[FFL]

The latest sign of the decline of logic and rise of the victim mentality of America - teachers can't use red ink for correcting student's papers, because red is too stressful.

Of all the things that can make a person see red, school principal Gail Karwoski was not expecting parents to get huffy about, well, seeing red. At Daniels Farm Elementary School in Trumbull, Conn., Karwoski's teachers grade papers by giving examples of better answers for those students who make mistakes. But that approach meant the kids often found their work covered in red, the color that teachers long have used to grade work. Parents objected. Red writing, they said, was "stressful." The principal said teachers were just giving constructive advice and the color of ink used to convey that message should not matter. But some parents could not let it go. So the school put red on the blacklist. Blue and other colors are in.

http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/s...n_w ire_story

[Koodari]

I think the new rules will gather aggression inside kids, there should be a plan to let it out. Let the kids red ink any teacher-made correction they don't like. If the teacher blue-inks so much the kid feels he is getting "dissed" he should have a right to red-ink the teacher's Volvo.

[709]

But some parents could not let it go.

Indeed.

This whole fucking planet is becoming "stressful."

[murbot]

Next thing you know, they'll stop giving failing grades because it stresses the kids out.

Christ, my papers used to look like friggin' tampons, and I turned out fine. Not like I have anger issues or anything. Wait. Nevermind.

I wonder how I would have turned out if my teachers had used a nice pale blue to tell me I should take up ditch digging.

[curiousuburb]

Today's word, boys and girls, is pander... can you say pander?
No, it's not a bear.

[psmith2.0]

I give up. On everyone.



And murbot, your "next they'll stop giving failing grades" comment...I think we might already be there. You're not too far off on that.

I have friends who are teachers and one who works more in the system itself, and tales of horror/stupidity (and non-stop head-slapping stories that make you want to laugh AND cry) are all I ever hear from them.



Allow me to reveal what's "stressful" for kids: somehow managing to graduate - even though they're as dumb as a rock - and soon finding out that the second-shift Curly Fries Squad at Arby's is about as far as they can expect to go in life. They spent 12 years acting hard, running their mouths, showing off, laying out, skipping class, never turning in any work, telling teachers to go screw themselves, knocking up their girlfriend, getting the clap and - on top of it all - can't write, read, spell or do simple math (you know, the basic kind that lets you know if you have enough to pay the rent and light bill, instead of buying cigarettes and Ho-Ho's)



THERE'S your "stress". A red pen ain't shit.

In fact, if it'll spur (or shame) some of these "could go either way" types into getting their act together, good!

Probably aren't ENOUGH red pens used with these little goons...

[Kickaha]

No kidding.

My worst teacher *ever* was 5th grade. (Connie Nelson, Sunnyslope Elementary, Wenatchee WA, I hope you read this, you old bat.)

I was an advanced reader, and would rip through a dozen books a week or so from the public library. Usually, they were science texts.

She told me I couldn't bring them into the classroom anymore and read them when I was done with in-class work because "It might make the other kids feel bad that they can't read at that level."

I was instead supposed to just sit there, and stare at the walls.

She was also of the 'no child is ever *WRONG*' school, and nobody learned much of anything in her classes.

Lowest common denominator, anyone?

Such teachers should have their teaching licenses revoked.

[thegelding]

ha, i remember getting in an arguement with my 2nd grade teacher...she went around the room asking the children to name an animal...kids go, "dog", "cat", "elephant" etc etc...she comes to me and i say "man"....she goes, "no, name an animal"...so i say, "man is an animal"...she argued back and forth with me for some time...finally had to say, "am i a rock? are you a plant?" before she would give in....yikes

here in the medical field we get many very smart people, but we get our share of duds...but if a idiot makes it far enough to get to residency and does a rotation with us in pediatric cardiology and he/she can't go shit right, do you think we can fail them on this rotation??? not on your life....a failure on a rotation always leads to a lawsuit because we are trying to hurt their chance at a career...even a below average mark to med students doing a rotation will get threats of a lawsuit for the same reason...can be maddening...we always submit honest and true evaluations of students and residents...every time we have sent a below average one, they are sent back to us to redo...we are told to find something positive to say

that is very hard sometimes


g

[EmC]

What a bunch of garbage. I usually grade with two colors. One for mistakes and one for notation. Usually red for wrong answers or simple arithemetic mistakes and green or blue for stuff like a missing integral sign or dx. I never share a students paper with other students and I urge them to keep their grades to themselves.

Test in my classroom aren't the end all be all. If a student does bad on a test they ALWAYS have the option of retaking it. I take the time to make another test with the same material on it, because my job isn't to babysit for 8 hours a day. I am there to make sure they learn, if it takes them studying the material three times to be able to make a decent grade on the test then fine, now they know the material. When do I draw the line at retakes? I don't know, I have never had a student fail the third one.

The school I was student teaching at last year would not permit teachers to put a grade less than 60 on thier students report card. The administrators were afraid that they would loose funding or even their jobs.

It seems to me that the quality of education has gone down. We are so busy arguing about whether or not little Johnny can pray by the flag pole in the morning that we forget that that little Johnny can't even read the damn prayer.

