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ARM Macs are Real.


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ARM Macs are Real.
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Bryson
Rocket Surgeon
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Whitby
 
2020-06-22, 14:45

Apparently (for now) running the same chips as iPads. 64-bit ARM anyway. Probably more exciting things in the future.

They will run iOS/iPadOS apps as well as Mac apps.

A two year transition period. Intel Macs supposedly confirmed for support for "years" They claim to still be releasing new intel macs in the future.

So, the new hotness? A terrible mistake?
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-06-22, 15:34

The new hotness, and there is no reason to question it. Apple has thought through the entire thing. Rosetta 2 translates the instruction code on installation, meaning the OS does not have to do it on the fly and run the app in an emulation environment. It seems like Apple is well ahead of the game, and I guarantee they have been working on this for years—probably since the A4. The time is right for Apple to relieve itself of 3rd-party silicon, and that is going to include Nvidia and ATI as well. It's going to be huge, it will result in less expensive Macs, increased reliability, regular updates, and improved performance.

And, I now think the first one will be an iMac. It's the one in need of an industrial design change, and that would fit perfectly with a new processor tech, and in the right timeframe (October). In fact, I won't be surprised if a MacBook and an iMac are announced at the same time. One more iMac Intel processor bump later this month or in July, and then a totally new, radically redesigned iMac along with the successor to the MacBook Air, both announced in October.

I will be wrong, guaranteed.

And, yes, the Mac Pro will be along within 2 years, which means it—and its processor—is currently being developed in the lab.

Oh yeah, and Microsoft and Adobe are already all-in. Which means the pro apps are going to be amongst the first out of the gate. Why? Because, as I have been saying, the lion's share of the work was done for iPad so the foundations are already in place.

Also, I'd also like to point out how close I was in predicting the pre-development platform (I predicted the iPad Pro). Turns out, the Mac Mini Apple is using is the exact same processor, which means Mac OS is being developed to run not only on custom Mac silicon, but also on silicon designed for iOS devices.

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Last edited by kscherer : 2020-06-22 at 15:48.
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
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2020-06-22, 19:13

I think it’s a good move for Apple, they have always wanted start to finish control. It also means they can roll out new machines when they want to. It also means the convergence of iOS and desktop OS will be coming soon. Say good bye to things like the Finder and other traditional desktop features once the Intel machines are phased out. Having a team developing one OS and developers only needing to make one app will make Apple, and developers happy.

I suspect Apple will drop Intel support as soon as possible to drive sales of new computers. I’d say as soon as AppleCare warranty runs out on the last shipping Intel Macs, say good bye to OS support. 2025 at the latest is my guess. I sure wouldn’t be buying an Intel Mac today with that in mind.

Will I buy one of the new Macs? Not likely, I’ve needed Mac OS less and less as time goes on. Hard to think of anything other than Apple’s video editing software that keeps me on the platform, and it’s not worth it just for that to be honest.
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Dave
Ninja Editor
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bay Area, CA
 
2020-06-22, 19:27

My laptop is still pretty new, but I'll need a new desktop at some point in the semi-near future. Not sure yet if I want one of the 1st-gen ARM-based Macs.
The dev kit is essentially just an iPad Pro, which I think indicates that the hardware probably won't be as "brand new" as one might normally think, so I might not be as wary of 1st-gen hardware as I would otherwise be.

When I was a kid, people who did wrong were punished, restricted, and forbidden. Now, when someone does wrong, all of the rest of us are punished, restricted, and forbidden... and the one who did the wrong is counselled and "understood" and fed ice cream.
  quote
drewprops
Bastard
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2020-06-22, 20:22

My current laptop will be 6 years old in October. Do you suppose a lappy purchased in October of this year would be supported for as long?


...
  quote
Dave
Ninja Editor
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bay Area, CA
 
2020-06-22, 20:49

Quote:
Originally Posted by drewprops View Post
My current laptop will be 6 years old in October. Do you suppose a lappy purchased in October of this year would be supported for as long?


...
Dunno, but with its power efficiency I’d assume that the first Mac Apple will stock an ARM in will be one (or more) of their laptops. I’d wait for them if you can.

When I was a kid, people who did wrong were punished, restricted, and forbidden. Now, when someone does wrong, all of the rest of us are punished, restricted, and forbidden... and the one who did the wrong is counselled and "understood" and fed ice cream.
  quote
PKIDelirium
Nobody bumps my lock
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Xenia, Ohio
 
2020-06-22, 21:20

These OS UI updates really seem like a post-Ive thing to me, and I like it.
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drewprops
Bastard
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2020-06-23, 00:47

I agree. The sparseness of Ive's design kept trending toward grey nothingness. We're ready for some tweed and corduroy around here!


...
  quote
kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-06-23, 12:16

Yeah, Big Sur looks really nice. Very good stuff, although I would be willing to bet that at least some of Ive's stuff is still in there. The development cycles are just too long for it to be gone this soon.

