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16 and 14 Inch MacBoob Pro
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
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2021-07-04, 18:52

My understanding, from an article they posted on Appleinsider, that most staff were going to be working in the office, most of the time once everyone was double vaccinated and restrictions were reduced.
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chucker
 
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2021-07-05, 03:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
With those in-house, pre-filmed things, they’ve got flexibility and options they don’t have with a live audience. If they want to do 3-4 smaller presentations they can, making each as focused as they want, without the burden of asking press to come to Cupertino 2-3 times in the space of a few months.
Yes, there's a boy-who-cried-wolf limit to it. I imagine three videos is about as far as they can stretch it without the press getting bored.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
As for the lack of in-person, hands-on demos, we know Apple is sending demo/review units to the Grubers, Snells and iJustines of the world, which they can use in their own homes, at their leisure, for long stretches. That’s already better than a bunch of tech bloggers and journalists crowded around some demo units in the theater, hoping to snag five minutes with it before “hogging guilt” sets in.
That's an interesting point. I wonder how they feel about that.

Having Random The Verge Camera Dude immediately take a video and publish that increases the publicity blitz. But does it really help thorough, accurate coverage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
I don’t know if that place will ever be fully occupied and exploited as planned! They just built a giant glass donut that will probably never be fully staffed at this point. Ouch.
They'll probably still use it for staff presentations, I imagine.
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Kickaha
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2021-07-05, 15:16

Normally one gets fired for presentation of one's staff at work.
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kscherer
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2021-07-05, 15:23

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post
Normally one gets fired for presentation of one's staff at work.
Only if it makes the news.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2021-07-14, 13:15

Been quite a few stories about these models on MacRumors and AppleInsider the past week or so, mostly talking about displays, ramping up, how they're expected in autumn, etc. I thought about linking them, but nothing too exciting and I figure anyone hanging out here is probably checking those two sites on a regular basis.

They're milking this.

When these things finally get announced - the latest Apple Silicon, the displays, the new size(?), etc. - I think they're going to sell really well. But I have a feeling we're looking at another solid 2-3 months of waiting.

And when they do come out, they're going to have some sort of first-generation/Rev. A "[fill-in-the-blank]-gate" attached. Something will bend like it shouldn't, the displays will be wonky, one of the ports leaks Quaker State, etc.

Search your feelings, you know it to be true.
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Maciej
M AH - ch ain saw
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2021-07-14, 14:32

They will be a slam dunk, don’t bum me out mannnnnn.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2021-07-14, 14:46

I know.

I look forward to seeing what that 14" model is all about. That may prove to be The One for so many people (serious performance/power in a small-as-possible package). I've never been interested in the 16" (or 17", back in the day) models, but I know they have their fans.
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Frank777
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Join Date: May 2004
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2021-07-14, 18:12

It will be interesting to see the positioning.

I'm not a mobile power user. Most of my 'real' work is done on my iMac. So I've never really seen the point of having the 13" Air and the 13" Pro in the lineup. I feel that if I was someone who needed to push the envelope with a laptop, I'd just move from the 13" Air to the 16" Pro.

If the MB Pro line moves to 14"/16" and the Air stays at 13", then to me there's a true line between Apple's value/economy machines and the Pro machines.
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drewprops
Space Pirate
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2021-07-14, 21:05

I bought an early 2011 MBP and it was a DOG. It was from the generation of bad motherboards. They should have replaced it but never did. The late 2014 MBP has made up for the deficits of the prior model.

Which will the new one be?

:: drumroll ::


...
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PB PM
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2021-07-16, 19:25

Apple Germany accidentally listed an M1 16” MBP. That kind of nukes the M2 for the new MBP.
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chucker
 
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2021-07-17, 12:46

I'm not sure how iMessage link previews work; presumably they use an existing spec like Open Graph, but that description (now?) just says "Lass dein neues MacBook Pro kostenlos liefern. Wähle ein Modell aus oder konfiguriere dein eigenes. 0 % Finanzierung über 24 Monate." The model number from the URL, MVVJ2D/A, seems to be the one from the 2019 16-inch.

Best as I can tell, what happened is someone accidentally pasted the description text for the 13-inch into the 16-inch's the link preview.
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drewprops
Space Pirate
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2021-07-27, 17:33

Good discussion about the level of technology to be found in the next MBP's ports.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy5aEplDrS0



...
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kscherer
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2021-07-27, 17:39

I'm betting all that I have that it will be a computer and … get this … it will fit in your lap!
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2021-07-28, 09:58

Is this shaping up to be the most anticipated thing from Apple in recent years? Sure feels like it.

