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The Mandalorian *SPOILERS*


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View Poll Results: Name the Green Kid
Baby Yoda 2 22.22%
The Child 2 22.22%
Little Green Frog 0 0%
Baby Frog 0 0%
Froggy McFrogface 2 22.22%
Force McFrog 3 33.33%
Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

The Mandalorian *SPOILERS*
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pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-11-18, 19:26

Yeah, I knew these were aired on Cartoon Network and geared toward younger viewers, but they don't seem outright stupid like a lot of animated fare. So far, they've not seemed "written for spoon-fed dumbasses" and, as an adult, I don't feel too weird watching them. Some animated/cartoon shows - even ones aimed squarely at grown-ups - are just unwatchable to me (a lot of that weirdo Adult Swim horseshit ), but, so far, I'm liking this one.

What I've seen so far seems well-written and appropriately "Star Wars-y" enough that I don't feel like I'm watching some crazy, "made for ages 4-9" version of something. And even if it is, Filoni and crew seem to be expecting a bit more of their 4-9 year old viewers. Which is always nice. I certainly couldn't - and wouldn't - watch a Barney-like take on the property.

It has a great look, and I like the stylized take on characters (apart from Dooku).

And it certainly sounds like Star Wars (I even heard a Wilhelm scream in an episode I watched last night).

There are a lot to get through, but maybe I can do so by the end of the year.

Do you have any idea a) why the 2003 2D animated series isn't on Disney+, b) where in the world would I even find it at this point, and c) does it take place before, after or concurrently with the 3D/CGI series from 2008-and-beyond that I'm watching now? Am I "messing up" by watching this series first? Do Ventress, Ziro and others make earlier appearances in the earlier 2003 2D series? Because both of them just kinda showed up here, as though maybe they've been around already and were already established to viewers of the earlier run of the series? Or are they making their first appearance in the 2008 ones?

I'd hate to think I'm missing big chunks of backstory or exposition, but I don't see the 2003 series on Netflix or Disney+. I doubt they're on Hulu or Amazon either. Did Disney not acquire the rights to those? Because they're currently showing every other SW property on Disney+ except for that one. I can't figure out why that one isn't offered (because I'd probably watch it first, just because it was released five years earlier than the one I'm watching now and that's how everyone else saw it all).

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2020-11-18 at 19:41.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-11-18, 19:33

We watched the 2d stuff on Netflix. But I haven't looked recently.

And, yes, things go in order.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-11-18, 19:43

Well crap...I'm probably missing out on some stuff then, if the 2D one should be watched first.

I checked Netflix the other day, wondering if maybe it got left behind for some reason...no dice. No other SW offerings on Netflix currently, which is to be expected once Disney+ fired up.
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2020-11-18, 19:48

The full 2003 2D series is on YouTube, probably illegally but hasn't been taken down yet. It's definitely worth watching before you get too deep, because yes, a few of the characters do make showings. It's a couple hours long but it'd make for a nice popcorn+nacho evening.

So it goes.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-11-18, 19:50

Ah, you're the guy! Thank you.

I looked everywhere except YouTube...and I'm on there ALL THE TIME!
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pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-11-19, 17:46

OMGosh, she is adorable.



That's the sort of enthusiasm and appreciation I like to see from an actor when they're involved in something they genuinely enjoy/appreciate, and that they know the fans love as well.

Take notes, Harrison and Carrie (well...).

It's obvious she loves being involved in these shows, playing this character. I hope Favreau rewards that and gives her plenty more to do in coming episodes/seasons.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-11-20, 04:24

Ah, a good episode! More action and blaster-play in 40 minutes than any other episode, I think.

I’ll discuss more later today/tonight, but some highlights...

***DEFINITELY SPOILERS BELOW, SO STOP AND GO AWAY NOW IF YOU DONT WANNA KNOW/HEAR THINGS!!’***





- The Child cuteness level was off the charts. The first minute alone... You’ll see. “No, the red one...”. So cute.

- Lots of stormtroopers and verbal/visual callbacks to the 1977 movie/Death Star type of sequences/action...a TK call-number transmission, “there they are, blast them!”, the general look of some control panels/hardware and architecture/stylings of a facility

- Some sweet TIE fighter and speeder bike action

- The Child is never NOT hungry, huh?

- The show is getting its money’s worth on that jet pack! Any chance they have to show it off, they do.

- As I expected/predicted, no development on the you-know-who front, but definitely some on The Child and why Moff Gideon wants him; an unexpected scene that points to something sinister going on and why the blood of the child is needed and how it’s being put to use. Some crazy stuff going on there; I can’t help but think back to that one scene in The Rise of Skywalker that seemed to point to failed versions/clones(?) of a certain character, and if perhaps there’s actually some direct link from things sought/pursued by Gideon in this show that tie directly to the sequel trilogy, set three decades later? Maybe it’ll help explain the existence of one character, and the idiotic return of another, since the movie itself couldn’t be bothered to help out?

