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spotcatbug
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Clayton, NC
 
2018-05-12, 08:48



What happened to the best forum on The Internet? You go away for seven years... and... well, things are supposed wait for you... stay the same, so that when you come back, you won't have a mid-life crisis.

This is eerie. I almost would have preferred one of those "this domain is for sale" pages. Like, "OK, that was before. Now is now. Everybody moved on." It looks like people do still post sporadically. Maybe it'll come back. It's just a little break.

Is it because Apple won? There's no more feeling of comraderie? You want to discuss Apple and stuff? Look to your left, that person in the room with you most likely has a bunch of Apple devices and opinions.

Can you imagine how silly it would have seemed, back in the day, to post something like: "I predict that by 2016 Apple will be the largest company in the world! No, wait - the largest company that's ever been!" Preach on, brother!

Is it time for MicrosoftNova? I'm trying hard to think of any product I own that Microsoft makes. Nope. I use Windows 10... in a VirtualBox... on my Mac... rarely.

I missed this forum's smilies. They're the best.

Ugh.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tidewater Virginia
 
2018-05-12, 19:12

Yeah things do move on. I'd say plenty of us are still here but post less and less. I can't count or even guess at the number of times I've started to post something and then chose not to for what ever reason.

It doesn't help that there isn't a site funneling people here like back when it was in it's heyday.

Still, I check in regularly though not everyday like I used to. Every other day at least.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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drewprops
Magnificent Basturd™
sagacious-d
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2018-05-12, 19:20

I have started coming here now more often, actually.

But it's mostly Facebook that did it for me.

...
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Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Whitby
 
2018-05-12, 21:59

The Tweeter and the Bookface did it.

And, I think there is a little of the "no longer the underdog" behind it all, too.
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
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2018-05-13, 05:02

Yup. It’s in part that small communities aren’t as popular in favor of huge ones like Facebook, and in part that Apple isn’t the underdog any more.
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Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2018-05-13, 14:11

Ditto! Ditto? Ditto.

Aside from the whole "small communities aren't where it's at any more" truth, I think Apple is significantly less interesting than it was fifteen years ago. The rumor will was more interesting, Apple's new products were more awe-inspiring, and the overall industry wasn't nearly as homogenized as it is today. The normalization of Apple's products, and I think to a lesser degree the loss of Jobs' showmanship, has reduced the excitement and things to talk about.

I haven't actually been excited about an Apple product release since the original iPhone, and that was eleven years ago! The iPad still just feels like an oversized iPhone to me. The Apple Watch never caught my attention and still feels like an overpriced toy. The Home Pod (and it's predecessor the iPod Hi-Fi) is ho-hum. macOS is on a slow, stable evolution with rarely any flashy, headling-grabbing features, which is good but doesn't spark many conversations. All of the other products have just had moderate and totally predictable incremental updates, some of which feel like steps backwards (I'm looking at you, MacBook lineup, among other).

I even look around at other websites, forums, subreddits, etc. and the volume of enthusiastic Apple chat seems to be dialed-down across the board. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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Mac+
9" monochrome
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: I'm here
 
2018-05-14, 06:31

Hey spotcatbug!

I keep dropping by in the hope something sparks a community conversation again. Drew’s recent initiative is promising!

As for your recollection... yeah, we were the best forum on The Internet! Proud to have been part of that with everyone!

It wasn’t all Apple Talk though that made this place so good. We had a genuine sense of community and some of our best threads weren’t related to Apple goings on at all. I wish that vibrant discourse returned.

As for Facebook - I’ve never been a on it, so I can’t cite that as a reason for not being here. I still visit, but it’s lack of new posts that has been the reason for my sporadic contributions.
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spotcatbug
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Clayton, NC
 
2018-05-14, 08:08

What Brad said about Apple being less interesting exactly fits how I feel (once again this forum enlightens.) I couldn't put my finger on it.

