[Brave Ulysses]

Lots of rumors about the iPhone 5S/6 being released earlier than expected, possibly as soon as late spring/early summer. Rumors of multiple color. All of it sounds reasonable and it's not hard to believe that Apple wants to push up the next update as much as possible as I don't think they want to have any more summer sales lulls as people wait for iPhone updates. Adding colors would also bring a "freshness" to the existing iPhone 5 design that is sure to stay. The iPhone 4S lacked that aesthetic freshness.


I'm more intrigued by today's oddball report that Apple may be working on an iPhone mini. It sounds ridiculously, especially since the iPhone up until the 5 already had one of the smallest smartphone screens and if anything there seems to be more demand for an even bigger iPhone screen. But, after initially laughing at it, i did think about it a little and it makes sense to me.

Recently I was in an Apple Store for a genius bar appt and while waiting I went to check out the new iPod Touch. It is incredible. It is incredibly thin and light and obviously I can't say for sure but it seems more durable as a result and just feels awesome in the hand. It makes the iPhone 5 actually feel hefty which is impressive. The iPod Touch was kind of like the iPad Mini for me... it has some trade offs but the size/weight/feel really make up for it.

If Apple could release an iPhone Mini that exact same dimensions and weight as the existing iPod Touch and sell it as their lower cost iPhone I think they would sell tons of them. And it would reduce some pressure on the larger iPhone to continue getting thinner while competing with much larger phones.

Marketing wise it also seems to make sense that Apple might mimic the iPad last year and update the normal iPhone early summer and then have a pre-holiday iPhone mini surprise.

[Partial]

If we can ever get down to a single model for all carriers like the 4S, I could see them doing colors. Otherwise, the product matrix just gets fricking huge!

Personally, I would love it if they went back to the original iPod mini colors. Those were much better than the ugly colors they have today.

[Brave Ulysses]

Originally Posted by Partial If we can ever get down to a single model for all carriers like the 4S, I could see them doing colors. Otherwise, the product matrix just gets fricking huge! Personally, I would love it if they went back to the original iPod mini colors. Those were much better than the ugly colors they have today.

The product matrix may get huge but it's only a difference in one material item... the case shell. And with Apple's massive size, each individual color could potentially sell more than the all models of the iPhone, iPhone 3G or 3GS sold combined when they were on sale.

[Wrao]

Well, since I got my iPad Mini, my iPhone 4S usage has dropped precipitously, I pretty much only use it when I go places and don't want to take the iPad(which is often enough to be fair, but I've been taking the iPad to places as well). So, observing my own usage habits changing, I think if Apple released a cheap 'iPhone mini', it kind of makes sense to me and I'd be pretty inclined to get it. Basically just a way to keep connected at a basic level(if only contract rates would reflect this better...)

Another thing I think relates to all of this is how the iPad Mini is class leading in weight and thinness, but it comes at the expense of using older tech(it's basically a large iPhone 4S components wise), still, despite the dated tech, it is still perfectly sufficient and performant for the overwhelming majority of tasks it is asked to do, so to that end, I think if there was ever a time to make an 'iPhone Mini' now is as good as ever on the basis that even yesterday's old tech is still perfectly competent for today's tasks(that is to say, it is slower, yes, but not unbearably so or deal-breakingly so for most uses). I've long figured that if Apple were to diversify the iPhone lineup in this way it would make sense to go to extremes, make the full-sized iPhone a 4.5-5.0" inch device and the iPhone Mini a 3.5" device(as well as as absolutely impossibly thin and light as possible), but I'm not really convinced that the market truly 'wants' all these big phones to begin with. Yes, the Galaxy S3 has sold very well but how much of that is due to simply being seen as 'the legitimate iPhone alternative' where the size of it is treated more as a compromise and less as a feature. Most of the smartphone screensize 'arms race' has struck me as being a necessary byproduct of trying to make these things faster with decent battery life than necessarily because it's what people want overall.

Still, at the end of the day, Apple has a track record of doing exactly that where they initially release a product in one size/configuration and market it as essentially the ideal size/configuration and then through that product's lifespan they iterate into several sizes and configurations. It has happened with iPods, iMacs(in all their form factors), Macbooks iBooks and Powerbooks, and it has started to happen with iOS devices, just against that history alone, however awkward it might seem, an iPhone mini does seem inevitable.

[Graphguy]

I REALLY hope we won't see Apple introduce a new model every six months. The iPhone 5 is (possibly with the screen as the only exception) STILL a class leading phone, and still ahead of the competition in so many areas.

No, we don't know what Apple has planned exactly for an iPhone 6, and yes, it would be awesome if they once again smoked the competition, but I for one really, really liked the yearly updates. Those meant that you as a customer knew what to expect, and you had at least a year to enjoy your flagship phone.