- Cara Dune...damn, she is fine. And awesome. She’s fun to watch. Resourceful, savvy, tough.

- Rebel X-wing pilots are like the police, post ROTJ.

- The Empire didn’t fall/disintegrate after the events of ROTJ and the destruction of the second Death Star. Still plenty of personnel, bases and ships remaining, with loyal, true believers still on the job. I can see how this bunch became the First Order. As much as this show hinges on/nods to the past (OT, Clone Wars), this latest episode seems to have ties to the future, and people/events of the sequel trilogy, three-plus decades down the road (if I’m reading some things correctly).

- Moff Gideon, in the flesh. Always nice to see Mr. Esposito doing his thing. Great addition to the SW saga.

- Who knew Apollo Creed was a director?

Definitely not a filler episode. The overall story re: The Child got advanced/illuminated a bit, lots of action and fun, some humor (“there’s no guardrail!”) and it makes me look very forward to the second half/final four episodes to come.

As I've seen noted by several others - and I believe it's true, having watched them again - we've now seen, in episodes 1-4, everything shown in all the trailers and promos for season two (the ship on the water, the speeder chase, the jetpack on the cliff, the speeder bikes riding down the cliff, Mando and Greef shaking hands, etc.). That means, heading forward with episodes 5-8...we've seen, and know, nothing. Pretty slick!

To me, that's a good thing! They're not gonna blow any big showdowns or reveals involving Gideon, Ahsoka, Bo Katan or possibly even Boba Fett, so we're heading into completely unknown, unspoiled surprise territory these next four weeks. And that's obviously by design. I love that. Anything can happen. And I do think we're going to lose a good guy before episode 8/chapter 16 ends. And I can see it being anyone who isn't Mando, unfortunately.

Sometimes you gotta break a few eggs to make a meaningful, dramatic omelet.

Okay, back to sleep for another three hours...zzzzzzz.

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2020-11-20 at 10:33.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-11-20, 09:44

PS - I realized why Cara Dune might appeal to me so much...there were 3-4 scenes where she looked A LOT like Mariska Hargitay, especially from those first 5-6 seasons of SVU.

And y’all know how I loves me some MH.

PS #2 - I've said it before, but episodes like this really drive it home: it's hard to believe this is a TV show sometimes. I know it's a lot of CGI and projection tech responsible for much of that overall look/vibe, but damn...does it ever look amazing and so "big" and cinematic. You could stitch some of these related episodes together into a two-plus hour feature and show them on the big screen at the multiplex and it would feel every bit as "movie-ish" and "Star Wars-y" as the rest. Even more so (writing and overall tone-wise), in some cases.

It kinda makes me sad to realize that Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni should've been the ones to head up/plan/write/cast the sequel trilogy. I truly mean that.

This show isn't perfect, no. But it "gets" the property/tropes/lore in a way J.J. Abrams and Rian Johnson never did. I think I could've loved a sequel trilogy - whether or not Hamill and the others were involved - had they simply been in the hands of people who obviously truly love and get the property, and weren't setting out to undo/subvert all that had come before or to make it through of-the-moment filters/mores. Because, unlike the OT (and, to some degree, even the PT), these latest ones aren't timeless and they will not age well. They're too Earth-bound, too heavily tied to current culture. They positively scream "made in 2015-2019", where the others don't say 1977 or 1980 or even 1999-2005 to me at all (I'm not talking about the visuals/effects, mind you).

It's night and day in the approach, big and small. This show is so understated and exposition-free at times. I love that, as a viewer. I may not love every single episode - but I do like them all, for various reasons - but I've never once felt dumb, insulted or yanked around by the 12 installments I've seen. Even the slower, quieter parts keep me engaged more than any chase or shootout in the sequel installments. The worst I can say about them is that they're a bit tied to the OT and other previous, existing stories. But would anyone want to watch if they weren't? I don't know, but they appear to be working, their current approach. And as long as they introduce new, unique aspects and plot lines to play off the stuff we already kinda know about, then that should be a nice mix that works.

If I were running things, Abrams and Kennedy would be gone, long ago (or, more accurately, never brought on board to start with), and folks like Favreau and Filoni - and their handpicked collaborators/associates - would be overseeing Star Wars. Give those guys a new feature film - or trilogy - to play with. I bet it'll be enjoyable, no matter when it's set or who/what it centers around. But it'll feel like Star Wars. Which is kinda important if you're gonna slap that name on it.

