[Moogs]

All right so I know some of you have spent a good amount of time over the last few years looking into different kinds of diet "plans" (paleo, vegan, whatever) and I know there are some extreme types in every corner (protein only, anything but processed carbs, anything but grains, etc). What I'm hoping for is a discussion of general diet tips for the average person that are proven (maybe from a variety of diets) to work when used consistently.

Obviously the old key never goes away: don't consume more calories than you burn. But when you know winter is coming and being realistic you know you're not going to go join a gym, what are some of the principles a person can use to improve their diets a bit, maintain balance, etc?

Some of what I know:
• American portion sizes are generally way too f-ing big (any type of food) for the amount of activity they do each day.
• No fast food (we've cut that out a long time ago - maybe do Chipotle 2-3x per month, a pizza 1-2x per month)
• Stay away from processed carbs (we have very low pop/soda intake, very low fries and chips intake, although my wife drinks diet sodas which I don't like because I know they're full of chemical crapola if not calories)
• Walk the steps not elevators, walk instead of drive when you can, etc - we do an OK job of that about 50% of the time.


What I know less about:
• Proportions of carb to protein every meal, "natural carbs" to be wary of / not over-do
• "Fat burning mode" for metabolism (lot of diets use this as a hook) - i.e. eating 4 or 5 smaller meals way better than 3 squares
• Better to avoid certain foods certain times of day AFA metabolism / putting on lbs?
• Better to have larger meals certain times, smaller other times?
• Better to do 10 minutes on the bike every day vs amore demanding workout 2-3x a week?
• Whole wheat pasta cause same problems as "processed" pasta?
• Other "good food fallacies"?


What I'm hoping for is a collection of tips where everyone can modify their existing diet in some useful ways, without having to "go hard-core" on a specific "all of this, none of that" program. I'm sure we could all stand to learn more and from each other's experiences. Perfect example is that Food Lovers diet. Looks logical on the face of it the way they talk about proportioning carbs but then you read up a bit and it's all hocus-pocus. All their "kit" does is say what the ads don't: you have to do a lot of exercise to make the program work.

Also saw free resources like WebMD where you can create a basic diet plan or whatnot. Anyone used that successfully?

[Yontsey]

This is a great thread idea. I have a good idea on what's good and what's not, but following that is a whole other thing, ha.

When it comes to things like breads and pastas, always try and go for whole grains or wheat. White flour or "enriched" flour (same thing), is stripped of all it's nutrients for the most part and is not good for you.

Another thing that I personally love, are fruit smoothies, but they are terrible for you, so to speak. There is a ton of calories and sugar in them and eating fruit is much more healthier for you. Doesn't matter what type of sugar it is, i.e.: natural sugar vs processed sugar, sugar is sugar and needs to be taken in moderation. Drinks like Coke and other pop's are also terrible in this sense because of all the sugar in those drinks. You'd be surprised how much easier it would be to lose weight if you cut out pop from your diet.

[ezkcdude]

But when you know winter is coming and being realistic you know you're not going to go join a gym, what are some of the principles a person can use to improve their diets a bit, maintain balance, etc?

I actually just joined a gym for the first time in a long time specifically because the winter is coming, and I know I'm going to be more sedentary. I even signed up for some personal training sessions.

On food, everyone's different, but I have found that it really helps to eat more protein and less carbs if you want to keep weight down. Even simple dietary substitutions can make a big difference over time. For example, I switched from eating sugary cereal in the morning to Kashi Go Lean. Men's Health had an article about the healthiest breakfast cereals, and I believe that one is number two (only trailing Fiber One). I chose to go with the Go Lean because it has a lot of protein (13 g per serving) and is not loaded with sugar.

Another couple of dietary choices I've made recently is to start eating Greek Yogurt, also because it has a ton of protein. One 6-oz serving of Chobani yogurt has 14 g of protein! And it comes in all kinds of good flavors. Another Greek yogurt treat with a lot of proteina and not a lot of calories are Yasso frozen yogurt bars (70 cal per bar). They are surprisingly tasty and filling.

One last tip: Make and eat more soups! Also, if you can afford it, sushi is really healthful.

[murbot]

I think the whole wheat thing is garbage, personally. A piece of whole wheat bread will spike your blood sugar higher than table sugar will. I know this will almost certainly start a big argument, and I don't really want to get into a lengthy one, but I will just say what has helped me.