I became a teacher because I felt that I didn't get the education that I deserved and wanted to make a difference. I know a lot of teachers that are in the field for the same reason. It becomes frustrating, and now I know why so many of my teachers acted like they had just given up. I know what goes on behind the scenes. The teachers hands are tied by the administration, who have their hands tied by the school board, who have their hands tied by the 2% of extreme left and right wing activists who seem to be the only people who show up to meetings and voice their opinion. Meanwhile the majority that are in the center get screwed.

So the lesson we need to take from this is that in order for us to make sure the whak-o's aren't in control is to got to the school board meetings, call your school board representatives and let them know that you will not let your child's education fall short because they are too busy arguing about the vending machine contracts.

[Banana]

I was stuck in a poor quality high school myself- I tried to get in college (it's called Running Start- but for those who are not familiar- it's to let high school juniors/seniors enroll in community college and earn both high school and college credits) but I failed enrollment tests first two times. Third time, I got in, finally. Though it was only two quarters, it was a big huge boost to my subsequenct college education.

That said, I had a retrospective look and was shocked to find out that-

The running start enrollment were in fact much much more higher than required for an adult wanting to go to college for oh say, continuing education and even for someone who decided to get another degree.

I could have had dropped out of high school at age 16, taken a GED, pass it, then enroll in college without all that hassle. In fact, I was enrolled in a summer college class few years before the Running Start test. They wouldn't even consider that fact.

To further infuriate this situation, I kept getting "Post High School" ranking in my yearly assessment tests from 8th Grade- and what they did? Nothing.

I do sympathize with the needs to help everyone along, but dumbing down education ain't the answer.

[kretara]

Ahhhhhh, New England, so glad I'm not up there anymore.
Sounds like uberliberals from Cambridge, Mass. have infected a new town.

[Kickaha]

Exactly. Here are my steps to fix the edumacation system:

1) Get rid of age-based requirements. Everyone has talents that progress at different rates and come out at different times. If a ten year old has an 8th grade math level, and a 1st grade reading level, let them run with the math, and give them the appropriate help with the reading. Yeah, I know, I know "but it'll make the older kids feeeeeeeel baaaaaad". Tough. The sooner people realize that we're *NOT* all interchangeable, the sooner people will be able to fulfill their own talents that they excel in.

2) Progress testing. Yeah, "no child left behind" and all that, but... left behind *how* if we don't artificially force (and retard) progression due to age? No letter grades, just % achieved on appropriate scales.

3) Teacher tenure? Gone. Regular testing of the teachers as well as the students. Prove that you're doing a good job in some way other than giving every student an A and passing them through to be the next teacher's problem.

4) Make the parents responsible for their child's progress. Schools aren't babysitters, don't expect them to be that for you. Get *ACTIVE* in your child's education for god's sake.

I'm sure I can think of a few more, but those are the ones that really stick in my craw.

[Banana]

And fix the legal system and oh, my God- the bureaucracy!!!!!!!!

[BlueRabbit]

...so I guess they'll be adding Blu-Ray drives to all of the school computers, then?

Edit: 333rd post!

[FFL]

Good thing you're not RedRabbit - that would be waaay too stressful!

[Wrao]

Ya know, to be honest, I preferred my one teacher who used pencil for comments, over the other teachers that used red. shrug. This teacher was also the most critical and had really high standards.

[johnq]

Can I tell my electric company that the red printing on the shutoff notice is extremely stressful?

[Brad]

Funny, I always thought red was supposed to make you hungry, hence the McDonalds/Wendys/etc motifs. I'm surprised the parents aren't suing the teachers for making their idiot children obese too.

[psmith2.0]

Give it time...it'll come.



My friend tells me of all the emphasis placed on totally empty feel-good "self esteem", to the detriment of any learning of core, important things. You know, things that actually help people get - and maintain - jobs and careers?

You can't artificially tack on self esteem and have it mean anything real. You earn it by working, knowing how to read, write, speak, etc. You do those things, and become a self-sufficent, capable and contributing member of society and guess what? The "self esteem" thing kinda takes care of itself, you know?

Hollow, false "self esteem" - based on nothing real and substantive - never put a meal on the table, paid the light bill or let you pursue the things you want in life.

But try telling that to some of these education board types, and, sadly, many teachers. Good luck...



I like Kickaha's ideas.

[.Hack]

Parents these days are just freaking enablers. There's no responsibility these days. Little Johnny and Shanaynay both failed their english test, so mommy and daddy ground them for an hour, but then go up to the school and chew out the administrator for failing the child. It's complete crap. But then again, being a teacher takes some extensive schooling and you MUST be able to work with parents (oh god...) and children, ranging from special ed to regular ed. Maybe if teaching wasn't one of the lowest paying jobs in america that requires a college education, some teachers would be more willing to teach (but that's only the case for the shitty teachers who make up about 10% of the teaching world, the rest generally WANT to teach... I dunno, I guess having a hardworking mom that's been a Diagnostician for over 30 years that loves what she does and how to help the students has given me a newfound appreciation for my education...

