[cosus]

Now I don't know if you read reuters: oddly enough, but I found this article especially hilarious.

Click

I wonder why you don't hear much about this is the US? I mean, do we make bigger equipment? Have doctor offices just been seeing this coming and preempting it all? Or worse yet, buying from a vet surplus store?

Now my next question is, is it wrong to find obesity funny?

[Wrao]

Just curious, do you actually need 5 different instant messaging services?

[cosus]

You know, every time I look at that I think do I? But I'm nothing if not accommodating.

[spikeh]

I just have a big Spike-signal on top of city-hall nowadays. Easier.

[Wrao]

Originally Posted by cosus You know, every time I look at that I think do I? But I'm nothing if not accommodating.

Pushover.

[psmith2.0]

That's a bit of a snarky headline, "Why the long face?".



I don't know. Good thing it's in Rio because if it was here, the lawsuits would already be flying, wouldn't they?



Doctor can't put them on regular equipment...might break, the patient falls and the doctor gets sued. So they take the safe route, but it embarrasses the patient or causes them "mental anguish" and, you guessed it, the doctor gets sued.

Can't win either way.

Some days it just doesn't even pay to get out of bed.



It could be worse: they could just say "screw it, he/she is beyond help" and shoot the patient (they do that to horses too, you know...

[cosus]

"Flexible."

[Banana]

I. Just. Don't. Get. It.

Since when being obese was a right?

[chucker]

"The obese patients already suffer from a lot of prejudice [..]"

Prejudice? Prejudice?!

Let's ask Dr. Drethe dictionary:

prejudice |ˈprejədəs| noun 1 preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience : English prejudice against foreigners | anti-Jewish prejudices. See note at bias . • dislike, hostility, or unjust behavior formed on such a basis : accusations of racial prejudice. 2 chiefly Law harm or injury that results or may result from some action or judgment : prejudice resulting from delay in the institution of the proceedings.

There is indeed "dislike, hostility, or unjust behavior". But it isn't formed on the basis of "preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience". It is indeed formed on common freaking sense and decades of exhaustive, unequivocal research. Disapproving of someone who is obese, and doesn't have medical reasons for that (such as a disease causing abnormal body growth/development), is not "prejudice". It's a valid and merited criticism.

[chucker]

I didn't mean to kill the convo

[Schnauzer]

Originally Posted by chucker I didn't mean to kill the convo

[thegeriatric]

In answer to your question. Yes just as it would be for mentally handicapped etc. People who are overweight ( I hate the term obese) have enough problems in life, constant dieting, guilt ridden, etc. Without further embarrassment.

Those of us who can eat what we want and don't have a weight problem, do not appreciate how fortunate we are.

[curiousuburb]

My Chronically Politically Incorrect friend would suggest that they don't need to go to the Jockey Club, they need to go to the Hippo Enclosure at the Zoo.

Insensitive bastard, but occasionally prescient by accident.

I've had friends who were 350+ lbs at age 15 due to gland problems, and certainly had a hard time in school, but they were also realists and knew that standard medical gear wasn't necessarily designed for dudes their size.

[Suddoo]

I have no sympathy for obese people / people who lack the self control to merely keep their weight at a normal level. The way I percieve it, its their fault through gluttony and greed that they're fat. Because of this I would actualy welcome a 'fat tax' here in the UK. It may seem strict, but it won't be much. Merely enough to cover the millions that the NHS spends on additional operations for obese people. This is a partiular concern to me, as a year ago I broke my leg. It took an additional 5 hours in hospital to be sorted out (while with a broken leg - very painfull). They in fact admitted this was due to the doctors having a harder time, due to, guess what? Yes, FAT people. This 'tax' would serve many purposes, here are a few:

Encourage people to get f'king thinner

Bring in money to help with our health service

Less food is eaten - economic gains for our country, other countries, and other benefits


The amount of 'fat' people I view daily is disgusting. Not only are there lives shortened dramaticly, but I feel that it's through their greed that they are in that condition.

Sorry about that little rant, and of course I do concede that the 1% of the obese people have a medical condition (*cough* big bones */cough*) and so can't help it.

[Luca]

Want to know what that prejudice thing is all about? Prejudice against obese people isn't saying "that person's fat!" when they are indeed fat. It's not saying "that person is way too fat and needs to lose weight!" either. Because people who are obese do need to lose weight.