I guess the awesome innovation stops when a company is on top. They don't want to rock the boat too much. The status quo is basically what they want. After all, the status quo is them being number one, raking in all the dough. But, somehow, I think Steve Jobs would have kept Apple interesting. His objective had always been about world-changing technology, not profit-making (that was just an inevitable side effect.) Even though, as CEO, profit is supposed to be your only motive. Maybe that's why he was so reluctant about returning to the CEO spot. He felt he didn't have the right mindset.

So, um, where does everybody go to discuss this stuff, if not here? Facebook?!? I tried it. Well, I mean, I have an account that I never use because I just don't get it. I don't see how it even compares to a forum such as this. I must be a grumpy old man. "I don't understand" Maybe it's changed since I gave it a whirl. I don't know.

Ugh.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2018-05-14, 12:04

There are a few of us still hanging around. 709, Turtle, Brad (when he's not chasing squirrels). Others off and on and off again. The pirate when he can find his mouse. But, yes, Tweetsnapclickface done changed the internet (for the worse, me thinks). People are attracted to the new shiny, and Applenova has never been shiny. Just a bunch of keyboard junkies arguing over Apple this and politic that. This site has always been focused on simplicity. We don't collect your data and sell it to <insert your favorite candidate to hate here>. At least I think we don't. Brad? BRAD?

Nooooooooooooo...................................

I had a Facepalm account, but palmed my face too many times and ditched it. Applenova is still a superior forum for discussion. People are more mature, less focused on Look At Me®, easier to talk to. There is less attention trying to attract a collection of fake friends/followers. Posts are generally more thought out, intelligent, etc.

It's better.

And I would honestly prefer there only be 10-20 regular posters here who are genuine, predictable, and, dare I say, real, than the millions of asshats hovering about the TwitterFace.

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!
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kieran
Tweeting @kierankelly
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York City
 
2018-05-14, 12:34

I still check in here about once or twice a day when I have a few spare minutes. Don't post all too often, but I'm not posting all that often online in general anymore.

My Twitter postings have gone way down in the last few years and my FaceBook has been gone for years at this point.

I guess its' just a combination of multiple things, but it's nice to see some familiar names pop up here from time to time again. I've been trying to reach out to Scates through PMs, but he hasn't responded. He used to be on Twitter, but seems to have gotten rid of that.

Most of my Apple news is coming from Twitter along with any conversation about Apple taking place there as well, with mostly former AN people, namely Wyatt & Justincox.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2018-05-14, 12:52

Quote:
Originally Posted by kieran View Post
I've been trying to reach out to Scates through PMs, but he hasn't responded. He used to be on Twitter, but seems to have gotten rid of that.
I had a [short] conversation with Scates not too long before Star Wars 8 shipped. I won't reveal details, but it seems that he is doing okay. He is focused on other things.

FWIW, I miss his presence (as I do many others).

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
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2018-05-14, 14:07

Quote:
Originally Posted by spotcatbug View Post
I guess the awesome innovation stops when a company is on top. They don't want to rock the boat too much. The status quo is basically what they want. After all, the status quo is them being number one, raking in all the dough. But, somehow, I think Steve Jobs would have kept Apple interesting. His objective had always been about world-changing technology, not profit-making (that was just an inevitable side effect.)
I think iOS/Android have democratized computers quite a bit more compared to the 90s. The status quo on Windows was that people were afraid to try out software. What if it breaks the computer? What if it slows down? What if there are security issues? What if, after uninstalling (if you can figure out at all how to do it), it leaves crap behind? The sandboxing model solves pretty much all of that. Instead, there are new risks now — privacy, for instance. And on that, I actually think Tim Cook has a decent chance: both because it's in his business interest (it makes for a good USP compared to Google and Facebook, and it's financially viable because their business model is, by and large, selling hardware, not selling data), and because he has a personal stake in it.

There are also worries that today's Apple isn't particularly good at making leapfrog products. The Watch arguably launched prematurely; they pretty much didn't quite know which of its features would garner interest, so they threw a random assortment of stuff in there. And even today, it's a bit lacking in terms of a killer app. (I do wear one. But it's arguably not quite worth its price tag, yet. Even at 4.x.) Similarly, the Apple TV, even after its umpteenth iteration, still hasn't quite become a platform.

