,999+ "pro" in Space Boring™ ? And what about updates to the Mac mini and 24" iMac? And, of course, whatever they decide to do with the Mac Pro tower (including shooting it out of a cannon into the ocean and abandoning the idea/market completely after decades). We assume there's yet another effort on the pro tower coming...no evidence or guarantee of that, IMO. I could see it going either way, I truly could.

I could see Tim's Apple take the hit on the pissed-off pros, knowing it's made up by the iPhone/iPad/music consumers. I hope it doesn't happen, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if/when it does.

IMO, they've not done anything right on this product in a long time. Are they out of ideas? Tired of trying? Morally opposed to just going back to a sensibly-sized/priced tower that mortals can also afford? Will be see $1,199 Wheels Max™ in 2022 ("Now Even Rollier.")? I never want/plan to own one, but I find the Mac Pro tower saga so interesting/funny to follow. I almost look forward to seeing what, if anything, they do just because I know there's a solid 50/50 chance of some good chuckles/entertainment (see earlier "wheels" jab).

If Monday is anything to go by, I'm guessing a new M1 Pro/Max/Extreme/OMG-equipped Mac Pro starting at about $7,499, thereby ensuring nobody normal ever buys one.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by psmith2.0 Unless the idea of 30" AIO was just so insanely expensive that they figured nobody would ever buy it?

Have you met the iMac Pro?

Originally Posted by psmith2.0 PS - The 24" moved up from the 21.5" iMac, but it's really "only" 23.5", so, naming aside, it really only increased two inches (the naming makes it seems more like three, with the "21" and "24" involved).

Oh yeah. I thought it was 20, but it's apparently been those weird 21.5 inches since 2009. Oops.

Originally Posted by psmith2.0 Which makes me wonder why they spent years calling that 21.5" iMac that vs. 22"? They're calling the 23.5" iMac "24" after all? But they've always rounded down to a whole number on the notebooks as well: 13.3" MacBooks called "13-inch", the 15.4" MacBook Pros over the years always just called "15". But, for whatever reasons, they always called that smaller aluminum iMac "21.5", with the decimal, and didn't round up (or down) to 21 or 22. Interesting.

Well, they also went with "9.7-inch iPad Pro" and "12.9-inch iPad Pro". Why? It's OK to round those up!

Originally Posted by psmith2.0 Interesting as in "Apple often makes zero sense in the things they do".

Yep.

Originally Posted by psmith2.0 I could see Tim's Apple take the hit on the pissed-off pros, knowing it's made up by the iPhone/iPad/music consumers. I hope it doesn't happen, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if/when it does. IMO, they've not done anything right on this product in a long time. Are they out of ideas? Tired of trying? Morally opposed to just going back to a sensibly-sized/priced tower that mortals can also afford? Will be see $1,199 Wheels Max™ in 2022 ("Now Even Rollier.")? I never want/plan to own one, but I find the Mac Pro tower saga so interesting/funny to follow. I almost look forward to seeing what, if anything, they do just because I know there's a solid 50/50 chance of some good chuckles/entertainment (see earlier "wheels" jab). If Monday is anything to go by, I'm guessing a new M1 Pro/Max/Extreme/OMG-equipped Mac Pro starting at about $7,499, thereby ensuring nobody normal ever buys one.

I just think it's hard, institutionally, for Apple to get excited about… a desktop tower. Blech. Anyone can make those, and they're a shrinking (almost disappearing) market segment.

However, as long as Apple is unwilling to license macOS (and they probably should be), there will remain weird niches that they need to offer something for, even if they'd rather not.

[Frank777]

This smells like a controlled leak to me. Confirm a machine is coming, but underpromise/overdeliver on the specs.

[psmith2.0]

Originally Posted by chucker Have you met the iMac Pro?

I have indeed. But have you noticed it ain't around anymore either? Did anyone actually buy one? It came and went like a thief in the night! I think that last round of 27" iMac updates make it kinda pointless, so away it went. I always saw it as a not-long-for-this-world placeholder anyway.

Oh yeah. I thought it was 20, but it's apparently been those weird 21.5 inches since 2009. Oops.

Yeah, that first round of aluminum/glass iMacs that came out in August 2007 is what I had (the mid-range 20")...it was in 20" and 24", then up to 21.5" and 27" a few years later...and stayed that way for 11,000 years.

Well, they also went with "9.7-inch iPad Pro" and "12.9-inch iPad Pro". Why? It's OK to round those up!

Exactly. I'd just call them 10" and 13" iPad Pros. They're inconsistent sometimes, in how they name/position things. I guess they have their reasons.

I just think it's hard, institutionally, for Apple to get excited about… a desktop tower. Blech. Anyone can make those, and they're a shrinking (almost disappearing) market segment. However, as long as Apple is unwilling to license macOS (and they probably should be), there will remain weird niches that they need to offer something for, even if they'd rather not.

That's why I set it off completely in that little mockup/infographic I did a month or two ago, where the pro tower just kinda sits off on its own little niche, for a particular set of customers/users. The Mac mini, iMac and MacBook (both "regular" and "pro" versions of each) form the meat-n-taters of Apple's Mac lineup.

Hopefully the notebook thing will soon be in place with a redesigned, next-gen Air. And if those rumors are anything to go on, they could soon drop the Pro/Max stuff into a larger, modified mini-like chassis and have the mid-range headless desktop that's "pro enough" for gazillions of users. And the iMac may be split into a consumer and a pro offering (based on sizing and AS). Those six products - along with all their RAM/SSD/Core BTO options - would probably serve 85-90% of the Mac-using public.

If they want to create a super-expensive, zero-compromise full-tilt, customizable/explandable tower for that remaining 10-15%, by all means...have at it! I don't care. I just pay attention for the wheels.

I do think a mid-range headless, done right, would pretty much be a tower killer for many. Maybe that's how they get back into the sub-$3,000 pro desktop market...put the M1 Pro/Max stuff into something smaller than a huge tower, but offer generous RAM, storage and core options, knowing that would satisfy thousands of users. They'd have something to offer in that ~$1,500-3,000* space again, as they did for years and years (G3, G4, G5 and Mac Pro towers). There's "high end" and then there's "ridiculously high-end". Currently they're only serving/catering to the latter.


*If they can sell a 14" notebook starting at $1,999 with the M1 Pro in it, then, once you remove that nice, high-end display, camera and related sensors, keyboard, battery and any other portable-specific features/components, then that's surely going to bring things down to $1,500-1,700...right around where those towers of yore always started. Plenty of space in that $1,500-3,500 range to play in.

It's a "want to" thing for them. But their "want to" effectively told that $1,500-3,000 bread-and-butter crowd to go kiss it on Main Street, as Apple opted to head uptown to the land of overkill and $6,000+ towers. They could've done both, but they abandoned one base to chase another.

I would love to see/know the sales numbers on the Mac Pro (and that accompanying display)!