Anytime MacRumors or AppleInsider post an article about the upcoming higher-end 14/16" MacBook Pros, the comments there are way more than usual. And when I peek at other Apple/Mac-oriented blogs, YouTube channels, etc., it seems that's all most people want to talk about.

It's a portable kinda world and I just don't see this level of interest/anticipation about the iMac (any size) or the Mac Pro.

Apple could exclusively go into the 14" and 16" MacBook Pro business and probably do okay.

"It's all you sumbitches ever seem to talk about, so here...we've discontinued every other Mac and we're offering these new next-generation notebooks in every color in the visible spectrum. And we're going to update them every 6-8 months! Happy now?"
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kscherer
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2021-07-28, 10:36

I think people are more interested in the "pro" version of the M1 (or whatever) than the actual computer design.
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Frank777
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2021-07-28, 10:42

Also, Apple announced the transition a year ago. No-one in their right mind who can afford to wait is going to buy what we all know is going to be dead end technology. So if you can wait and you tend to keep the same laptop for 3-4 years, you're waiting.

That means there's pent-up demand and heightened interest in news about the timing of the release.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2021-07-28, 10:47

I know. It's pretty obvious a lot of people are set on go, waiting to place an order the moment they can.

Re: the chip vs. design, I think it's a bit of both. A lot of people have no idea what's under the hood (and care about it even less), but they do recognize a new screen size, port offerings, new body styling, etc.

So some are awaiting the next-gen M-whatever and some are eager to see what a new, redesigned-from-the-ground-up Apple notebook is gonna look like in 2021.
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drewprops
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Join Date: May 2004
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2021-07-28, 11:05

The ports MUST be maxed out.

Fastest SD card format.

HDMI Plus.

ThunderPie 5.

USB 12, or whatever.

Just do it.



...
  quote
kscherer
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2021-07-28, 11:38

Quote:
Originally Posted by drewprops View Post
The ports MUST be maxed out.

Fastest SD card format.

HDMI Plus.

ThunderPie 5.

USB 12, or whatever.

Just do it.



...
I was going to type up a big rant about legacy ports, but I've decided not to. Instead, I'll just say that I hope Apple doesn't take that backwards step.

If USB-C/TB-3 is the only option, then manufacturers will steadily march toward a common connector for everything! If not, then they won't, and then you'll be stuck with a thing for this and a thing for that and another thing for the other thing. But, some folks like it that way.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2021-07-28, 11:47

With the two different sizes, will both so-called "pro" models get both the same port layout? I, too, am kinda torn about the legacy port situation. Apple didn't include SCSI, floppy drive, etc. on that first jellybean iMac. Some folks absolutely lost their shit, but look what followed. Are we kinda in that zone again? I don't know. I'm not a "pro" user, but I realize many may still use/rely on those connectors. But I also think pro users would be okay with buying whatever special adapters/dongles needed to do their specific, non-mainstream work. They're pros...they're probably used to buying weird, offbeat stuff to do their job.

History does tell us the smaller MacBook Pro - going back to the 12" PowerBook G4 - always drags up a little short on the full complement of specs/ports. If it's a space issue, I don't know how to get around that. Then maybe "pro" MacBooks need to be 16" (and priced accordingly) and a 13-14" "good enough for most everyone" can be called a MacBook or something?

I just don't want there to be this ongoing stupid two-tiers-of-smaller-MacBook-Pro, where the lower-priced models barely qualify to earn the name, and paying $1,800+ to get the real stuff that does merit the naming/marketing. Make a clear-cut distinction, Apple. And base it on/center it around the naming...that's the easiest.

This is a perfect opportunity, this fall, for Apple to address this in some way. It's a sure bet new, redesigned 14" and 16" MacBook Pros are coming.

As I've been saying all along, pack both with the equal power/graphics/ports (if the 16" gets HDMI, SD slot, etc., then the 14", if called MacBook Pro, should get them all as well. The only decision at the $1,799+ stage should be "do I wanna fork over a bit more for a larger screen?". That's it. The two models called MacBook Pro, regardless of size difference, should perform the same and the 14" shouldn't be crippled.

At which point, you either:

a) Let the MacBook Air be the "notebook for everyone else" (and maybe even just rename it "MacBook") and cover that $999-1,500 space and ditch that $1,299 and $1,499 13" M1 MacBook Pro, forcing people who want a fan and true power/capability to shell out for it...like a pro would do

or (my preference)

b) Leave the Air as is, leave the current 13" M1-based MacBook Pros as is (but simply remove the word "Pro" from their name) and introduce those new, higher-end 14" and 16" models with 16GB RAM stock, all the ports, no compromises and knowing that those who need such will shell out the $1,799+ for them.