(Another) one of the big annoyances for me as an Android owner, was how you couldn't have a flagship phone for more than 3-4 months before the line got updated with yet another flagship phone with only slightly increased specs. I really hope Apple won't fall in the same trap.

[Eugene]

Originally Posted by Graphguy I REALLY hope we won't see Apple introduce a new model every six months. The iPhone 5 is (possibly with the screen as the only exception) STILL a class leading phone, and still ahead of the competition in so many areas.

The phone industry in the US is guided mainly by renewing contracts and discounted upgrades thanks to subsidies. So whether Apple moves to a finer grained release cycle largely doesn't matter to existing iPhone user.s However they still need to present themselves as competitive with the rest of the market for people on the fence...new phones from various other manufacturers are introduced at a rapid pace.

[Partial]

WSJ reporting that bigger, cheaper iPhones are coming. At least, according to this article:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...513922882.html

[Yontsey]

I don't buy them trying to compete vs themselves.

[Brave Ulysses]

Makes sense. I was surprised that Apple decided to sell the iPhone 4 for "free". I have to think it's still a fairly expensive phone design to make.

If Apple does release a 5S this summer... the 5 will slide down to be $99 and the 4S would slide down to be free.

Two problems I see with that though:
1. The iPhone 5 will still be relatively new and a very good phone and the design will most likely be the same as the 5S..... it might make the 5S a harder sell (who knows, but its possible).
2. The iPhone 4S lacks the lightning connector and would be the oddball 3.5" screen in the lineup.

A new cheaper iPhone but with a 4" screen could be a nice compliment to an iPhone 5S. It would standardize screen sizes and lightning connectors and presumably be cheaper to manufacture and it would also allow the 5S to stand on its own more so than having an iPhone 5 remain in the lineup at $99

[Partial]

Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses Makes sense. I was surprised that Apple decided to sell the iPhone 4 for "free". I have to think it's still a fairly expensive phone design to make. If Apple does release a 5S this summer... the 5 will slide down to be $99 and the 4S would slide down to be free. Two problems I see with that though: 1. The iPhone 5 will still be relatively new and a very good phone and the design will most likely be the same as the 5S..... it might make the 5S a harder sell (who knows, but its possible). 2. The iPhone 4S lacks the lightning connector and would be the oddball 3.5" screen in the lineup. A new cheaper iPhone but with a 4" screen could be a nice compliment to an iPhone 5S. It would standardize screen sizes and lightning connectors and presumably be cheaper to manufacture and it would also allow the 5S to stand on its own more so than having an iPhone 5 remain in the lineup at $99

Agree 100%. Really want something that they can compete on price with the N4, even if it is slightly lower spec'd. That price point + carrier relationships = win I think

[Robo]

Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses Two problems I see with that though: 1. The iPhone 5 will still be relatively new and a very good phone and the design will most likely be the same as the 5S..... it might make the 5S a harder sell (who knows, but its possible).

That's why I think doubled storage capacities are a lock for the so-called "iPhone 5S." Apple has never sold a $99 and $199 iPhone with the same design and the same capacity. They used to always halve the capacity when they dropped the price of last year's model to $99, but they didn't do that with the iPhone 4S (probably because then it would be too similar to the iPhone 4). So I think they're planning on doubling the $199 iPhone's capacity to 32GB. Then the 2013 line-up would look like this:

$0 — 16GB iPhone 4S
$99 — 16GB iPhone 5 (with new design/larger screen, &c.)
$199 — 32GB iPhone "5S" (with doubled capacity, plus all the other new stuff)

With such a line-up, even if you just looked at the appearance of the phone and the only "spec" you knew was storage capacity, there'd still be a clear hierarchy. Starting with the free iPhone, the first extra $100 gets you the new design and bigger screen, and the second extra $100 gets you double the storage space.

I don't think we'll see an iPhone 5 replacement any earlier than this fall, though. An annual update cycle has worked very well for Apple over the years, and I see no reason why Apple would want to switch things up now.

[Partial]

Originally Posted by Robo Stuff.

Welcome back, dude! It's been awhile.

[Brave Ulysses]

http://www.macrumors.com/2013/01/09/...ofing-devices/

Waterproof nano-coatings!

This is the kind of stuff that excites me more than anything else about future phones and I hope Apple is investing heavily into R&D for things like this.

The iPhone 5 is amazing.... but I would love it to be more durable and have 3X the battery life. I think it has gotten slim and light enough. Time to focus on other aspects of design (IMO).

[psmith2.0]

...it's Apple, they won't. They won't be satisfied until it's thinner than a baseball card.

[addison]

The subsidy model isn't guaranteed forever so they would be smart to have cheaper phones in the lineup especially as the current iPhone is reportedly the most expensive phone in the market. T-Mobile is ending all subsidies here in the US this year. It will be interesting to see how that goes over. What was more interesting though is the Verizon CEO at CES making positive comments about it and saying he could move that way very quickly if the idea catches on. It's the last thing Apple wants but since they make most of their money from phones they should be prepared for a possible shift.

