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turbulentfurball
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2009-10-02, 10:13

Anyone else watching coverage of the vote on the TV?

The BBC are saying it's likely to be the closest vote in years, but with Chicago as the favourite. I'm guessing that'll be the city of choice for the majority of our American members here.

Anyone rooting for another city?
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Luca
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2009-10-02, 10:18

For the record, the other candidate cities are Madrid, Rio De Janeiro, and Tokyo.

And although 2016 is a long way off, there's a good chance I'll still be in Minnesota at that time. I'm an 8-hour drive from the city so maybe I'd be able to make it? Certainly it would be a once-in-a-lifetime experience.
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jdcfsu
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2009-10-02, 10:19

I'm watching it on CNN/Live right now. It's a really complicated voting process. I think it'd be cool if it where in Chicago because it'd be more feasible to attend personally. But when it really comes down to it, I don't really care where it is, I just love the Olympics regardless.
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evan
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2009-10-02, 10:25

Houston!
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jdcfsu
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2009-10-02, 10:27

...well, didn't see that coming.
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turbulentfurball
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2009-10-02, 10:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdcfsu View Post
...well, didn't see that coming.
Ditto.

I was expecting Tokyo to go in the first round considering its proximity to Beijing having hosted 2008.
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bassplayinMacFiend
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2009-10-02, 10:31

So Tokyo won the bid?

The winter olympics were held in Nagano not too long ago, right?
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Moogs
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2009-10-02, 10:31

Chicago has been eliminated, surprisingly. I guess they were worried about the first round and having so many voters, most being outside the US sphere of influence. That's OK... fewer traffic nightmares in 2016 for locals.

...into the light of a dark black night.
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turbulentfurball
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2009-10-02, 10:33

Quote:
Originally Posted by bassplayinMacFiend View Post
So Tokyo won the bid?

The winter olympics were held in Nagano not too long ago, right?
The final vote is between Madrid and Rio De Janeiro. Result to be announced later.
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Brad
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2009-10-02, 10:33

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachKrzyzewski View Post
Houston!
Well, everything's bigger in Texas, including ballot-stuffing, I guess.
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Moogs
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2009-10-02, 10:35

Go Rio. It would be a travesty if Juan Antonio's influence kept the games from S. America for the first time. Barcelona had the games in the 90s I believe. That's close enough to vote Rio IMHO. And talk about an economy that could use some help... that could mean jobs for a lot of people who live in borderline poverty.

...into the light of a dark black night.
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bassplayinMacFiend
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2009-10-02, 10:36

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbulentfurball View Post
The final vote is between Madrid and Rio De Janeiro. Result to be announced later.
I should've looked for the answer before posting *ducks*. Thanks for the info.
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bassplayinMacFiend
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2009-10-02, 10:37

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moogs View Post
Go Rio. It would be a travesty if Juan Antonio's influence kept the games from S. America for the first time. Barcelona had the games in the 90s I believe. That's close enough to vote Rio IMHO. And talk about an economy that could use some help... that could mean jobs for a lot of people who live in borderline poverty.
Didn't China go into 30 year debt to pay for last year's Olympics? I was reading that yesterday in some article discussing pros and cons of hosting the Olympics.
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Moogs
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2009-10-02, 10:39

It's possible. I guess it all depends on what you do and how you fund it.
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Foj
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2009-10-02, 11:25

Quote:
Originally Posted by bassplayinMacFiend View Post
Didn't China go into 30 year debt to pay for last year's Olympics?
And that was just for the opening ceremony fireworks.
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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2009-10-02, 11:48



I've always said that if we don't get it, Rio is going to. I guess Madrid could, but I knew Tokyo wouldn't get it. The IOC wants to give the Olympics to each continent - they consider the Americas to be one continent, but still, that's going to help Rio. It's the same reason South Africa is basically guaranteed to get the Olympics in 2020, assuming they don't royally fuck up the World Cup.

We'll see in, hmm, a few minutes?

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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Robo
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2009-10-02, 11:53

Yup! Congratulations, Rio.