The 2 things that finally got me to lose weight and keep it off were dumping sugar and grains. For the better part of a year I did not eat sugar, bread, pasta, cereal, or rice. I also dumped other things but these 2 were the big ones. I went from a doughy 205 down to 172 in around 6 months.

I also think several meals a day if bullshit (and lots of fitness people are getting on board with this). Once I got rolling with a paleo diet I started eating twice a day most days with zero hunger problems. When you're not on the carb/blood sugar rollercoaster you just don't need food as often.

The calories in/calories out thing is another one. There was a point where I had gotten down around 171 and I went on this Whole30 thing (zero sugar/grains/alcohol/dairy, all whole foods). I went bat-shit on the meat and chicken wings. I had some days where I was eating a huge bacon and eggs breakfast, a pound or more of meat with tomatoes and avocado for lunch, 30+ chicken wings and salad + veggies for supper, and I shit you not I dropped down to 159 after the 30 days. No one would believe me when I told them what a normal day of food was. Some stretches of 4000+ cals a day for a 36 year old 170lb guy (only moderately active, too), and burning fat like mad.

Oh, and my cholesterol was very good, as a checkup for life insurance told me (not that I really care about those numbers anyway, I just know someone will mention it with all the meat and egg consumption).

Just a few things to chew on.

[ezkcdude]

Originally Posted by murbot The 2 things that finally got me to lose weight and keep it off were dumping sugar and grains. For the better part of a year I did not eat sugar, bread, pasta, cereal, or rice. I also dumped other things but these 2 were the big ones. I went from a doughy 205 down to 172 in around 6 months.

Yep, I've had the same experience.

[Moogs]

Originally Posted by murbot I also think several meals a day if bullshit (and lots of fitness people are getting on board with this). Once I got rolling with a paleo diet I started eating twice a day most days with zero hunger problems. When you're not on the carb/blood sugar rollercoaster you just don't need food as often. .

Do you think though for someone who is more sedentary than you, that there is any benefit to the "calorie shifting" stuff where you figure out how many you need a day and then instead of tiny breakfast, big lunch, big dinner... you spread them out? To me it always seems logical that a big dinner might be the worst thing you can do because who exercises at night? Any evidence for that empirically that eating bigger meal at night more harmful than say in the morning?

[ezkcdude]

Originally Posted by Moogs To me it always seems logical that a big dinner might be the worst thing you can do because who exercises at night? Any evidence for that empirically that eating bigger meal at night more harmful than say in the morning?

A lot of people exercise at night. You see them if you go to gyms at night. I do. I eat *after* I workout.

The important thing is total caloric intake. The reason people say don't eat late at night is that what people usually eat late at night is junk food, which you really shouldn't eat at any time of the day. If you eat healthy food, it doesn't matter when you do it.

[Moogs]

OK so it's not like your metabolism slows down at night, making it more likely you're putting on lbs from a meal that if you'd eaten it at 2pm, wouldn't have had the same impact? I guess you're right about exercising at night technically. I was more saying once people eat at 6pm or whatever they (or we at least) are less likely to exercise afterward.

[Eugene]

Originally Posted by Moogs • Better to have larger meals certain times, smaller other times? • Better to do 10 minutes on the bike every day vs amore demanding workout 2-3x a week?

16/8 are the intervals at which I eat two large enough meals. Works well enough for me, but I don't snack.

Lately I've been jumping rope in my garage every other day for 30m or a little longer. On the days that I jump rope I also do situps and pushups. The next day I do assisted normal pullups, neutral pullups and dips.

Old article regarding caloric intake: http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08...iet.professor/

If you feel hungry late at night, the best solution is to just go to bed, then wake up and have a normal breakfast.

[Moogs]

What do you mean by 16/8? 16 hours between dinner and breakfast and 8 between... no that can't be it. 8am and 4pm?

[709]

This is a timely thread. I was considering recently that I could stand to lose a few pounds by Xmas, so I'll be looking at everyone's tips closely.

There's a few things I'd like to work around giving up, namely microbrews, cheese, wine, ice cream, Jäger and olives. Those are like 90% of my nutrition intake. I could work on the rest though. Except for pasta. No way I could give up pasta. And garlic bread.