[Kickaha]

To be honest, my dream is to spend some years building a career and financial base, then go teach middle school and high school science and math.

I'm a natural, I love blowing crap up.

(Actually, my real dream is to start a private school for gifted children, but I'll settle for public teaching.)

[.Hack]

Well I'd like to get my Masters in Education in addition to my Major in Graphic Design. My ideal plan is to get a decent job with a graphic design firm, then go into teaching...

[Banana]

What about firing everyone in Health care sector, reallocate the budget to education, pay teacher a salary of $200,000, provided that they have completed mandatory seven years of schooling plus three years of residence and practicum and meet the rigorous teaching board? In process, we save Social Security and put a control on the population....

Umm, I need another joint... :smokey:

[crazychester]

Scatesy, I agree with you so much it's almost frightening. And yeah, I agree with Kickaha too but damned if I know how you'd ever achieve those things in this day and age. And Kickaha, don't. OK? Just don't. You are reading this thread, right? Go read it again. How about one more time just for good measure. Now repeat after me "I do not want to be a teacher. I do not want to be a teacher. I was just being silly/drunk/on drugs."

I could go on and on and on. It took me about 10 years just to get to teaching level and another couple of years to reach professional standard. The most complicated dance Parent Assclown has ever done is the macarena. So obviously they know better than me.

Pointe work.
Chester to Parent Assclown "I recommend Spoilt Brat should wait another year before going onto pointe" (I think it was Agnes de Mille who said, "Pointe work is a dandy attention getter....second only to screaming.")
Parent Assclown "But it will destroy her self esteem! All her friends are going onto pointe."
Chester (thinking) Yeah but her friends aren't 2 stone over weight tree sloths.
Chester (being diplomatic) "It's just very physically demanding and she doesn't have the ankle strength yet. She could get injured."
Parent Assclown "That's your fault/not what I wanted to hear. We're going to another school."
Chester "Goodbye. My insurance company wishes you well."

Dance is a demanding physical discipline.
Rudolph Steiner "there's more than one way to abuse a child" Parent "Your classes are too structured for Spoilt Brat."

Number 1 rule for ALL teachers
DON'T TOUCH THE KID!
Enter the dance teachers, stage left.
Demonstrating and describing aren't enough. Danger Will Robinson! Don't touch the kid because as we all know at least 75% of the population are paedophiles.
The dance teachers look bewildered. OK. If you say so.
Demonstrating and describing aren't enough. Danger Will Robinson! But we didn't touch the kid? Yes and as a result the child hasn't developed proper technique and has torn a ligament. Now we're going to sue the pants off you.
Fortunately the dance teachers have insurance for their students. Unfortunately, after paying to insure their students, the dance teachers can't afford to insure themselves so they won't be getting treatment for the nervous tic they've developed.

Other faves reported by Sensible Parent:
Pre-schools and creches won't let kids share from a big bowl of fruit pieces anymore because they'll get germies and die." Better give them some hermetically sealed processed crap that's 97% fat instead.

Pre-schools and creches won't let kids make things out of empty toilet rolls anymore because they're almost certainly covered in faeces which will cause child to get germies and die.

Meanwhile, out in the playground, child is happily eating dirt by the handful.

[psmith2.0]

Originally Posted by crazychester Scatesy, I agree with you so much it's almost frightening.

Yeah, I really say some wild, radical and unheard-of shit, huh?

It's only time-tested common sense and basic standards, which many have seen fit to fling it out the window these past 30 years or so in the search for "new and better" ways.

[psmith2.0]

Originally Posted by crazychester Pre-schools and creches won't let kids make things out of empty toilet rolls anymore because they're almost certainly covered in faeces which will cause child to get germies and die. Meanwhile, out in the playground, child is happily eating dirt by the handful.

[groverat]

Banning the color is silly. But a good argument can be made that it does more to punish and distract than encourage and engage.

[Kickaha]

crazyc, I hear ya.

I'm still too much of a masochist to not do it though.

[psmith2.0]

You know, beyond all this "should we, shouldn't we?" kind of stuff that can be endlessly debated, there's something very real at play here: it seems we're not preparing children much for the real world...a world of consequences, ups and downs, good times, failures, conflict, embarrassment, etc.

That worries me.

We kid-glove and pour hollow, meaningless feel-goodisms into their heads for 12 or so years, and when they get out into the real world (where supervisors and bosses don't really give two flying damns about your feelings, self-esteem, etc.) and they're just going to be absolutely wrecked!



How will they cope? If they can't handle some red ink now, what are they going to do when they drop the ball and lose an account and it all suddenly "matters" and becomes real?

Throw themselves on the floor and bawl uncontrollably? Run down the hall to the parking lot and hide in their cars?



I worry equally about the pussification of students (and lack of any sort of "okay, the real world works like this..." preparation) as I do the general dumbing-down and relaxing (if not outright dismantling) of standards.



Not only are they getting dumber, but more thin-skinned and hypersensitive. That can't be any sort of good, useful combination of traits to carry you through life, can it?

[Kickaha]

The scary thing is, the real world is *starting* to act like this.

No accountability, no responsibility, everything is someone else's fault...