[drewprops]

I had not seen any discussions of Apple's new file system until this article on Ars Technica.

I can only follow along at a layman's level, but it's an interesting piece and will eventually become a normal part of your life, once it goes GM.



...

[Kickaha]

I find it interesting that they are focusing more on privacy and security than data correctness.

Probably reflects a very real shift in the world, but one that I still find a little unsettling as an old bit-pusher.

[alcimedes]

Do SSD's have less of an issue with data correctness since they don't have the spinning disks/drop trauma to deal with?

[Kickaha]

Not really. A spinning platter crashing is a full failure situation. What normally happens is a parity bit getting flipped somewhere, and voila, slow bit rot. (He alludes to this in the article.) Also, don't laugh, cosmic rays. They flip bits on chips as they pass through. RAM, controllers, SSD... enough of those, and you have bit rot.

I don't know that SSDs are any better or worse than HDs for this.

[turtle]

Being focused on security over data is not shocking at all. Remember, Apple's push is to subscription services like iCloud Drive. This means everything is backed up anyway so why bother making it paramount in the file system?

Encryption though, that is something everything should have. Building it at the priority from the start would make adding data integrity later realistic. This might also be why it isn't being pushed out mainstream yet.

The ting about this change is that most won't have a clue. They won't realize how encrypted there stuff actually is and won't likely care. Geeks pay attention, but most don't even have a passcode on their phone.

[Kickaha]

True dat. I suspect that your iCloud storage will simply become a shared pool with your device. At least I hope so.

[alcimedes]

Huh, so I wonder if a backup program would catch the flipped bit or not.

I would assume not, since the file size/date modified would be the same. In theory then your backup of the file should also be good.

[Kickaha]

Originally Posted by alcimedes Huh, so I wonder if a backup program would catch the flipped bit or not. I would assume not, since the file size/date modified would be the same. In theory then your backup of the file should also be good.

Yup. Backups do bupkus against bit rot. That's why error checking on-device is best, error checking through checksums off-device are good.

Apple's argument is that their on-device error checking is primo. Author isn't so sure.

[Frank777]

I read somewhere that Apple plans to make APFS the shipping file system within 18 months of its release.

Is that the timeline we should be working with? When do you guys think it will be safe to use on a business-critical system?

[kscherer]

At the exact same moment you determine your data to be unimportant!

[turtle]

Or well backed up.

[PB PM]

I wouldn't use APFS until Apple thinks it's good enough for boot drives, until then stay clear of it for anything important.

[Frank777]

APFS is about to become the default for iOS devices with 10.3. So I'm guessing it will be the default in this year's Mac OS update in October.

About time. We've been waiting forever for a new filesystem.

[PB PM]

I just hope Apple doesn't put some arbitrary hardware restrictions on using APFS. Has anyone been actively using APFS for external drives, or was that only available with the 10.12 beta versions?

Let's also hope it brings improved SSD performance as well, since some machines with SSD's have strange issues with macOS right now. One of my SSD machines gets random beachballs for no reason that I can figure out, even after numerous clean OS installs. What's worse is that it does not do that when booting with a HDD.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by PB PM I just hope Apple doesn't put some arbitrary hardware restrictions on using APFS. Has anyone been actively using APFS for external drives, or was that only available with the 10.12 beta versions?

Yup.

APFS isn't available in a stable version. It's apparently used for iOS 10.3, but for macOS, you only get an early developer build with many restrictions like no bootability. You could put it on an external drive, but you'd do so at your own risk.

Originally Posted by PB PM Let's also hope it brings improved SSD performance as well,

Well, for starters, it's multithreaded. Should make for fewer locks/stalls.

Originally Posted by PB PM since some machines with SSD's have strange issues with macOS right now. One of my SSD machines gets random beachballs for no reason that I can figure out, even after numerous clean OS installs. What's worse is that it does not do that when booting with a HDD.

Any particular process? Tried spindumping?

[alcimedes]

Originally Posted by PB PM One of my SSD machines gets random beachballs for no reason that I can figure out, even after numerous clean OS installs. What's worse is that it does not do that when booting with a HDD.

Is this an Apple SSD that was installed to begin with? On most 3rd party drives I've added I needed to enable the TRIM command on the drive to get it to function totally normally.

If you check under System Profile, then check your SSD drive, see if it says "TRIM enabled" or not.

If not, terminal up and do this:

sudo trimforce enable

[PB PM]

Originally Posted by chucker Any particular process? Tried spindumping?

Web surfing, video playback, iMovie, iTunes, Finder and more. I have not tried, spindumping. I cannot think of what that would do that a fresh OS install wouldn't fix.

Originally Posted by alcimedes Is this an Apple SSD that was installed to begin with? On most 3rd party drives I've added I needed to enable the TRIM command on the drive to get it to function totally normally. If you check under System Profile, then check your SSD drive, see if it says "TRIM enabled" or not. If not, terminal up and do this: sudo trimforce enable

Third Party, Sandisk Ultra II drive, and I enabled TRIM when I installed it. My other system with a Samsung 850 Pro is smooth as butter, it's ratter baffling. At first I thought it might be a caching issue, but disk space isn't an issue, so there should be plenty of space for that. The trouble only started a few months after I got the drive, after macOS 10.11.3 or .4 came out and hasn't stopped since. I even checked the drive with Sandisk's SSD software in Windows, it says the drive is fine. Speed tests show the drive is basically running at the advertised pace.

[turtle]

You might want to check the Trim Status. I've had my Intel drives no longer be Trim Enabled after an OS update.

[PB PM]

Haven't touched TRIM since the last time I tried a reinstall of OSX, 12 months ago. Looks like it's active.

[turtle]

Thinking about it, I ran into the issue before we used the Terminal command sudo trimforce enable. It was when we had to use third party apps that I had to redo it.

[Frank777]

I used today's Family Day holiday in Ontario to finally install a Corsair Force LE SSD into my 2009 27" iMac.
Things went much easier than I expected. It was borderline fun.

The one question I have is whether or not I need to enable TRIM on Mac OS Sierra?

And if I do, the best way to do that. I've never touched the Command Line interface before.

[dglow]

- launch Terminal
- type "sudo trimforce enable" (sans quotes), hit return
- type in your password, hit return
- type "y" to confirm, hit return
- system may reboot

voila!

(this assumes the new SSD is your boot drive)

[Frank777]

Thanks!