[billybobsky]

lol

[murbot]

I eat in an 8 hour window most days. Maybe that's what he meant? Doesn't quite look like it though. Anyway I usually eat meal #1 at noon and have meal #2 at 6pm. Sometimes I pound down a snack at around 8pm.

You guys should check out Primal Blueprint or the Paleo Diet. That shit is gold. After a lifetime of yo-yoing at New Year's every fucking year I started eating that way and haven't looked back after a couple years now.

[709]

I'm sure there's some things that I could cut down on. Bagels and cream cheese maybe. I could bake chicken breasts instead of frying - and not parmesan/bread crust them. Chips and cheese I could probably cut out - but no fucking way on the tortillas. Scrambled eggs, black olives and hot salsa rolled in a tortilla is love. I could go all corn if that would help. Maybe even skip the sharp cheddar in one of them. Instead of chocolate chip cookie dough I could go with vanilla bean ice cream.

See? TONS of concessions up there... even if I feel like a little piece of me is dying just thinking about it.

[billybobsky]

Corn should be avoided.

Just eat less of the things you like. It isn't that hard.

[709]

Originally Posted by murbot You guys should check out Primal Blueprint or the Paleo Diet. That shit is gold. After a lifetime of yo-yoing at New Year's every fucking year I started eating that way and haven't looked back after a couple years now.

If I was single I'd totally give it a try, but Anna in the kitchen is a fucking train wreck of epic proportions, and she went full veggie last year. If I only ate meat she'd no doubt starve to death.

[ezkcdude]

One really great workout that I rely on is the heavy bag. Just use the one at your gym or get one of the ones that you fill the base with water. 30 minutes of intense heavy bag workout does a body good. Also makes you feel a little badass.

[El Gallo]

I'm going to throw some stuff out here. Understand that whether everyone agrees with it or not, it is along the lines of what you asked for in this thread.

Originally Posted by Moogs All right so I know some of you have spent a good amount of time over the last few years looking into different kinds of diet "plans" (paleo, vegan, whatever) and I know there are some extreme types in every corner (protein only, anything but processed carbs, anything but grains, etc). What I'm hoping for is a discussion of general diet tips for the average person that are proven (maybe from a variety of diets) to work when used consistently. Obviously the old key never goes away: don't consume more calories than you burn. But when you know winter is coming and being realistic you know you're not going to go join a gym, what are some of the principles a person can use to improve their diets a bit, maintain balance, etc?

I'd say first and foremost, know what is going in your mouth, aim low with regard to what you think your calories are and put some sort of exercise machine in front of a television.

Some of what I know: • American portion sizes are generally way too f-ing big (any type of food) for the amount of activity they do each day.

It has nothing to do with activity level. They are just monstrously huge period. If you go to McDonald's and grab a kid happy meal, that used to be an adult meal for almost all adults. If you wanted to be Fatty McFatty, you ate the Big Mac which was the king of burgers at the time.

• No fast food (we've cut that out a long time ago - maybe do Chipotle 2-3x per month, a pizza 1-2x per month)

Unless you screwed up typing that, you still eat out almost a full week a month.

• Stay away from processed carbs (we have very low pop/soda intake, very low fries and chips intake, although my wife drinks diet sodas which I don't like because I know they're full of chemical crapola if not calories)

The carbs are indeed troublesome and most places add them readily since they are cheap. You should really try to avoid drinking any calories. It's one of those easy saving graces.

• Walk the steps not elevators, walk instead of drive when you can, etc - we do an OK job of that about 50% of the time.

A pound of muscle burns 60 calories an hour. A pound of fat burn 6 calories an hour. If you find a way with some lifting or weight training to add a couple pounds of muscle, it is like half a work out a day even if you sit on your ass.

What I know less about: • Proportions of carb to protein every meal, "natural carbs" to be wary of / not over-do • "Fat burning mode" for metabolism (lot of diets use this as a hook) - i.e. eating 4 or 5 smaller meals way better than 3 squares • Better to avoid certain foods certain times of day AFA metabolism / putting on lbs? • Better to have larger meals certain times, smaller other times? • Better to do 10 minutes on the bike every day vs amore demanding workout 2-3x a week? • Whole wheat pasta cause same problems as "processed" pasta? • Other "good food fallacies"?