It's saying "I have no sympathy for anyone who's fat because they all deserve it and all of them are continuing to stay fat because of the bad choices they make every day." Can you tell, just by looking, if a young black guy on the street wearing a basketball jersey and gold chains is a thug/criminal or just a guy trying to fit in? No. And can you tell, just by looking, if a fat person you see is just a greedy, disgusting pig or someone with a medical condition (or someone who may be actively trying to lose weight)? Not really, no. That's my problem in all this. You are pre-judging fat people when you assume they're all jerks too.

I do understand your viewpoint, though, suddoo. I'm overweight but I'm not that bad. And no, I don't eat at fast food restaurants. Thing is, I notice people who are much fatter than me and I also get kind of disgusted. I think we naturally have some degree of disdain towards those fatter than us. And if you're a skinny guy, that means a lot of people are fatter than you. I still think it's going a bit far to hate fat people as much as you do. I don't hate smokers, I just hate what they do. The few people I know who smoke are in fact nice people. I just wish they would quit.

Anyway, if you see a huge fat guy in a McDonald's carrying a tray with a Big Mac, then I agree with you 100%. It's not that hard to choose not to eat at McDonald's. There are a lot of restaurants where you can grab a quick bite to eat for pretty cheap without downing 800 calories and 50 grams of fat. Continuing to do so, especially when you know it's killing you, is like continuing to smoke heavily when you're aware of the health risks. I have no more sympathy for fat guys in Burger King than I do for smokers with lung cancer. I think it's unfortunate that such things happen, but they could have at least tried to stop it.

[Banana]

I wonder if the prejudice against fat people is magnified by the perceived abuse of medical conditions? I don't know specifically about fat people, but I've heard plenty of people claiming to have ADD, or some kind of disorder to justify their actions, and not surprisingly, they didn't have it officially diagnosed by qualified specialist. They just read it on the interweb and decided it must be true because they have all of the symptoms.

Another thing is that obesity is very visible; it's right out there. No way to hide it, really. So it looks really disgusting, much more when they're "sword-swallowing a churro".

That said, I do believe that if I were obese, I'd be sensible about the whole thing and not cry foul whenever they tell me that I'm too fat to fit in their medical equipment.

[World Leader Pretend]

Humans weren't meant to be fat. You can say all you want about medical conditions, etc, but the truth is that fat people have gone badly wrong.

I give them little sympathy since someone just didn't care enough about their own body to work to keep them healthy.

My XC coach always talks about how your body is your racing machine, and how fine-tuning it and keeping it rested/tested is key. It isn't something to eat away.

[intlplby]

i thought all fat people were supposed to be jolly


btw, having lived in Rio before, the article fails to mention that it makes perfect sense to use the horse equipment because the major hospital in Rio, Hospital Miguel Couto, is RIGHT NEXT to the Hippodromo (Jockey Club)

why invest in another piece of equipment for that hospital that is not necessary when they are already understaffed and lack the equipment for more serious issues

a very good friend of mine quit doing his residency at that hospital because he was "sick of playing god"... that hospital is the one that receives almost all of the major trauma cases for the entire city (12 million people) ... e.g. gunshot wounds, stabbings, car accidents, etc..... he said that he couldn't handle it because it was almost constantly in triage mode where he was given like 3 people at a time with life-threatening problems and he didn't have adequate help and supplies/resources and had to decide who lives and dies on a daily basis....

a hospital with those kinds of resources doesn't need to be wasting money on more very expensive equipment for fat people so their feelings aren't hurt

the fat people can go cry me a river....

[Sauvblanc]

You know, I'm largely with Luca on his viewpoint. I'm struggling with this thread a little bit because there seems to be a bit of a rush to judgement.

One of my best friends, a woman I've known for over 20 years, has always been overweight. And that's despite the fact that she eats healthier foods than I do and in much smaller quantities. She doesn't eat out a lot, she can't afford to. Packs a healthy lunch and has a healthy breakfast every day. She walks or rides a bike every chance she gets. Hell, she probably has a lower cholesterol level than I do. She's been on Weight Watchers more times than I can count. But she's still overweight.

She has *tried*. But wonky genes, overactive/underactive glands and God knows what else have conspired against her. But she still has to suffer through people staring at her and making snap judgements that she can't control herself when it comes to food. She deserves to be treated with a modicum of dignity.

OTOH, though, I'll go to the McD's in the hospital where I work occasionally and I'll see entire families who are seriously obese gorging their way through huge amounts of food and thinking they're probably not making good choices on a consistent basis.

So where do you draw the line?

[chucker]

Originally Posted by Sauvblanc So where do you draw the line?

Between overweight and obese. My post (and this entire thread, and the article it points at) specifically refers to obese people, not overweight people.