Anyway, that kind of talk will sidetrack the thread. There is now a Big Sur thread for all things MacOS 11.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
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PKIDelirium
Nobody bumps my lock
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Xenia, Ohio
 
2020-06-24, 02:56

I just meant in general, both MacOS new window styling and the myriad of things in iOS (widgets, app library/deleting pages, new Siri interface, etc) that seem like things Ive would have vetoed for not following his "style guide".

Early '09 Mac mini (El Capitan), iPhone 7 (iOS 12.3), iPad Air 2 (iOS 12.3), Mid '10 MacBook Unibody (High Sierra), Mid '05 14" iBook G4 (Tiger)
Kings Island Site, Horribly Outdated Flickr
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MBHockey
skates=grafs
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: New York
 
2020-07-06, 08:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
The new hotness, and there is no reason to question it. Apple has thought through the entire thing. Rosetta 2 translates the instruction code on installation, meaning the OS does not have to do it on the fly and run the app in an emulation environment. It seems like Apple is well ahead of the game, and I guarantee they have been working on this for years—probably since the A4. The time is right for Apple to relieve itself of 3rd-party silicon, and that is going to include Nvidia and ATI as well. It's going to be huge, it will result in less expensive Macs, increased reliability, regular updates, and improved performance.

And, I now think the first one will be an iMac. It's the one in need of an industrial design change, and that would fit perfectly with a new processor tech, and in the right timeframe (October). In fact, I won't be surprised if a MacBook and an iMac are announced at the same time. One more iMac Intel processor bump later this month or in July, and then a totally new, radically redesigned iMac along with the successor to the MacBook Air, both announced in October.

I will be wrong, guaranteed.

And, yes, the Mac Pro will be along within 2 years, which means it—and its processor—is currently being developed in the lab.

Oh yeah, and Microsoft and Adobe are already all-in. Which means the pro apps are going to be amongst the first out of the gate. Why? Because, as I have been saying, the lion's share of the work was done for iPad so the foundations are already in place.

Also, I'd also like to point out how close I was in predicting the pre-development platform (I predicted the iPad Pro). Turns out, the Mac Mini Apple is using is the exact same processor, which means Mac OS is being developed to run not only on custom Mac silicon, but also on silicon designed for iOS devices.
I hope so! as someone in the market for a new iMac, it's frustrating looking at the current options. I would like to see an iMac Pro update but I'm more and more convinced it was a stopgap to get to the current Mac Pro.
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Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-07-07, 15:25

What sorts of iOS features make their way to MacOS then? I’m sort of interested in the idea of Microsoft’s Surface Studio - their desktop easel type AIO - as a photo editing/retouching rig. And have always been intrigued by Wacom’s Cintiq, but the prices of either aren’t exactly appealing. Bring it down to an iMac price, and with Apple’s bulletproof integration, and I’ll probably want one enough to start paying monthly tithes to Adobe.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-07-07, 15:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
What sorts of iOS features make their way to MacOS then?
I'm not sure that they do. I think there is the possibility of Apple developing something like that, but it appears they want the Mac to be the Mac, iPads to be iPads, iPhones to be iPhones, etc. The operating systems are growing closer in feature set, but further away in terms of versions (iOS was broken into iPhone/iPad versions, for instance). The Mac using the same processor does not equal the same software. I don't think the lines are going to "merge".

At least I hope not. The iPad is still a horrible word processor, even with the new keyboard.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
  quote
chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2020-07-08, 04:20

I think Apple is trying hard not to repeat a Windows 8, which was bad for existing users who felt uncomfortable with the changes, and not better enough compared to the iPad for new users. They toned the radical release down in 8.1, and further in 10.

(Would shipping an iPadOS-like completely separate Windows Tablet 8 have worked for Microsoft? I'm not sure.)

I don't think there's a long-term trajectory where the Mac and the iPad are the same thing. Instead, I think there will be things that remain unique to the Mac, and things unique to the iPad. Which ones? Who's to say. Right now, only the Mac has things like Full Disk Access and dual-boot, and only the iPad has a home screen and touch. Merging those too much runs risk of a jack of all trades, master of none situation.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-07-08, 11:39

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
risk of a jack of all trades, master of none situation.
Exactly. While elements within Apple's ecosystem seem a bit out of focus (Apple TV+, the weird entry MacBook Pro, iPods, etc.), the categories themselves are very tightly focused. Apple Music is Apple Music, the Mac is the Mac, the iPhone is the iPhone, etc.

An ARM Mac is still going to be a Mac, because it is MacOS that separates it from all competitors. The processor has changed so many times (always for the better) that we can never differentiate the "Mac" by the processor it runs. Apple uses whatever processor is the best under the current circumstances. Knowing this, we can come to the conclusion that it is not the processor that makes the Mac, but the Mac that makes the processor. And ARM will permit Apple to make the best Mac yet!

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
  quote
Brave Ulysses
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2020-07-08, 12:19

The Mac can be the Mac but it is very stupid to ignore the fact that even on a desktop or laptop computer, touch can be a better user interface than a cursor for some applications. The longer Apple goes without admitting this and doing something about it the more I question whether they are willing to blur the lines or “cross the streams” to truly push the Mac forward and produce the best Mac they can and one that is prepared for the next generation of computer users who grew up entirely on touch interfaces.
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