Then there's quality worries, but this one's quite hard to pinpoint. Was quality really that great under Steve? Early Mac OS X was plagued in performance issues, and we overlooked some of the more obvious quality issues because it was young, and it was the future. Not sure about this.

Lastly, the Mac. I think there's some VPs who still care a lot about it — Phil, especially. There's also some who have apparently moved on; Jony comes to mind the most. (In fact, he seems so bored of it all maybe he should leave and make room for the new.) That leaves us with some decent Mac stuff like the iMac Pro, but also a lot of half-baked stuff like the current MacBook Pro, some truly puzzling stuff like the MacBook line-up (why are the MacBook Air, the MacBook, and the MacBook without Touch Bar simultaneously "current" products? The most charitable reading here is that Intel screwed Apple over and they were too optimistic in how quickly the MacBook's performance would scale up), and lastly some inexcusable, inexplicable stuff like letting the Mac mini linger.

I'm sure there are technological considerations we cannot know about in detail from the outside looking in. Maybe they overestimated how well their frameworks would work together across the platforms, and thought some stuff would be further along by now. As an example, maybe Files was really not planned to ship much earlier than iOS 11, and maybe Finder was really supposed to be replaced by a common Files/Finder codebase by now. Maybe Photos for Mac was meant to be more powerful by now, but they ran into quality issues. Maybe they have had internal working prototypes of streaming iOS widgets to the Mac's notification center long ago, but they're not there yet. It's hard to say.

Or maybe they need a product czar who sees these things, and don't currently have one.

I think "Apple has become complacent" is too simple a narrative, but there's also quite a few aspects about Apple that, from my armchair point of view, they could easily improve upon. Was the MacBook Pro butterfly keyboard a result of hubris? OK. It happens. Cut your losses, backtrack, move on. Do it. Stop waiting year after year. Do you not want to sell a low-end headless Mac? Fine. Kill the Mac mini. Be honest about it. Or update it. Make a decision.

…make a decision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spotcatbug View Post
Even though, as CEO, profit is supposed to be your only motive.
That's a popular refrain, but there's no law (philosophical or otherwise) that really says so.
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Ebby
Subdued and Medicated
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Over Yander
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2018-05-15, 00:12

For me it was the walled garden that fizzled out a lot of enthusiasm. I like apple stuff, but I don't work/live the Apple way. I run into to many really, really dumb hurdles and I've raised up my arms and screamed "WHY!" at my computer more then I care to admit.

When I have to google where some button moved or hid, I felt the team lost their way. I'm sure there are amazing programmers, but I question who's calling the shots now.

And their Pro Apps... OH Lordy! Compare any current app to the one it replaced. It may not have cloud features, but so what; there is SO. MUCH. MORE. The old apps were written with experience, passion, and ambition to be #1! Aperture vs Photos... *Facepalm* That is cheap crap. Anything Photos can do Aperture couldn't could be added as a plugin.

Also, I'm a tad bitter if you couldn't tell. I had 11 years of experience with Final Cut Pro, just graduated in Film, and Apple pulled out the rug from many of us. The FCPX transition sucked, too many missing features and equipment incompatibilities, and the industry turned away to other tools. Then the Blueray licensing powerstruggle kicked in ending any chance of including Apple in our workflows. I got hooooosed by an employer and never recovered

Oh, on a side note, I swapped the CPU's of my 12-core Mac Pro with a couple Xeon X5690's and got a nice bump in speed. . That was an easy upgrade and for $250, I've heard its faster then any Mac Pro apple sells. Woot.

^^ One more quality post from the desk of Ebby. ^^
SSBA | SmockBogger | SporkNET
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Dr. Bobsky
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: A town that Germany forgot.
 
2018-05-16, 09:53

This place was never about Apple. I mean, I jumped ship to PO very shortly after discovering that the AI forums were far more interesting there. What's changed is that we all grew up (well most of us): the raging discussions that left everyone burned were entertaining 15 years ago, but in retrospect seem more like an ignored harbinger of things to come. It was quieter here, even if at times I wasn't. But quieter sometimes doesn't provide the distraction that is needed.