[intlplby]

riding a bike isn't really that great an activity for calorie burning unless you are consistently pushing yourself while riding.... walking can be fairly beneficial, but you really need to be moving at a brisk pace..... if you're not getting your heart rate consistently over 120 bpm for 15-20 minutes as a minimum then you aren't really getting the most out of your exercise time..

in the end it simply is:

calories burned > calories consumed = weight loss

if your friend is doing enough exercise to offset the calories she consumes then it is physically impossible for her to not lose weight.....

one of the biggest problems with people losing weight today is the fact that people have completely lost sight of the actual size of "one serving"

one great way to start losing weight is to replace all the places, bowls and spoons you use with small size ones....

i.e. when most people eat a bowl of cereal for example, they fill the bowl up regardless of its size. by using a smaller bowl you avoid that.

i'm disciplined enough to only fill the bowls we have to 1/5 to 1/3 full, but to most people it looks kind of strange to have the bowl that empty

recommended serving sizes are much smaller than people think....

the recommended daily allowance is 2000 calories or 2600 if you are active....

the food industry in this country produces an average of 3800 calories per person per day and waste doesn't account for much of the difference

[thegeriatric]

Originally Posted by Suddoo I have no sympathy for obese people / people who lack the self control to merely keep their weight at a normal level. The way I percieve it, its their fault through gluttony and greed that they're fat. Because of this I would actualy welcome a 'fat tax' here in the UK. It may seem strict, but it won't be much. Merely enough to cover the millions that the NHS spends on additional operations for obese people. This is a partiular concern to me, as a year ago I broke my leg. It took an additional 5 hours in hospital to be sorted out (while with a broken leg - very painfull). They in fact admitted this was due to the doctors having a harder time, due to, guess what? Yes, FAT people. This 'tax' would serve many purposes, here are a few: Encourage people to get f'king thinner Bring in money to help with our health service Less food is eaten - economic gains for our country, other countries, and other benefits The amount of 'fat' people I view daily is disgusting. Not only are there lives shortened dramaticly, but I feel that it's through their greed that they are in that condition. Sorry about that little rant, and of course I do concede that the 1% of the obese people have a medical condition (*cough* big bones */cough*) and so can't help it.

You have a very blinkered view. Yes of course someone eating junk food all the time is not doing themselves any favours, and it would be difficult to have sympathy with this mentality.

But a fat tax? Ok then what about smokers, drug users, etc where does it end.

Not everyone who is fat eats excessively. I have known loads of thin people that eat excessively, and unhealthily, yet somehow manage to stay thin, yet this does not mean they aren't at risk from blocked arteries etc. Sometimes more so than a fat person who is trying to lose weight and is eating healthily.

As for your *cough* big bones *cough* statement. Just look around at people and think about what you see. We all vary in size/shape from 5ft to 6ft+ tall, from skinny to big, can a skinny person become fat probably. Can a big person become skinny probably not.

As for having no sympathy Ok fair enough everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Does that mean you would also have no sympathy for a smoker trying to give up but failing.

I do not mean to sound judgemental Your opinion is just as valid as mine. I just feel it is a bit one sided

Where as Luca has a much more balanced approach.

[Wrao]

Originally Posted by intlplby riding a bike isn't really that great an activity for calorie burning unless you are consistently pushing yourself while riding.... walking can be fairly beneficial, but you really need to be moving at a brisk pace..... if you're not getting your heart rate consistently over 120 bpm for 15-20 minutes as a minimum then you aren't really getting the most out of your exercise time.. in the end it simply is: calories burned > calories consumed = weight loss if your friend is doing enough exercise to offset the calories she consumes then it is physically impossible for her to not lose weight..... one of the biggest problems with people losing weight today is the fact that people have completely lost sight of the actual size of "one serving" one great way to start losing weight is to replace all the places, bowls and spoons you use with small size ones.... i.e. when most people eat a bowl of cereal for example, they fill the bowl up regardless of its size. by using a smaller bowl you avoid that. i'm disciplined enough to only fill the bowls we have to 1/5 to 1/3 full, but to most people it looks kind of strange to have the bowl that empty recommended serving sizes are much smaller than people think.... the recommended daily allowance is 2000 calories or 2600 if you are active.... the food industry in this country produces an average of 3800 calories per person per day and waste doesn't account for much of the difference

Good Post.

The example above, with the 'overweight' girl who eats 'healthy' and works out but stays overweight. I would imagine that she is in decent shape, her muscles are probably pretty well developed, and for someone who is 'overweight' she is probably not particularly unhealthy or at risk of issues that can develop from being 'overweight'.