All I really want from the next iPhone is better battery life. I'm tired of taking trips into the city and worrying about making it through the day.

[Brave Ulysses]

If iPhone 5 sales really are not meeting expectations I think Apple will shift gears and release a bigger screened iPhone and a new cheaper iPhone. They may have to to stay competitive.

[screensaver400]

I think a low cost iPhone would just be a 4S with a cheaper back (plastic, probably) and a lower-quality screen (iPod touch 4 quality), with an A5 chip. Call it iPhone mini. Make it seem like a current model instead of a year-old model, and make it cheaper to produce in the process.

Make it free on contract, or $349 to buy unsubsidized. If Apple can make money on a $329 iPad mini, it can make money on this $349 iPhone mini.

iPhone 5 priced at $99/$499 for 16GB.

iPhone 5S priced at $149/$549 for 16GB, $199/$599 for 32GB, $299/$699 for 64GB.

[Partial]

Originally Posted by screensaver400 I think a low cost iPhone would just be a 4S with a cheaper back (plastic, probably) and a lower-quality screen (iPod touch 4 quality), with an A5 chip. Call it iPhone mini. Make it seem like a current model instead of a year-old model, and make it cheaper to produce in the process. Make it free on contract, or $349 to buy unsubsidized. If Apple can make money on a $329 iPad mini, it can make money on this $349 iPhone mini. iPhone 5 priced at $99/$499 for 16GB. iPhone 5S priced at $149/$549 for 16GB, $199/$599 for 32GB, $299/$699 for 64GB.

I like the idea of sticking with a 4" screen. It seems that most of the Android phones have big screens. Ultimately, I think they'd be able to sell an iPhone 4S with a cheaper enclosure and maybe a less expensive camera for 300$ and make plenty of money. The margins would be less, obviously, but I think it's doable.

I think that 300$ price point is important. I would argue maybe even 250$. It's tough to compete with loss leader handsets. They won't do that. Having said that, it needs to be priced for the masses - like the iPad mini.

[Brave Ulysses]

Interestingly Gruber seems to really be coming around to the idea of a larger iPhone.

Now, I don't think he has any inside knowledge of it (although he may have heard whispers) but he has proven to be a fairly reasonable and reliable predictor of iPhone and iPad trends.

I think he is right to say that Apple is leaving sales on the table here without a larger screen alternative to these huge Android phones. The 4" iPhone just doesn't compete with them as much as I expected it would.

It seems fairly straight forward for Apple to start to expand the iPhone and iPad options.

I think they would get away with a lower DPI on the larger iPhone and still call it a retina display because they could argue that due to its larger size it is held further away. The same way that has been claimed for the iPad.

[Yontsey]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but if Apple made their screens bigger, I'd start looking at other phones. I absolutely hate those massive android phones.

[Brave Ulysses]

Originally Posted by Yontsey Maybe I'm in the minority, but if Apple made their screens bigger, I'd start looking at other phones. I absolutely hate those massive android phones.

Why would you no longer consider a 4" iPhone?

[drewprops]

While my 3Gs is getting long in the tooth I'm holding out for an iPhone that competes. A recent restoration from scratch has me sailing along nicely for now.


...

[Yontsey]

I'm talking bigger then 4" like Galaxy3 or the Note. I have an iPhone 5. It's perfect size.

[Brave Ulysses]

Originally Posted by Yontsey I'm talking bigger then 4" like Galaxy3 or the Note. I have an iPhone 5. It's perfect size.

Yea. I agree with that too. I think the iPhone 5 is a great size. I don't think anyone is saying Apple would abandon that form factor. But, there is a lot of speculation that Apple may release a larger screen iPhone model in addition to the existing 4" form factor. Gruber proposes a 4.92" screen as feasible.


It wouldn't be an either/or situation. The 4" would remain, and the larger screen size would be provided as an additional model.

I REALLY don't think Apple would ever consider going 4.92" as the only option.

[Yontsey]

The thing that is making me sad about Apple is it feels like they are becoming trend followers instead of trend setters as of recently. While the iPad Mini is a great device, it feels forced as would this larger screen iPhone.

[Brave Ulysses]

Originally Posted by Yontsey The thing that is making me sad about Apple is it feels like they are becoming trend followers instead of trend setters as of recently. While the iPad Mini is a great device, it feels forced as would this larger screen iPhone.

Agreed on that. But that's complicated.

I think Apple stalled on expanding the iPhone lineup and iPad lineup.... but who can blame them? They were selling and growing at incredible rates (and still are). But, the market in generally is growing incredibly fast and competition is getting better and better.