You can't just set something in space or funky planets, throw in some lightsabers and "pew pew pew" and have it all magically hang together and work. I think that's been clearly demonstrated.

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2020-11-20 at 12:24.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-11-22, 02:40

"There's no safety rail on this thing!"











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pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-11-22, 03:32

That made me chuckle. The Empire/First Order hates those things, for sure.

BTW, I didn’t know until yesterday that character, Mythrol, is played by SNL’s Horatio Sanz. That entire episode, it was driving me crazy...”I recognize that voice...that’s someone I know, under all the makeup/prosthetics”, but I never got around to looking it up. I was watching a review/recap on YouTube yesterday and it was noted by the host/narrator and immediately I was “ah...yes!”

With Jason Sudekis’ speeder bike trooper in season one, that’s two SNL cast members making an appearance. I have to believe Bill Hader shows up at some point, likely helmeted/masked/heavy makeup or providing voice work, if he hasn’t already. He’s a big SW fan and did some of the sound/vocalization work for BB-8, so he’s already got his foot in the door with Disney/Lucasfilm. I’m sure they’ve told him “whatever/whenever you want...”.

But he might enjoy just being a detached fan/viewer.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-11-22, 10:05

Something hit me.

Say we did get a Luke name-drop or even some labored, CGI-drenched cameo and this season ends with The Child going off to be trained at Luke’s new Jedi academy, which The Last Jefi made clear that’s what he was doing in those years following ROTJ, before everything went sideways and he exiled himself.

What if, down the road, we somehow learn that an older, adolescent “baby Yoda” (I hate that name) was among the students killed by Kylo and the Knights?

They wouldn’t even have to spell it out, just imply that’s where he was ultimately taken and, sadly, would’ve been among those killed prior to Like walking away from it all?



If this show is going to have some ties/links to the events in the sequels (Force-infused cloning efforts, the First Order rising from the Empire, etc.), then our little green Force frog baby could certainly be among the pupils at Luke’s academy in those years leading up to Luke vanishing.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-11-22, 17:33

I watched the 2003 2D animated Clone Wars on YouTube. Only took two hours (two sets of ten three-minute episodes, seasons 1 and 2, and then five 12-minute episodes (season 3), leading directly to the beginning of Episode III: Revenge of the Sith.

So now I'll continue with the CGI ones on Disney+, where I'm about 6-7 episodes into the first season.

Those are quite a bit longer, and way more episodes (20 or so) per season (seven), so that's gonna take some time, but I'll try to take in at least 1-2 a day if I can. Holiday week coming up, and some heavy rains forecast later in the week, so I might have the opportunity to knock out quite a few in the next 5-7 days.
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drewprops
Bastard
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2020-11-22, 18:05

Awesome!

For someone whose shortest posts on Star Wars threads run at 3,000 characters, you are going to have a fabulous time.


...
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pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-11-22, 18:32

I don't wanna hear it.

Folks rode my ass for an entire year about The Mandalorian, and, more recently, The Clone Wars. I finally take everyone's advice, mostly to get folks to STFU, and, lo and behold, I find I actually enjoy both. So there.

As for the rest, this show has singlehandedly helped me to enjoy/appreciate Star Wars again, after a solid four-plus years of truly thinking that may never happen again. That's a big deal for me.

So if I get a little passionate or unrestrained in my discussion/interest...deal with it.

As for The Clone Wars, the 2D series from 2003 were little bite-size nuggets, but nothing too deep or memorable (I liked the drawing/style, but I honestly couldn't tell you much about any particular episode, and I just watched them all last night and this afternoon). But, what I've seen so far of the newer 2008-and-later CGI ones, are very enjoyable...bigger, more in-depth, dramatic/serious, etc. Some of what I've seen there could translate to live-action and feel quite "normal" and non-cartoonish, IMO.
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Dr. Bobsky
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: UK's most densely packed city. It's not London...
 
2020-11-22, 18:48

Doesn't it strike you that the characters on this show are more one dimensional than those in the first trilogy? There's no there there.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-11-22, 19:31

At times, sure. I've said above, in a couple of places, that it's not perfect, and that I've not loved every single thing. But the things I do like/enjoy far outweigh the stuff I don't. And, frankly, I find the less-than parts of this show way more enjoyable than the high points (pretend there were some) of any of the three sequel trilogy installments.

YMMV, but that's my honest feelings on the matter. This show entertains me and makes me look forward to the next installment. Those movies did not.

What I do have a slight issue with is the talk of a Boba Fett series, which, honestly, I kinda thought this show was a suitable stand-in for. I don't like the idea of there being two hard-case, similarly-outfitted bounty hunter types in two separate shows because that just wastes the opportunity to do something different...whatever that may be.