The students and mommy bloggers will still have the affordable, fanless Air, 85% of the population (a-toe-in-both-worlds folks like me who do a bit of moderate/heavy-lifting at times but not requiring true, balls-out performance 24/7) would be served by the now mid-range "MacBook" (fan, etc.) and those truly needing a no-compromise pro portable have the new 14" and 16" models (next-gen Apple Silicon, rumored ports, more stock RAM, better graphics, etc.). Still messy and some odd overlap and not ideal, but better than keeping two 13" models around called "Pro" that really aren't, and making people wonder why the smaller MacBook Pro comes in two 1"-apart sizes/body designs/port offerings, etc.

Just the simple removal of the word "Pro" from those $1,299 and $1,499 models instantly does away with all that. It's gonna suck - and needlessly confuse buyers/customers - if the smaller MacBook Pro comes in two different sizes/designs/processors/port offerings.

"Uh, which smaller MacBook Pro am I supposed to get? They're both called the same thing, but there's a 1" size difference, they're $500 apart in price, the 13" model is missing most of the stuff the 14" has, they look nothing alike, etc. What, exactly, is 'pro' about that 13" $1,299 model?!"

Exactly. Been saying this for some time, even way before the M1 came to be.

I hope Apple knows this and is planning a bit of renaming/realigning (a or b above, or even something else that addresses the situation) on the day the new 14" and 16" models are announced. Because, frankly, I'm tired of trying to explain the situation to people (the two distinct tiers of 13" MacBook Pro).

"This $1,299 model ain't nothing like that $1,799 one!"

Yeah, no shit.

Ford didn't call the Fiesta "Mustang", after all. Even in 2021, words still mean things.

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2021-07-28 at 12:30.
  quote
Bryson
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Join Date: Feb 2005
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2021-07-28, 12:45

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
If USB-C/TB-3 is the only option, then manufacturers will steadily march toward a common connector for everything! If not, then they won't, and then you'll be stuck with a thing for this and a thing for that and another thing for the other thing.

But USB-C is already that. It's just the cables are different inside, but look identical, which is worse.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2021-07-28, 12:54

It's all confusing to me. I halfway follow this kind of stuff and I still don't have a full grasp on the USB C, Thunderbolt this, USB that, etc. I just know that whatever I wind up buying, I'll probably need to shell out an $20-40 for some sort of adapter/dongle.

This kinda goes to Apple a bit because there was a time when they'd include some of this stuff to help. I think, at the very least, including a USB-C to regular ol' inkjet/thumb drive USB adapter in the box would score a few PR/goodwill points.

Because I have a feeling there have been way more people hacked off at "I can't connect one $#%^ thing I own!" than there have people praising the near-nothing packaging. Whether they're paring down for financial or environmental reasons, who knows. Maybe a bit of both.

Apple would love to get it down to a laptop and a white sticker. Power cord, USB/lightning cable, box, legal/warranty info, optional. If you could just pull up to the store and they throw a naked MacBook in your car, they'd love it.

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2021-07-28 at 13:05.
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drewprops
Space Pirate
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2021-07-28, 13:28

My 6.7 year old MBP has:

1 - MagSafe power connector
2 - USB ports (one is faster)
2 - Thunderbolt ports
1 - headphone jack
1 - HDMI port
1 - SD Card slot

I have a zip-up container with at least 6 dongle adapters, but I do not use them with any frequency now.

This machine has been incredibly "prepared" to work sans dongles.

That's why I am so juiced for the rumored configuration of the new machine.

The fewer times I need to dip into a dongle bag, the better.

That is "pro" to me.


...

Steve Jobs ate my cat's watermelon.
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chucker
 
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2021-07-28, 13:40

I think there are two distinct aspects to USB-C replacing other ports, even ignoring whether Apple was too optimistic and aggressive about it (IMHO, they were):
  • as the entry point, if you will, it can replace virtually everything. It has a ton of bandwidth especially with Thunderbolt 3, and it has all these modes that allow it to directly pass on signals such as DisplayPort.
  • buuuuuuut, that doesn't mean those other connectors become obsolete. It only means they don't necessarily have to be on the computer itself.

So, for example, USB-A was an adequate replacement for ADB and some of SCSI, not just to replace the port on the computer itself, using adapters, but also to (within a few years) have future versions of those accessories just use USB-A directly. A mouse no longer needed to be ADB; it could be USB. With USB 2.0, an external hard disk no longer needed to be SCSI or FireWire; it could be USB, too.