Apple was perhaps a bit too idealistic with these markets, not realizing how fast these markets move compared to the traditional PC market, and how quickly trends can change or be created. I think Apple has also been completely hamstrung by their software (as I have said before). The lack of resolution independence in iOS has screwed Apple and required them to quadruple resolutions to stay competitive and maintain compatibility while severely restricting their screen size options.



But... I also don't want Apple to treat this like PCs and sit idle while everyone else passes them by with more options. Apple should compete, even if it means following their competitor's lead at times. There are still other areas to lead in beside screen size.

[psmith2.0]

I thought I loved my iPhone 4, but I really do think the 5 is the best thing ever. The fact that most video fills the screen in landscape without letterboxing is really nice. It makes for a nicer experience and it doesn't feel "broken". The weight and thinness are so nice...I'm the only person I know using their iPhone (and model) without a case.

The tallness, just enough for one extra row of icons, just "feels right" in my hand. When I pick up an iPhone 4/4s now, it seems so stubby and the screen seems so squished and compressed, like it's missing something or not quite showing me everything. And it all just still rights right in my hand, and everything is reachable with my thumb. That, to me, is king. If I ever have to use two hands on a phone, something's wrong. That should be an option, or dictated by some sort of app or game where two hands/sets of input are part of the experience. But for day-to-day core stuff that the iPhone was built around - phone, iPod and Internet device - those should all be one-hand tasks. The iPhone 5, it still is. Even while giving me a bigger window and space to work with. Them going taller, but leaving the grip and width the same and only making it larger in one direction was a really good choice/decision.

This is the favorite thing I've ever owned. I'd give up any Mac or musical instrument I've owned before I would this. It's damn near perfect, IMO.

Tough to imagine going bigger and me still liking it. In fact, I kinda have to be careful about how this iPhone 5 sits in my pocket. A couple of times I've gotten into my car or sat in a chair and that extra length isn't always "bend friendly". I can't imagine dealing with one much larger.

This iPhone 5 design...I hope it sticks around for years to come.

They can make minis and maxis if they want. I don't care. I can't imagine liking any of them the way I do the 5. I know I don't want to go bigger, or lose one-hand control/usage. And I think some of those excessively large phones look a bit goofy. At that point, you're almost to a Kindle or iPad mini.

To me, it's much nicer to have all these features and functionality in a smaller, tighter package. If I ever whip out a Hallmark card-sized phone, just shoot me. Because it means I've been taken over by some sort of alien life force and I'm pretty much already dead anyway.

[Partial]

I've noticed that I basically always thumb type with both hands on my iPhone.

I agree with BU that resolution independence would be nice. I predict the OS itself supports it (obviously with the zoom in Safari), but that makes development more complicated (image sizes, etc). Not that it's a huge deal. I have a coworker who supports many resolutions of Android apps without issue. I think Apple has wanted to keep control and keep everything "tight" if you will. A lot of stuff on Android looks like shit, to be frank. Most things on iOS look beautiful.

I would not at all mind a GS3 sized iPhone and a 4" iPhone. If they have the same resolution, though, I don't see a point.

[Brave Ulysses]

iOS may support it..... but there really is no evidence of it. In the closed Apple quarterly earnings thread I wrote about resolution independence a bit....

But... the biggest point from Dorian's post but one that was misaimed is retina displays. Retina displays are important, but like you said, Apple is selling iPad Minis like crazy. Sure, at some point, retina displays will become standard. That's not the problem though. The problem is that Apple has failed to introduce resolution independence for 13 years. Apple has tried repeatedly and has failed every time and given up. Apple is hamstrung by not having resolution independence in its Macs and infinitely more so in iOS. It is bullshit that Apple cares about how much of your finger covers a phone screen.... that is marketing. The iPhone 5 is the dimension that it is because Apple doesn't have any other choice without truly fucking up their software and developers. The iPad Mini is the dimension that it is and doesn't have a higher resolution screen because Apple doesn't have resolution independence. The iPad 3/4 got thicker and heavier because Apple doesn't have resolution independence and had to jump to an absurd resolution to make the screen even slightly sharper. lack of Resolution independence is holding back the iOS products big time and limits Apple's flexibility. if the only feature of iOS 7 was resolution independence we would be disappointed but it would help Apple more than anything else they could add IMO.

Apple has struggled with resolution independence so much that they have even abandoned the concept on the Mac and have instead opted to take the iOS approach and quadruple resolutions on retina macs. To achieve in-between resolutions they actually run the entire screen through at full resolution and then scale it down to the user-set resolution. It's a crazy workaround.


It really is amazing to me that when Apple was writing iOS from scratch this was not an issue they saw as critical in the future and didn't implement it from the start. It seems like they ignored it and then the problem just kept growing and growing and the solution became far more complicated.

[Partial]

I think you guys are overthinking it. We have no evidence of a lot of those claims.