I don't want them to put all their eggs in the "cool helmet" basket and overplay their hand. I don't see how a show centered around Boba Fett could be all that unique and different from what we're already getting. So unless they're going to make him a musician or traveling magician or something, I'm just not all that interested in another one of these kind of shows.

I kinda found everyone "one dimensional" in the 1977 release, to be honest. All clear-cut "he's this, she's that, they're this, those guys are that...". And that's fine. It served the story, for what it was. Luke and Vader changed over the trilogy, but nobody else really did, IMO.

I find this show enjoyable in a way that I didn't the big-screen outings because, for better or for worse, it doesn't seem to be trying too hard. And I don't mean that as any sort of slam at all...I know hard work goes into any project like this. But I mean in the overall tone and appeal, it seems to hit the marks people enjoy, and spare some of the things that sunk those movies. Fan service, in and of itself, isn't bad or unwelcome. But, like everything, there's good and bad ways to go about it. This show just seems more matter-of-fact and casual about it, while those movies seemed to beat you over the head with things.

Would I change a few things about this show, in terms of characters and pacing and how things play out? Yeah. But nobody from Disney/Lucasfilm is asking me, so I just have to go with it.

If it's between this imperfect, but enjoyable, fun show and those poorly-written, dipshit sequel entries that ended the saga on a sad, WTF?! whimper...I'm gonna throw in with the former. Because it feels more like what I've spent most of my life watching/enjoying (the OT).

I remember saying, a year ago, that I think it's gonna be hard to base a show around a character we never see, who "doesn't have a face". The most one-dimensional character on the show, oddly enough, is the title/lead character. At some point they're going to have to figure out a way around that because I don't think the current approach is sustainable, long-term. Frankly, it's hard to give a shit about someone you can't see/relate to. I know that's weird, but there is a disconnect there for me. I'd rather see something bad happen to Mando than any other regular character on the show (The Child, Cara Dune, Greef and, yes, even Moff Gideon), because he's a faceless statue and only does about 2-3 things total - shoot people, fly his ship and stand around being all Man With No Name - (which is why we don't need another show of someone acting the same kind of way...the SW streaming universe can't consist solely of shows centered around taciturn, hair-triggered hard-cases in full-time helmets). So, yeah...I do kinda find him one-dimensional. He's actually my least favorite aspect of the show, and I’ve talked about this upthread as well.

The rest? No more so than I found Luke, Han, Leia, Vader and Tarkin in 1977 (or, more accurately, viewing them as an adult these past 30 years).

It's enough, for now, that I don't have to roll my eyes and grit my teeth at the mere mention of Star Wars. That hasn’t been the case for several years.

One-dimensional, I can handle*

Incoherent, joyless and point-missing noise? Not so much.




*I spent 5-6 solid years wasting my time with the pointless, circular, nobody-ever-learns-anything-and-all-these-characters-deserve-to-die slog that is The Walking Dead...and more than a decade on those silly MCU movies. I know all about “one-dimensional” fare.

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2020-11-23 at 05:03.
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RowdyScot
Ice Arrow Sniper
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Great Bay Temple
Send a message via AIM to RowdyScot Send a message via Skype™ to RowdyScot 
2020-11-23, 04:46

I'm still shocked nobody mentioned that Skippy seemed to be alive and well from S2:E2. Well, I guess "Skippy" isn't canon anymore...I just like to think it is.

Authentic Nova Scotia bagpipe innards
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pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-11-23, 09:11

I just read the Wookiepedia entry on Skippy/R5-D4. Interesting. I had no idea. Even in canon, it seems the "bad motivator" thing was a ruse, with R5 sabotaging himself to ensure R2 got sold by the Jawas and could find his way to Obi-Wan.

I'm sure, at the time, none of this was thought about or planned, it's just stuff built up in the years/decades since.

Still kinda interesting.

Man, the whole saga is so fractured and confusing now, regarding "canon", Legends and all the retconning and made-up horseshit to explain this or that over the decades.

It's why I've always just kinda stuck to the movies, even though I've only really liked about three of them. I bought a few comic books back in the day and read a couple of the EU novels and just realized "uhh...no, I'm not heading down this convoluted, time-sucking rabbit hole the rest of my life. Screw that."

But now it's even worse with all the post-Disney stuff now being "official" (which is just...tragic, frankly).

All Disney had to do was follow what had already been laid out, established and accepted by fans. Or gone with Lucas' plans when they purchased the property. I think he was miffed that they didn't...and I don't blame him. I'm sure whatever he had in mind couldn't have been any worse than what came to be (but even if it was, it was his story all along, so I could've been okay with that; I would've rather had a weirdo, less-than trilogy from the mind of George Lucas than anything we got from Abrams/Johnson/Kennedy). He's a good idea guy, and as long as he didn't actually write the script and direct them, I would've loved to have seen his vision of episodes 7-9.