Intense workouts are much better with regard to building muscle or building ability in an area. All the eating stuff will relate to how you choose to alter your eating.

The carb stuff that everyone gets into relates to how carbs basically become sugar/glucose in your blood stream when digested. They generate an insulin response and that makes you prone to put on weight.

Insulin by itself isn't terrible. However the point is most people eat way to many carbs, add to the carbs even when they think they are being good and then on top of it, do nothing to blunt the insulin response aka they don't exercise in any form daily.

What I'm hoping for is a collection of tips where everyone can modify their existing diet in some useful ways, without having to "go hard-core" on a specific "all of this, none of that" program. I'm sure we could all stand to learn more and from each other's experiences. Perfect example is that Food Lovers diet. Looks logical on the face of it the way they talk about proportioning carbs but then you read up a bit and it's all hocus-pocus. All their "kit" does is say what the ads don't: you have to do a lot of exercise to make the program work. Also saw free resources like WebMD where you can create a basic diet plan or whatnot. Anyone used that successfully?

I've had pretty successful weight loss twice in my life. I've read all the books Murbot mentions on Paleo living and in addition I've read the Four Hour Body which is a great book as well.

It is absolutely possible to lose weight while keeping carbs. I've done it so I know it can be done. The last time I used a website called Sparkpeople.com. It's free, has an iPhone and Android app. It helps you track your food, water and exercise. I lost 40lbs using it. The first time I lost 30lbs and used a book by Ellington Darden, a pretty decent fitness guru. The both use real food, have carbs, have meal plans and are easy to follow. Weight Watchers has worked very well for several people I know.

I'd say that long term, and especially over 40, the paleo thing makes a ton of sense. Your body seriously just needs much fewer calories as you age. It doesn't want to keep muscle mass as much. Much like how there were so many things you could endure when you are younger that you cannot as you get older, it makes sense to try to get rid of those damaging carbs.

Since I've read a few of these books, I'm going to try to put them through the "layperson" translator for you a bit.

First people talk about being unable to get fit as they get older because they are slower, more injury prone, etc. This is a ridiculous notion. Sure you do lose a step but that really means nothing for most of us because we aren't professional athletes of some sort. I have done several running races and they offered an age-handicap ranking in addition to official ranking. The handicap for being 40 years old as opposed to 20 years old... 4%. That means at my best the 40 year old version of me would have taken 104 minutes to run say a half marathon if the 20 year old version of me could have done it in 100 minutes.

As you can see, that really isn't any sort of big deal at all. If you are playing at some level where you are already in the 99.99999 percent of all athletes, that 4% is huge but for regular people, it's nothing.

Second when most people talk slower and less intensity training with things like paleo, they were already some ridiculously hardcore people in the first place. Mark Sisson as a marathoner could probably pump out sub-5 minute miles for pretty much as long as he wanted. For him, "going slow" or taking it easy would be 7-8 minutes which most of us can't even do for any sort of extended period. "Taking it easy" means activity of 50 minutes at least 5 days a week with regard to walking and movement for weight loss. Most people don't do that. For most people that would be a hard-core exercise regime only it isn't at all. To guys like Mark or others, that would be a light week of workouts from their previous hard-core state. If you cycle that would be 75+ miles a week. If you hike or walk that should be a solid 10 miles hiking and 15-20 miles walking a week. That is why I say you need to put something in front of a television. Most of us simply watch too much crap to find the time.

With regard to food, you really have to become a bit psycho about portions and sizes if you are keeping carbs (and actually even if you aren't sometimes) because all the food industries get off on saying bigger is better. Chicken breasts are a full third larger than they used to be. Bagels are massive compared to what they were in the past. The soda you grant yourself used to be a 12 oz can and is now a 64 oz monstrosity. It's happened over time and so most people just don't even realize how pervasive the problem has gotten.

Hope this helps. I can add more if you need more.

[FFL]

Originally Posted by murbot The 2 things that finally got me to lose weight and keep it off were dumping sugar and grains. For the better part of a year I did not eat sugar, bread, pasta, cereal, or rice. I also dumped other things but these 2 were the big ones. I went from a doughy 205 down to 172 in around 6 months.

Originally Posted by ezkcdude Yep, I've had the same experience.

