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Intel's 7nm is Broken


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Intel's 7nm is Broken
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drewprops
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Join Date: May 2004
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2020-07-23, 20:11

Apple's move to its own iron seems even more prescient today, as Intel announces a big delay in reaching their 7nm process.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/in...d-expectations


...

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PB PM
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2020-07-24, 11:08

Better title, Intel is broken, has no idea what to do. Sounds like they may even outsource to TSMC for some future production. Nothing wrong with that, just about all the big chip makers do.

The bigger news this week is that Nvidia might buy ARM. Nvidia is not exactly known for having a good relationship with Apple. What if they refuse to license ARM to Apple in the future? That could kill AX Macs before they even launch.
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kscherer
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2020-07-24, 12:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
What if they refuse to license ARM to Apple in the future? That could kill AX Macs before they even launch.
The SEC is going to go hard on anyone who wants to buy ARM. No way that joint is getting sold off without some serious anti-competition contracts in place.

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PB PM
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2020-07-24, 15:28

Nvidia doesn’t operate in Apples areas of business, (Phones, consumer computers etc) so how would it be anti-competitive?
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chucker
 
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2020-07-25, 06:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Nvidia doesn’t operate in Apples areas of business, (Phones, consumer computers etc) so how would it be anti-competitive?
Nvidia doesn't operate in consumer computers? I think the Nintendo Switch and quite a few gaming PCs would beg to differ.

And yes, if Nvidia were to buy ARM and then immediately restrict licensing, that could be seen as an antitrust-relevant move, as far too many companies rely on ARM licensing right now.
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PB PM
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2020-07-25, 08:48

What I meant is that Nvidia does not sell computers or phones themselves. They sell GPUs, but that has nothing to do with ARM. It would only be a good anti-trust case if Nvidia suddenly cut off all licences and started shipping those devices themselves. It’s unlikely that Nvidia would cut off every ARM license, there are thousands of them. The poor relationship could come back to haunt Apple, and I doubt cutting off one license could constitute as being anti-competitive.
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chucker
 
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2020-07-25, 15:01

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
What I meant is that Nvidia does not sell computers or phones themselves.
Yeah, sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
They sell GPUs, but that has nothing to do with ARM.
They do sell ARM CPUs. As I mentioned, the Switch has one. Some cars do. And if this rumor is true, they're clearly expanding on that idea.

(There was also that brief period where they sold chipsets — nForce. Then Intel started integrating more and more of the chipset into the CPU package, and cut off Nvidia's options. What if they were to one-up Intel and sell an ARM-based CPU for PCs?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
It would only be a good anti-trust case if Nvidia suddenly cut off all licences and started shipping those devices themselves.
I don't follow how you figure that. Antitrust doesn't have to revolve around a single market.
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PB PM
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2020-07-25, 16:45

What I am saying, and you clearly don't seem understand, is that it would be highly unlikely for SEC to go after NVIDIA if all they did was not renew Apple's ARM license, if they didn't do the same to anyone else. Why is that so hard to comprehend?

Unless NVIDIA plans to ship with ARM Windows or a custom Linux package, neither of which will appeal to a large number of consumers, I doubt they would try to go it their own on PCs.

I'm aware of the chipset history, and how horrible NVIDIA chipsets were.

I highly doubt SEC would even raise a finger to help Apple, since Apple isn't eaxtly on the US Governments list of most loved companies. Apple's already dealing with several government (US and otherwise) anti-competitive cases on their own.
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chucker
 
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2020-07-27, 03:15

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
What I am saying, and you clearly don't seem understand, is that it would be highly unlikely for SEC to go after NVIDIA if all they did was not renew Apple's ARM license, if they didn't do the same to anyone else. Why is that so hard to comprehend?
I understand just fine. I just think kscherer's scenario is quite plausible.

(I think you mean the FTC, not the SEC?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Unless NVIDIA plans to ship with ARM Windows or a custom Linux package, neither of which will appeal to a large number of consumers, I doubt they would try to go it their own on PCs.
We'll see. Microsoft+Qualcomm is clearly giving it a shot. Could be the right moment for Nvidia to join in; they have more interesting cores than Qualcomm does (but it's not clear if they're interested in shipping them at volume).

I'm aware of the chipset history, and how horrible NVIDIA chipsets were.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
I highly doubt SEC would even raise a finger to help Apple, since Apple isn't eaxtly on the US Governments list of most loved companies. Apple's already dealing with several government (US and otherwise) anti-competitive cases on their own.
Well, playing favors like that would be something the FTC OIG might be interested in.
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