A true sequel trilogy in the hands of actual writers and directors who weren't looking to just soft-reboot/rehash everything we've already experienced would've been quite a thing. I'd love to see it happen someday, but I know it won't/can't.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-11-23, 09:54

As big and sprawling - and for the decades of time involved - that it's all managed to hang together at all is quite a feat. This thing became bigger than anyone could've possibly ever expected/dreamed heading into spring 1977.

I sometimes like to imagine/think about various "what if" scenarios (had certain public figures never been assassinated, had Pearl Harbor never been attacked, had some junior high classmate beaten Adolf Hitler on the playground to such a degree that he was a brain-damaged pussy for the remainder of his life and just painted in a rented basement somewhere until dying of tuberculosis at 27 (I put a long tail on that kite, didn't I? ), had the Mercury program had a half-dozen major failures/deaths on the launchpad and the whole U.S. space program was abandoned, had the Beatles never gotten out of the clubs in Liverpool and Hamburg, had MTV and the whole idea of "music videos" never taken off, etc.). All these things that shaped/defined the world (or significant parts of it, anyway), that we just kinda take for granted and that we just can't imagine not having happened/existing.

And one of those things I sometimes go to is "what if Star Wars had totally bombed in 1977, and was just seen as some sort of pop culture punchline all these decades?", as is the case with so many movies. Imagine all that wouldn't be, all that sprung from that...including the careers of dozens, if not hundreds, of people, the theme park presence, the toys/merchandising, the catchphrases and shared shorthand we all know, the other eight movies and all other media, etc.

For the type of movie it was, and with all the snags they encountered while making it, this could've easily been a gigantic flop and been out of theaters within weeks...and the only people even talking about it, four decades later, would be hipster standup comics and diehard cosplayers in their "obscure" Darth Vader and Jawa costumes at various conventions (where Logan's Run and Space: 1999 might've been the huge, SW-level franchises that everyone latched onto instead).

Everything just happened to go right.

I remember the night I first saw it with my parents and sister. I loved it, but they were all kinda laughing about it in the car on the way home. "Why are they doing that?", I still remember thinking. "Am I wrong/weird for liking it so much?" I managed to see it in the theater three more times throughout the summer. It's all my buddies and I talked about, all summer and on into the school year. We had no toys to play with, of course, during that period (the infamous "oops...we weren't prepared for this on the licensing/merchandising front", which they seem to have made up for since).

But man, there was indeed that amazing period between spring/summer 1977 and Christmas 1978 (by which time the toys were out in full force - no pun) that was just so fun. As the toys began to roll out in 1978, my buddy and I would coordinate with our parents and grandparents on the two gift-giving holidays (Christmas and our birthdays, both of which took place for both of us between December 25 and January 26, so every year until 1981 or so was a month-long orgy of SW goodness), ensuring that we both got different, non-overlapping toys, so that, when we went to each other's houses on the weekends or to spend the night, we had the widest array of toydom possible...I had the Cantina, Death Star, Droid Factory, Landspeeder, he had the TIE Fighter, X-wing and other things I didn't have, plus the Death Star (which we would combined into an even larger Death Star playset (two elevators, two cannons up top, two trash compactors down below, etc.), and I think we both wound up with the Kenner Millennium Falcon, but that was the only real overlap. And we both had various figures, and we actually sought out multiple Stormtroopers, Death Star commanders, Jawas, etc. so there would be 3-4 of those types of figures so things were more movie like (there's never just one stormtrooper in a scene, right?). This was all by design/planning. And when we brought it all together, holy smokes...it was beautiful. A toy catalog come to life.

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2020-11-23 at 10:20.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-11-24, 19:30

I'm really enjoying that Clone Wars CGI animated series. Anakin and Obi-Wan aren't really doing much for me, but Ahsoka is so spunky/feisty and impossible not to root for (unfortunately, I'm not going to make it through her entire animated arc before this week's Mandalorian installment, so I'll just have to go back and let The Clone Wars and Rebels fill in those gaps of her younger years, after seeing her adult, real-life version Friday). And I love the troopers...loyal, fearless hard-cases to the end! I noticed last night, watching a couple of episodes, how they call everyone - including Ahsoka and Luminara - "sir".

First time I heard it, I thought "was that a voiceover/dubbing error?", but then it kept happening.

"Right away, sir!", etc. Makes me smile. Ahsoka doesn't seem bothered by it. Might be some sort of military protocol thing, or something to do with the cloning, I don't know. Everyone's just "sir" to them.