That and I finished my PhD, moved to Europe, etc.

Still miss the regulars. Miss even more the long gone folks like chester (who is likely lurking) and hassan (who isn't).
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Ryan
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Promise Land of Trustafarians
 
2018-05-20, 21:21

I think I first stumbled onto AI when I was maybe 15? So 13 years of this place in various incarnations.

These days my online discussions are mostly Twitter and FlyerTalk—my other nerdy hobby.
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drewprops
Magnificent Basturd™
sagacious-d
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2018-05-21, 01:15

I went back and logged into AI just now and went back and found some of the old threads - may go back and read some crap I wrote back then - will be like reading a stranger's words, no doubt.

EDIT:

Ah the satisfaction of posting a comment to a thread you started SIXTEEN YEARS AGO!!!!

woof

EDIT2:

And now I get a message informing me that I've just joined the 1,000 post club!!!




...

Steve Jobs ate my cat's watermelon.
Captain Drew on Twitter
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Luca
ಠ_ರೃ
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
 
2018-05-22, 00:27

I used to be a regular at so many forums, dating back to around 2000 at Ambrosia Software. I just checked and the Escape Velocity board is still (sort of) active! Then I got into Mac stuff, then switched to Windows and got into general tech, and now Reddit is kind of the place to be.

It's kind of sad that it's so impersonal. Give and take - you can ask just about any question and get an answer at Reddit, learn about practically anything there is to learn about; the wealth of knowledge contained there is incredible. But it's hard to have friends there except on the small subreddits.

Like others have said, Apple isn't really fertile ground for lively discussions anymore. PCs in general kind of aren't, or mobile devices. What is there to talk about? Whether Apple will increase the default storage on the MacBook Pro next revision?

I mean you can still come here and talk pop culture or more bleeding edge technology, but this is an Apple board and thus isn't really the first place most people think of when they want to discuss those things.

All that said, it's nice to see that this place still exists and a few people are still here.
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
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2018-05-22, 12:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca View Post
It's kind of sad that it's so impersonal. Give and take - you can ask just about any question and get an answer at Reddit, learn about practically anything there is to learn about; the wealth of knowledge contained there is incredible. But it's hard to have friends there except on the small subreddits.
Yup.
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spotcatbug
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Clayton, NC
 
2018-05-23, 08:53

I love reddit. Been there since the early days, but, yeah, it's not the same.
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heymargaux
 
 
2018-05-25, 01:54

Maybe some member grew tired of this forum. Facebook does exist and so as Reddit just like what the other member said. We have other stuff to do aside from roaming to this community, what's important is the fact that this forum is still around whenever there's a need for some Apple-related product inquiry.
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RowdyScot
Ice Arrow Sniper
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Great Bay Temple
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2018-05-29, 01:05

For me personally, I kinda grew away from web forums, for the most part. Life happened. A lot. I miss the late night chats with Robo on the MC server back in our original world. I miss the hosket discussions, but I rarely even get to see games anymore except the ones I'm playing in myself. AN reminds me of far simpler times I wish I could have back.

Authentic Nova Scotia bagpipe innards
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tomoe
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
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2018-05-29, 23:03

I was always, and still am, more of a lurker. Didn’t check this place for a long time because work and life kind of consumed me. It was the first online community I encountered back in ~2005–think I found it via a Google query. Didn’t realize pscates2.0 had left—always thought he’d be the last one standing.
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murbot
Mammogram Tech
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Canada
 
2018-05-31, 16:01

I got so busy with kids and life and family deaths and family illnesses and work problems and depression and my golf game and drinking.... and no desire to play Minecraft, so that left me a bit out of the loop, and I guess I sort of drifted away.

Never found any other forums where I made any connections, there are a few I check, I'm a member at a couple (not computer related), but honestly more than half the time I type up a post and end up deleting it because why bother. Just another grain of sand on the pile.

I guess what I'm saying is most of my shit these days is done offline. Man, I don't even own an operational Mac anymore. My golf game is pretty damn good these days though.

My old silver table is taken apart and sitting in the garage, I've been told to sell it. Time marches on, eh?
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