If I find out that Rio won because either A) they had that super-biased Wikipedia article or B) Chicago didn't have chicago2016.com registered, I'm going to quit the internet.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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PKIDelirium
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2009-10-02, 12:06

Tokyo was probably the best equipped, for public transportation availability and facilities. Hell, there's like three giant stadiums right next to each other in Yokohama. They probably wouldn't have had to build very much new.

At least in Rio it's in a similar time zone to us in the US so there can hopefully be more live coverage. The time shift for Beijing was a little frustrating sometimes, especially with the basketball games ending at 2AM for me.

I expected Chicago to get it though. It was actually close enough that I could have tried to go to some of the events, and in the time zone right next to me.

Early '09 Mac mini (El Capitan), iPhone 7 (iOS 12.3), iPad Air 2 (iOS 12.3), Mid '10 MacBook Unibody (High Sierra), Mid '05 14" iBook G4 (Tiger)
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Robo
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2009-10-02, 12:14

I've said it before, but I'll say this again:

We (meaning the US) shouldn't try to host the Olympics for at least another decade.

First, we've hosted it eight times - three times more than the next country, France. So we should let others catch up a bit (everybody knows that Paris will get 2024, I mean come on) before trying again.

But there's also increased competition, as Rio sort of represents. They were the "dark horse" candidate, and they walked away with the Games - just like "dark horse" Atlanta did in 1996. (The parallels don't end there - the US hosted the 1996 Games after hosting the 1994 World Cup, and Brazil will host the 2016 Games after hosting the 2014 World Cup.)

I wouldn't try in 2020 or 2024, because again - it's basically guaranteed that South Africa and France will host those years. That's partially because France decided, after losing 2012, to regroup and wait out a few rounds before bidding again, and that will strengthen their bid, I think. We should do the same. But the soonest we could really have another actual chance at hosting would probably be 2028, for the Summer Games.

BUT - we could host the Winter Games sooner, in 2026. I think South Korea is going to (finally!) get them for 2018, their third attempt, to mark the 30th anniversary of their 1988 Summer Games. (Have you noticed how the IOC returns to Asia once a decade? 1988, 1998, 2008, ???) And Tokyo's failed 2016 bid will help their odds.

In 2022, I think it's going to go to New Zealand, for the first Winter Games held in the southern hemisphere. I think they'll get it just as soon as they ask for it, really. Adventure tourism is huge there and, again, I think the IOC wants to really increase the variety of host cities and host continents.

But in 2026, we would have a shot - a real shot. That's really the soonest I think we could be more than just a "dark horse" candidate again (let's be real, NYC was never really in the running in 2012). They could be hosted in Lake Placid, NY, making Lake Placid the third city to host the Olympics three times (assuming Paris gets it in 2024). 2026 is the 250th birthday of the USA and, on a more personal note for New Yorkers, it would mark 25 years since 9/11. So I think the timing is significant. (Especially if we make that Mars trip! )

The days of the US hosting the Olympics four times in 22 years are long gone, but I think the IOC will come back to us...after they hit South America, Africa, and maybe Oceania again. And that's as it should be - I wouldn't want us to monopolize the Games, more than we already have.

The way I see it, we could either keep on bidding in Olympics we don't really have a chance of hosting or we could regroup and wait until we actually have a decent shot, as Paris is so wisely doing. So, Lake Placid 2026!

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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bassplayinMacFiend
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2009-10-02, 12:17

I remember the Lake Placid games back in '80. I'd be happy if they did NY again as I'm old enough to drive there now.
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Robo
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2009-10-02, 12:24

Still, I'm kind of bummed.

Obama was in the unique position of being a sitting President that - assuming he gets re-elected, which is statistically likely - would actually be in office for the whole process, from selection to hosting. And for his own hometown, no less! I love Chicago, and I wanted us to win. But I'm sure everyone in Rio is happy. I think they might have wanted it more than we did.

Now my Chicago '16 logo is worthless.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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Bryson
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Join Date: Feb 2005
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2009-10-02, 13:37

I don't think the USA would get the Winter Games any time soon - they're in Canada next year, see...