Total calories consumed and total calories expended. That's all it is. A very tiny percentage of the population has 'wonky' genes that could conceivably make things considerably more difficult, but you cannot get passed the fact that total calories consumed must be less than total calories expended in order to lose weight.

Proportions are important, but even more important for any body composition goal. Eating frequent meals throughout the day, and never skipping breakfast. Eating small frequent meals keeps your metabolism active and it helps prevent your body from storing excess calories as fat. Additionally, when you miss breakfast, your metabolism slows down considerably and you become more likely to store fat the next time you have a meal.

[spikeh]

Where did that 'fat tax' thread get to?

[Wrao]

Originally Posted by thegeriatric As for your *cough* big bones *cough* statement. Just look around at people and think about what you see. We all vary in size/shape from 5ft to 6ft+ tall, from skinny to big, can a skinny person become fat probably. Can a big person become skinny probably not.

The idea of being Big boned is largely a myth. Bones, by and large, vary in length far more than width. The variance in width/thickness is usually within a small fraction of an inch and not at all significant for overall 'build'. Even between girls and boys, it is largely irrelevant.

Bone Length is more significant when it comes to frame size. Longer bones all around contribute to a bigger frame, especially in the pelvis and the ribs. People with 'big frames' are usually thought of that way because of their ribcages and shoulders, measure their wrists with a 'small frame' person and you will find the difference in bone width to be less a quarter of an inch tops.

There is some debate about the idea of ribcage expansion as a side effect of various things. But that is also kind of dubious.

Point being. "I'm big boned" doesn't really mean anything.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by thegeriatric But a fat tax? Ok then what about smokers, drug users, etc where does it end.

Many countries do tax tobacco smoking, and drugs that are legal are typically taxed as well.

Where does it end? It ends at the point where someone is completely free of blame. Sick. Disabled. Whatever other reason. Then, of course, taxing them would only add insult to the injury, and would be quite inappropriate. But when something is obviously a person's own fault, and at the same time also happens to put a strain on all other members of society – and tobacco smoking surely is an example of that – , then taxing them isn't a very far-fetched idea.

[thegeriatric]

Originally Posted by Wrao The idea of being Big boned is largely a myth. Bones, by and large, vary in length far more than width. The variance in width/thickness is usually within a small fraction of an inch and not at all significant for overall 'build'. Even between girls and boys, it is largely irrelevant. Bone Length is more significant when it comes to frame size. Longer bones all around contribute to a bigger frame, especially in the pelvis and the ribs. People with 'big frames' are usually thought of that way because of their ribcages and shoulders, measure their wrists with a 'small frame' person and you will find the difference in bone width to be less a quarter of an inch tops. There is some debate about the idea of ribcage expansion as a side effect of various things. But that is also kind of dubious. Point being. "I'm big boned" doesn't really mean anything.

I never said anything about big boned, just different size/shape. small frame large frame call it what you will.
But a stocky person will probably never be skinny and vice versa is all I said.

Originally Posted by chucker Many countries do tax tobacco smoking, and drugs that are legal are typically taxed as well. Where does it end? It ends at the point where someone is completely free of blame. Sick. Disabled. Whatever other reason. Then, of course, taxing them would only add insult to the injury, and would be quite inappropriate. But when something is obviously a person's own fault, and at the same time also happens to put a strain on all other members of society – and tobacco smoking surely is an example of that – , then taxing them isn't a very far-fetched idea.

We pay all sorts of taxes on items we purchase. I was referring to additional taxation, my fault should have made that clear.

concede last point.

[Wrao]

Originally Posted by thegeriatric I never said anything about big boned, just different size/shape. small frame large frame call it what you will. But a stocky person will probably never be skinny and vice versa is all I said.

Which is untrue. Also, Small frame and Large frame are two other words for small and big boned. Frame size is strictly dependent on bone size, primarily length, but also width/thickness to a lesser degree.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by thegeriatric We pay all sorts of taxes on items we purchase. I was referring to additional taxation

So am I.

[intlplby]

two interesting points from this article:

http://health.msn.com/dietfitness/ar...ntid=100159738

1) Fat people on average spend 2.5 hours less time on their feet than skinny people....
2) Fat people get 2 hours less sleep per week...

the first one is of particular importance.... how often do you see someone who complains about being overweight but then chooses to take the elevator or escalator....

the other problem is that too many people try to lose weight by only reducing caloric intake but without increasing exercise... this is counterproductive because your body reduces its metabolism to compensate..... most fat people i know who try to lose weight and unsuccessful are always trying to avoid having to do the exercise part.... they think that reducing caloric intake should be enough