Me Three. After losing about 25 lb with a fairly strict Paleo diet (combined with 20 minutes of brisk walking 3 times a week), I can now "cheat" with a sandwich or something 2 or 3 times a week, and don't have to exercise much to maintain.

I still drink more soda than I should, but I switched from Coke Classic to Coke Zero, and regular Dew to Diet. Yeah, it tasted weird at first, but I got used to it. Now a regular soda tastes weird.

And I use artificial sweetener for iced tea and the occasional coffee. If you mix two different kinds of sweetener, the artificial aftertaste is lessened.

[ezkcdude]

It's stunning to think about how much sugar is added to everything. The recommended daily amount of sugar for adult men is 32 g, which is 8 teaspoons. That's one can of Coke.

EDIT: Funny enough, I wrote my comment before I saw FFL's.

[Jason]

1. Cut out all sugar.

2. Swim for thirty minutes every day.

[billybobsky]

Originally Posted by ezkcdude It's stunning to think about how much sugar is added to everything. The recommended daily amount of sugar for adult men is 32 g, which is 8 teaspoons. That's one can of Coke. EDIT: Funny enough, I wrote my comment before I saw FFL's.

Er. That's for diabetics -- for non-diabetics its 45 g. Not a huge difference in weight, I know, but significant nonetheless. Also important to be accurate here. (can of coke, btw, has 40 g of sugar, so its a wash on your point)...

[Eugene]

Originally Posted by Moogs What do you mean by 16/8? 16 hours between dinner and breakfast and 8 between... no that can't be it. 8am and 4pm?

Yep, that's basically what I mean, but I typically eat once around 12PM and then 8PM. I am very rarely hungry upon waking up.

[murbot]

My lunch today should make the low fat crowd shit their pants.

8 slices of bacon, fried and used to scoop up guacamole (that I made in literally 2 minutes with a whole avocado, lime juice, salt, pepper, and garlic).

I washed it down with a Luquid Fat Bomb.

I added too much ice, so I had to up the coconut milk. Actually, I used coconut cream which is thicker, fattier, and awesomer. Just a quick little 1500 calorie lunch with about a week's worth of fat for some people.

[addison]

Originally Posted by murbot My lunch today should make the low fat crowd shit their pants. 8 slices of bacon, fried and used to scoop up guacamole (that I made in literally 2 minutes with a whole avocado, lime juice, salt, pepper, and garlic). I washed it down with a Luquid Fat Bomb. I added too much ice, so I had to up the coconut milk. Actually, I used coconut cream which is thicker, fattier, and awesomer. Just a quick little 1500 calorie lunch with about a week's worth of fat for some people.

After a lunch like that the only one shitting their pants might be you

Seriously though, I hope you don't have any family history of heart disease. Just because you lose weight on a certain diet doesn't make it healthy.

[murbot]

You're assuming that fat intake causes heart disease.

I guess I could say that I have perfectly normal cholesterol levels, but that would only matter to people that think high cholesterol causes heart disease.

*shrug*

[addison]

I believe the evidence is pretty strong that it does but to each their own. Maybe you just have an incredibly powerful liver.

[ezkcdude]

Originally Posted by billybobsky Er. That's for diabetics -- for non-diabetics its 45 g. Not a huge difference in weight, I know, but significant nonetheless. Also important to be accurate here. (can of coke, btw, has 40 g of sugar, so its a wash on your point)...

Er. It depends where you look. The number I cited was the AHA's RDA in 2009. Where are you getting 45 g?

As far as "accurate", well obviously this is not a black and white value, anyway. There's probably no single "right answer". It depends on how you study it, the readouts, etc.

[AWR]

He does!

Healthy diet tip? I wish I had some serious insight. I stay at 6', 175lbs by eating everything I want and getting enough exercise, mostly running (with one longer run each week of between 15-20k), and on the bike for cross training. The catch is that I don't like or am not compelled to eat or drink sodas or fruit juice (wine is an exception), sugary stuff, cakes, cookies, dessert (with a pleasant exception once a month), potato chips, processed foods, crap stuff.

Everything else, including carbs, I cook and eat with passion. My idea of a good weekday snack at 10 am or 4 pm is a bowl of spaghetti with tomato sauce and a chopped chicken breast. Or five slices of leftover pizza and two blueberry yogurts. Dried apricots and salty peanuts and a banana.

Keep up the tips though, I'm happy to learn some new tricks.