And the lovely Ms. Ventress keeps getting lots of screen time and stuff to do. She's like a snake, even her voice is hissy. I'd love to see a live-action take on her. (10-15 years ago, I think maybe someone like Natasha Hentsridge might've been a good choice for the role, properly made-up/outfitted?). Maybe the character can factor in somehow to that Obi-Wan series, but the timelines might not work (I think she's gone prior to Dooku dying at the start of ROTS, and the Kenobi show is to be set between episodes 3 and 4). I was reading her Wookiepedia entry (it goes on forever), and she had quite a life as well. I do like that character a lot. She's genuinely creepy/scary at times. I'd hate to run into her...

General Grievous is now factoring in quite a bit as well. He's quite a coward. In 2-3 scenes (and in a couple in the 2D animated series) he pushes droids and anything else out of his way to get to his ship to escape a doomed, in-trouble cruiser he's on. He just bolts and leaves everyone else behind.

He's a better villain in this animated form than he ever was in Revenge of the Sith. But I think he's a lot of talk, and no heart. He couldn't even take out Ahsoka, even when he got the drop on her a couple of times. I think he looks better on paper than how he's ever come across on screen (big or small). A neat idea, but something in the execution didn't fully take. Kinda like Captain Phasma? Could've/should've been so much more, handled correctly.

Glad he's dead. Thanks, Obi-Wan.

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2020-11-24 at 19:51.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-11-24, 19:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
…Ahsoka is so spunky/feisty and impossible not to root for…
Yeah, I'm telling you, it takes a very well-written character (even within the Star Wars universe) to be 100% animated and still jump out and become my favorite! Hard not to fall in love with her.

I won't give anything away, but her story is just heart-breaking!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
Mr. Ventress


Do I need to get you some goggles?

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
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pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-11-24, 19:51

Haha...maybe a new keyboard. Fixing now...
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pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-11-24, 19:56

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
Yeah, I'm telling you, it takes a very well-written character (even within the Star Wars universe) to be 100% animated and still jump out and become my favorite! Hard not to fall in love with her.

I won't give anything away, but her story is just heart-breaking!
I think I might have a general idea of what plays out, from reading/skimming her Wookiepedia entry a week or so ago. I think she gets done wrong by the very ones she shouldn't expect it from? I don't know how it all plays out exactly, having just skimmed a few paragraphs here and there, but I bet I know what you're talking about.

Glad she walked. If you can't trust your friends to stand by you...

I'm only about halfway (episode 11-12 out of 22) into season 1, so I have a looooooong way to go, still. But at 2-3 a night (as I've been doing) and the remaining on the weekends, I could, in theory, knock out one season a week. And if I step that up during Christmas downtime, I could have the entire series finished by the end of the year.

Then I guess I have to do Rebels following that?

At which point I should have all made-for-screen SW media under my belt...all 11 theatrical movies, all animated TV series, the current live-action series and even the 1978 Holiday Special.

Am I missing anything? I think there was some Ewok-based kids show, but I'm not watching that.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-11-25, 00:11

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
Then I guess I have to do Rebels following that?
Rebels is also very good, and moves through a continuing (mostly) story arch. It's an entirely different part of the Star Wars universe and helps to set up the beginnings of the rebellion whilst Vader continues to hunt down anything even remotely shaped like a Jedi. It also introduces lots of other baddies and lots of good light saber duals.

FYI, no one ever gets any better at shooting blasters, unless it's convenient to the plot.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
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pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-11-25, 04:49

Clumsy and random, as some guy once said.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-11-25, 11:55

Who knows, maybe there's actually something to that, the random part I mean. Maybe blaster bolts aren't very accurate? I mean, they're not "lasers" in the traditional sense. Maybe blaster bolts are some kind of condensed energy thing that sort of have a mind of their own and don't fly in straight lines? Kind of like machine gun rounds that, because of kick-back, kind of scatter about in all directions?

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
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pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-11-25, 12:09

It would explain the stormtroopers' inability to hit anything but wall panels. But they must be better shots than Sandpeople, as Obi-Wan pointed out.

Han was an awesome shot - hit everything he aimed for - without ever using the scope attached to his blaster (maybe once on Endor).

The Empire should've hired him to run the stormtrooper firing range and give lessons.

So it's all just a mess, really. "Random", indeed. As in "everyone is as good, or bad, a shot as the plot demands", as you said above.

Like every cowboy, crime or war movie in existence, I suppose.



PS - Two more days, and we see the lovely Ms. Dawson all painted orange with white stripes, and big blue eyes.

Please, please, please don't make her a retread of Luke from the sequels.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-11-25, 13:36

The ice is thin, my friend, the ice is thin.