Not so for USB-C. USB-C isn't going to suddenly become the new way we network computers together; Ethernet does that job well. Nor will it replace HDMI; some displays do ship with a USB-C port, but almost none of those don't also ship with either HDMI or DisplayPort.

I don't know if Apple at one point had the vision that we'd live in a future where USB-C is the new Ethernet, and the new HDMI, and whatever else, but I think it's clear now that that ain't happening.

So if Apple wants to do a new 16-inch MacBook Pro (which, GOOD GRIEF SHIP IT ALREADY), they can either proceed in their Jony Ive pristine white room you only get four ports and you'll be happy world, which inevitably means a trip to dongletown, or they can make some common ports available directly. Not very practical for Ethernet, because it's far too fat (so even the 2012 15-inch MacBook Pro no longer had it), but it's perfectly practical for HDMI. The 16-inch wouldn't have to be that much thicker, and it could suddenly, gasp, directly connect any of thousands of monitors and TVs directly.

I don't know if that'll happen. Some rumors point to yes.
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kscherer
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2021-07-28, 14:08

All this dongle talk is just funny.

How about an HDMI to USB-C cable?

How about a USB-whatever to USB-C cable?

Or a DisplayPort to USB-C cable?

Or a DVI to USB-C cable?

Everyone squawks about adapters to make their existing cables work. Why not just replace the cable, and then you don't need an adapter? USB-C makes possible what has not been possible before.

And, Drew, if you got a new MacBook Pro today, you wouldn't need to carry around a bag of adapters at all! One thing, Drew. One thing and everything connects to the computer over one cable! I cannot get through my head why you would want to have to plug in so many things.

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chucker
 
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2021-07-28, 14:13

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
All this dongle talk is just funny.

How about an HDMI to USB-C cable?

How about a USB-whatever to USB-C cable?

Or a DisplayPort to USB-C cable?

Or a DVI to USB-C cable?

Everyone squawks about adapters to make their existing cables work. Why not just replace the cable, and then you don't need an adapter? USB-C makes possible what has not been possible before.
You can do that, but I'm not sure it's a great choice.

If you only occasionally connect your HDMI display to your USB-C Mac, it's more flexible to use a regular HDMI-to-HDMI cable and a USB-C-to-HDMI dongle.

And if you don't do it just occasionally, then it's probably a much better choice to instead get a USB-C hub or dock, and then from there use a regular HDMI-to-HDMI cable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
And, Drew, if you got a new MacBook Pro today, you wouldn't need to carry around a bag of adapters at all! One thing, Drew. One thing and everything connects to the computer over one cable! I cannot get through my head why you would want to have to plug in so many things.
I don't understand.
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kscherer
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2021-07-28, 14:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
I don't understand.
He carries a host of adapter-thingy's because his old MacBook Pro has Thunderbolt 2, USB, and HDMI. Because of those port choices, he needs lots of adapters to make his things work. USB-C has the added advantage of supporting small, inexpensive* hubs that have all of the connectors he is concerned about in one place. Instead of a bag of adapters (something like 6 according to him) he could carry one thing that supports all his stuff and only uses one port on the computer, including power.

That is a much better solution than lots of dongles, or lots of ports. And, keep in mind that the cost of all those ports on the new computer is going to be reflected in the final cost of the system. My guess is at least $100 will be converted into retail pricing because all those ports and their respective licensing add to the bottom line. That means the majority of buyers who don't need or want the legacy stuff have to pay more to subsidize the cost for the minority who do. For this added reason, I would rather have a system with less built-in expense for the majority of buyers, and a small expense—something like $50 or less—for those who need access to all the old things.

* The cost of one inexpensive USB-C hub is far less than the cost of all those other adapters combined, and not by some small amount.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)

Last edited by kscherer : 2021-07-28 at 14:44.
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drewprops
Space Pirate
 
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2021-07-28, 16:37

Actually, it's the inverse.

I have had a port for virtually everything I need without extra dongles.

The dongles I have and use only occasionally include:

- Ethernet
- backward compatibility to FireWire
- SVGA



...
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kscherer
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2021-07-28, 17:08

That's not 6.

Last edited by kscherer : 2021-07-28 at 18:00.
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PB PM
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2021-07-28, 17:16

Be ready for dongle life, SD card slots aren’t coming back. FireWire? What is this 2010? Unless you are using some wacky audio interface, move on, modern USB-C/Thunderbolt is just better. VGA? What are you using a 20 year old projector?
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