As a resident of an Olympic City I'm not so sure about the "economic benefits" people keep going on about. We're paying through teh nose for the 2010 games. (Plus my workplace is between the primary live site, the Olympic Village and the main Stadium. That'll be fun.)
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Robo
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2009-10-02, 14:08

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson View Post
I don't think the USA would get the Winter Games any time soon - they're in Canada next year, see...
2026 is sixteen years after Vancouver, which is double the gap between Vancouver and Salt Lake City 2002...

Just sayin'. In those sixteen years, the Winter Olympics is hitting Europe (Sochi 2014) and will probably hit Asia (PyeongChang is going to get 2018, I can feel it) and maybe Oceania (New Zealand has expressed interest for 2022). I don't think a return to North America for 2026 would be in any way impeded by Vancouver 2010 - if anything, not hosting since 2010 it would help us, because they probably wouldn't want to hit Europe or Asia again so soon.

I'm not sure where else they could go, really. They would have already hit Oceania, and I'm not sure Africa is equipped for a Winter Games. We'd be mainly competing with European nations (Sweden?) again, which might hurt us, but having not hosted since 2010 we'd have, if anything, an upper hand.

It's worth noting that the IOC doesn't have a formal rotation policy, but...they pretty much do, I mean really, and everybody knows it. That's one reason why I knew Tokyo and Madrid wouldn't get 2016, despite having the highest scores on their technical evaluation. (If Toyko is smart, they'll pull a Paris, sit out the next two rounds, and push for 2028.)

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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Bryson
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2009-10-02, 14:28

Weird that they consider North and South America as the same place... I guess Africa is never really in with a shot at the Winter Olympics..
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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2009-10-02, 14:52

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson View Post
Weird that they consider North and South America as the same place...
It's sort of an old-timey thing - we share an Olympic ring and everything. But maybe that will change, now that Rio is hosting (though of course the rings won't change).

In any case, I'm very happy for Rio. That one guy who made hundreds of biased edits to the Rio bid's mammoth Wikipedia page will be pleased

Official Robo predictions for the next 20 years:

2018: PyeongChang, South Korea
2020: Cape Town or Durban, South Africa
2022: Queenstown, New Zealand
2024: Paris, France
2026: Lake Placid, USA (as much as I'd love that joint US-Canada bid, it's not going to happen so soon)
2028: Tokyo, Japan (though this is sort of fuzzy, so who knows...if we don't go for 2026 we could get 2028)

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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Luca
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2009-10-02, 15:00

For whatever reason, some people consider "The Americas" to be a single continent, yet they would never even think to combine Asia, Europe, and Africa into a single continent despite their being a single landmass.
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Robo
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2009-10-02, 15:26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca View Post
For whatever reason, some people consider "The Americas" to be a single continent, yet they would never even think to combine Asia, Europe, and Africa into a single continent despite their being a single landmass.
Well, Eurasia really is one big continent, let's be real. I mean, if a country can be on two "continents" (I'm looking at you, Russia!) then they're really not separate continents at all.

Even as a kid that bothered me. Like, at least North and South America are almost separated - there's the Isthmus of Panama and the Panama Canal and all that. For that reason, I'd also consider Africa its own continent, with the Isthmus of Suez, also bisected by a canal. But there's no such demarcation between Europe and Asia - it's a totally arbitrary remnant of history, not geography.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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Brave Ulysses
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2009-10-02, 16:55

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman View Post
It's sort of an old-timey thing - we share an Olympic ring and everything. But maybe that will change, now that Rio is hosting (though of course the rings won't change).

In any case, I'm very happy for Rio. That one guy who made hundreds of biased edits to the Rio bid's mammoth Wikipedia page will be pleased

Official Robo predictions for the next 20 years:

2018: PyeongChang, South Korea
2020: Cape Town or Durban, South Africa
2022: Queenstown, New Zealand
2024: Paris, France
2026: Lake Placid, USA (as much as I'd love that joint US-Canada bid, it's not going to happen so soon)
2028: Tokyo, Japan (though this is sort of fuzzy, so who knows...if we don't go for 2026 we could get 2028)
Expect to see the US Olympic Committee regroup quickly after this. Lake Placid will not get the Winter Olympics again, nor should it. There is no reason. It is not even close to the premier spot for winter sports in America and the Olympics need the draw/power/economic backing/security enforcement of bigger cities/areas these days.