They had better get it right.

P.S. I will be out of town starting this evening, and will not be on the forums or watching anything until Sunday evening. And I will not be watching any "guess what" videos, either!

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
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pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-11-27, 04:58

Never has an animated character been so convincingly, perfectly brought to real life.

Whoever was responsible for the casting, makeup, wardrobe, hardware, choreography, etc. nailed it.

Lots of reveals, Easter eggs and ties to the overall saga. Three name drops - one completely out of nowhere - that people will appreciate...animated, OT and the EU(!). And a direct reference to a certain Jedi, and his path, spoken by the character who’d know most, will thrill viewers. She didn’t have to say his name, but everyone will know.

Possibly the most fan-pleasing episode yet, in terms of existing in a world we know/recognize/live.

In fact, this one episode, via some dialogue, spanned/encompassed all of SW lore/timelines as no other ever has. In just a matter of minutes, the prequels, Clone Wars, animated shows, the OT and the EU all seamlessly existed and were represented. The word “epic” is overused/misused, but it kinda applies here, just in terms of scale/scope of how “Star Wars-y” this episode was. To hear one character reference all these events/periods/characters was really interesting and cool. Everyone was thrown a bone.

“You like the animated Clone Wars show? Here you go. Oh, you’re into those EU things? Enjoy! You dig the OT? This is for you. Fan of the prequels? You’re welcome! Enjoy, everyone...”.

And The Child now has a name. And quite a past himself.

The Leone/Eastwood spaghetti western trappings in this episode, in a couple of scenes, was off the charts. You could practically hear the Ennio Morricone soundtrack. The only thing missing was a horse and some tumbleweeds.

On the surface, it’s looking like this episode’s long-awaited guest character is a one-and-done appearance, serving to push the story along. But I sure hope we get more. She was just so well done.

This entire season - episodes 1, 3 and 5 - have seen the debuts/reveals of huge, popular characters, only for said characters to appear in their single respective episodes only, either as a tease/mod or an exposition vessel. I suppose it’s asking too much that any/all of them return, but it sure is nice to think about/hope for.

Streaming shows are built on hope.

PS - Ms. Dawson is lovely, and so pretty that it almost hurts. They could not have hired a better actor to bring that character to real life, IMO. If/when her acting career ever slows, she’s got a lifetime of convention/trade show/autograph sessions in her future, as long as she wants. She’s now SW royalty, just for her connection to that character.

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2020-11-27 at 06:06.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2020-11-27, 13:14

Okay, actual thoughts/discussion...

***SPOILERS BELOW...DO NOT PROCEED ANY FURTHER UNLESS YOU'VE SEEN THE EPISODE!!!***

It's stupid to use spoiler tags in a "spoiler-allowed" thread, but I'll still be considerate and give folks a final warning.









- To my shock, the show wasted no time getting to what everyone was waiting for. Within the first 10-15 seconds you see two white lightsabers ignite. I was stunned, as part of me had assumed she would've shown up in the final 3-4 minutes. Filoni wasn't screwing around..."you've waited long enough, guys...here you go. Enjoy!"

- She looked amazing. While not as familiar with the character as many, I have seen enough Clone Wars episodes, YouTube clips and enough Googling/Wookiepedia reading to feel like I know/recognize the character somewhat, and Rosario Dawson did a great job. The walk, even. The fighting stances, acrobatics, that little side-eye glare/smirk, etc. was all there, but in an older, mature form. It was awesome. If I enjoyed/appreciated it this much, then I know there are true, longtime fans who are losing their minds.

- To my utter relief, she was not "older Luke" 2.0. She came out swinging, literally. Just wrecking some heavily-armed bad guys. Again, to see those two white sabers ignite within seconds of the episode starting was both a surprise and a thrill.

- Let's just say my two-decade crush on Ms. Dawson has deepened considerably.

- Yoda name drop; Ahsoka, as expected, recognized The Child's species and mentions the famous Jedi Master by name.

- Speaking of The Child, he has a name...Grogu(?) (pronounced "grow goo"), and he was trained, years earlier, at the Jedi temple on Coruscant and was put into hiding after the rise of the Empire. Ahsoka sensed fear/anger in him...

- ...which lead to her making a direct reference to her former master, Anakin, telling Mando that she knows what those particular feelings can do to even a fully-trained Jedi, "the best of us". The way she said it, you kinda felt it. It still haunts her.

- Bo Katan namedrop. After their initial "I don't know who you are" skirmish, Mando tells Ahsoka that he was sent to find her by Bo Katan, which is probably the only thing that kept him from getting his ass beaten. While he held his own for 5-10 seconds (wrist flame-thrower, rope, the Beskar wrist gauntlets blocking the saber blades), it's silly to think he was going to come out on top, once she got going and was committed to her actions. Good thing he was able to convey his purpose there, or he would've likely lost his head soon after.