I expect Tahoe and Denver (or somewhere in Colorado) to express interest in either the 2018 or 2022 games soon. SLC would love to host them again and would do a great job but it'd be hard to get them twice so quickly. Tahoe would make for a great Winter Olympics location. But as with everything in California, there exists too many nimbys to make anything happen. It's for that reason that San Francisco will have problems as well. SF should be our strongest summer olympics candidate but the people in the bay area will just flip over everything.

I think Norway has a higher chance of hosting a Winter Olympics sooner than either South Korea or New Zealand. Lillehammer is still looked upon as the modern model of what an olympics should be.

NYC2012 was just as serious a bid as Chicago by the way, and was seen by many as just as much a favorite. I don't think the problem is wanting to spread the games around, I think it is an anti American sentiment prevalent throughout the IOC now and the fact that America and whatever city is trying doesn't fully get behind their candidate city.


Personally, my dream American site for the Winter Olympics would be Jackson Hole.... that would just be gorgeous.
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Robo
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2009-10-02, 17:07

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses View Post
NYC2012 was just as serious a bid as Chicago by the way, and was seen by many as just as much a favorite.
??? It was always between Paris and London for 2012, always - and Paris was considered the favorite until the very end. From Wikipedia:

"Paris was widely regarded as the firm favourite to become the host city of the 2012 Olympics, considering it lost out on its previous bids for the 1992 and the 2008 Summer Olympics to Barcelona and Beijing, respectively."

"New York City was never seen as a front-runner, and its chances for getting the Games were hurt after Canada secured the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver, British Columbia."

NYC was eliminated in the second round of voting, after Moscow and before Madrid. NYC's chances were never good, even without the Winter Games being hosted on the same continent two years prior.

Also: Denver will probably never host the Olympics, ever. (They bid for the Olympics in 1976 and were awarded the Games, and then later declined them, enraging the IOC.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BU
I think Norway has a higher chance of hosting a Winter Olympics sooner than either South Korea or New Zealand. Lillehammer is still looked upon as the modern model of what an olympics should be.
Perhaps, but I haven't heard that they're actually planning on bidding. Tromsø was going to bid, but they withdrew it. South Korea has bid twice and lost twice, both times after leading the first round of votes (they lost by the second- and third-closest votes in IOC history, respecitively). I think they're going to get 2018 - France's heart really isn't in the Annecy bid, because they want the Summer Games in 2024, and Munich...Idunno. The chances of any European candidate are hurt with the selection of Sochi for 2014, and Munich doesn't have the bid history of PyeongChang.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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Brave Ulysses
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2009-10-02, 17:13

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman View Post
Are you serious? It was always between Paris and London for 2012, always - and Paris was considered the favorite until the very end. From Wikipedia:

"Paris was widely regarded as the firm favourite to become the host city of the 2012 Olympics, considering it lost out on its previous bids for the 1992 and the 2008 Summer Olympics to Barcelona and Beijing, respectively."

"New York City was never seen as a front-runner, and its chances for getting the Games were hurt after Canada secured the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver, British Columbia."

NYC was eliminated in the second round of voting, after Moscow and before Madrid. NYC's chances were never good, even without the Winter Games being hosted on the same continent two years prior.

Also: Denver will probably never host the Olympics, ever. (They bid for the Olympics in 1976 and were awarded the Games, and then later declined them, enraging the IOC.)
Thank you for the history lesson, I am well aware of the events preceding NYC2012's bid. And quoting Wikipedia with a quote like that isn't exactly unbias. The days leading up to the decision there was the same swell of support and hope for the NYC bid that Chicago had gone through. I shouldn't have to point out that NYC at least made it to the 2nd round, unlike Chicago, so that right there kind of suggests that NYC was at least as strong, and arguably a stronger candidate.

Also, despite their 4th place ranking, I don't think anyone honestly didn't think Rio was the frontrunner here so it really doesn't matter if London/Madrid were considered frontrunners for 2012.

I'm also aware of Denver's history with the IOC. It doesn't negate its (and Colorado's) importance and rank in the world of winter sports.
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