- Ahsoka asks the female villain, the magistrate, about her master...Grand Admiral Thrawn. So this show is going there too, it looks like. I know a bit about that, having read two of those Timothy Zahn books ages ago. And I think the character appeared on the animated Rebels show? But he's in this timeline/continuity now, so he's surely coming at some point, possibly next season?

- I think Luke was indirectly hinted at by Ahsoka ("there aren't many Jedi left", but that one may seek Grogu if he reaches out with the Force enough

- Ahsoka noted Grogu's attachment to Mando, and she declined to train him, but put him on the path to those who might. The episode ends with Mando and Grogu departing Corvus(?), and Ahsoka walking away with a slight smile on her face. Whether she returns or not, who knows. This might be her one and only appearance, as merely a plot-furthering device.

- As I mentioned in my previous thread, we've gotten amazing reveals in the odd-numbered episodes of this season...Boba Felt in episode 1/chapter 9, Bo Kana in 3/Chapter 11 and now Ahsoka in 5/Chapter 13. If that is to be taken as any sort of pattern, I guess I couldn't be too crazy to expect something big in upcoming episode 7/chapter 15 two weeks from now? Thrawn? Some sort of Luke appearance (hologram, digital de-aging - a lot of it! - of Hamill or maybe just a voice and unseen hooded figure?). Who knows, but I don't think all the surprises are done. Still three episodes left, and a lot of things left to touch on...either back to Boba, Bo Katan, Gideon and those clones/troopers and their reason for wanting The Child, or more forward-looking plot developments centering around Thrawn, Grogu's destiny and which Jedi finds him, etc.?



Circling back to an earlier, upthread discussion. As I predicted/expected, the surprise, joy and enthusiasm that greeted Bo Katan's reveal two weeks ago pales to that of Ahsoka coming to live action. Every reaction clip I've watched today have been a) mostly male, and b) off-the-charts in their joy/affection for the character. So I don't ever want to hear a damn word about "sexist, toxic fandom". This one series - between Cara Dune, Bo Katan and now Ahsoka - has clearly shown that Star Wars fans, male and otherwise, love strong, well-written and fun-to-watch female characters. They have for 40+ years, frankly. Any recent squawking and horseshit charges have centered solely around this latest batch - specifically Rey, Rose Tico and Admiral Holdo...none of which were strong, well-written or fun-to-watch. Pointing out such obvious things is not "sexist". It's shitty writing/casting, which also extended to Poe, Hux and others, IMO.


It isn't the presence of a vagina that will likely relegate Rey to "oh yeah...whatever" status within the saga, but the fact that, when it's all said and done, she didn't really do, or represent, much. And that's not due to her gender, of course. That's due to folks like J.J. Abrams, Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy, creating/championing such an underwhelming, hard-to-buy-into character. So it's foolish of them to go around blaming "toxic fandom" and sexism on why she didn't quite click with audiences across three entire major motion pictures.

So, once again, two weeks apart, this one little streaming TV series undoes/negates 2-3 years of whiny, misguided horseshit re: sexism, toxic fandom and the alleged inability/unwillingness of male Star Wars fans to accept and embrace strong female characters. That's complete, top-to-bottom nonsense and lies. And the people putting that out there, deep down, know it.

Fans will talk about/remember, years from now, how these two characters - Bo Katan and Ahsoka Tano - were presented and handled on a TV series whose budget/resources are a fraction of the big-screen, theatrical installments. That's all you have to know to realize how hollow some of those arguments/charges in recent years have been. Rey had six-plus hours on the big screen, between 2015-2019 to make a true impact/dent in the culture, and cement her status as a SW icon/legend. And failed to do so in the minds of many. Two others come along, on a TV show, and in under 30 minutes each (far less for Katan) appear to have made twice the impact on SW fandom/excitement.

So there you go. Fans are toxic, sexist and unable to accept/enjoy female characters in Star Wars? Bullshit. Just yours Kathleen, J.J. and Rian. Just yours.

I would gladly watch a series centered around Cara Dune, Bo Katan and/or Ahsoka Tano, written/performed as they have been on this particular show. And I suspect 95%+ of fans/viewers would as well. In fact, I'm kinda hoping some of these cameos/apperances are springboards to that very thing? Maybe that's what's being slowly set up, and, a year or two from now, in addition to the upcoming Kenobi series, we get these characters heading up their own adventures as well? I'm all for it.

Last edited by pscates2.0 : 2020-11-27 at 16:09.
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