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New Mac Pro and iMac, circa 2021


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New Mac Pro and iMac, circa 2021
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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
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2021-10-30, 15:23

Aww, that’s kinda sad. That was always my favorite aluminum iMac design/size all these years. Never once considered/lusted after the 27”.*

Maybe they’re thinking, smack-dab in the middle of a school year, there won’t be many education buys for a bit? And, come spring, the current iMac (M1, 8/256, two ports, 8/7 core, maybe in silver only) drops down to $1,099 and the M2 24” iMac takes over the $1,299+ slot.



*And speaking of the 27”…

And then there’s this story out today as well.

If these rumors pan out, we’ve all been massively overshooting on the size (30-32”) on an upcoming larger iMac. However it appears it may be positioned as an iMac Pro, and get the Pro/Max AS offerings, even if it remains at 27”.
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chucker
 
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2021-10-30, 15:33

Quote:
Originally Posted by psmith2.0 View Post
Aww, that’s kinda sad. That was always my favorite aluminum iMac design/size all these years. Never once considered/lusted after the 27”.

Maybe they’re thinking, smack-dab in the middle of a school year, there won’t be many education buys for a bit?
Yeah, that makes sense. (I couldn't quickly find if Intel is discontinuing the CPU. But even if they are, Apple could probably easily have added a newer one, so I doubt that was the only factor.)

Personally, while the aluminum+glass variant no doubt looked nicer than its white plastic predecessor, it… never was one of my favorite designs, especially once they added the weird curves to make it appear thinner on the sides. That 2021 M1 design, OTOH…

Quote:
Originally Posted by psmith2.0 View Post
And, come spring, the current iMac (M1, 8/256, two ports, 8/7 core, maybe in silver only) drops down to that $1,099 spot and the M2 24” iMac is in that $1,299+ spot.
Let's hope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psmith2.0 View Post
And speaking of 27”…

And then there’s this story out today as well.

If these rumors pan out, we’ve all been massively overshooting the size (30-32”) on an upcoming larger iMac. However it appears it may be positioned as an iMac Pro, and get the Pro/Max AS offerings, while still at 27”.
I dunno. 27 just seems too close to 24. (Then again, I guess 14 and 16 are very close to 13?)
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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
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2021-10-30, 16:04

Yeah. There’s precedent. The largest pro notebook didn’t go up in size. 16” stayed at 16”, so 27” staying at 27” isn’t too far out of a notion if a 30” just isn’t feasible right now.

If it came in Space Grey (and silver?)-only, plus all the things that are part of the M1 Pro/Max guts, plus the MacBook Pro port offerings, that sets it off well enough from the 24” in price, appearance, performance that it’ll be very clear the difference between the two lines.

And if they do the same sort of thing with the updated/redesigned non-pro notebook, things may suddenly get real easy and sensible on the Mac-buying from. Would be nice!

2022: Pro-oriented Macs named as such, styled/colored in serious, sedate tones, sporting M1 Pro/Max guts and more ports. The M2 powers everything else under $2,000 without “pro” in its name.

The wildcards being the rumored beefier Mac mini (sub-$2,000, but still gets the M1 Pro/Max offerings) and then the Mac Pro…maybe it gets the M2 Pro/Max, leapfrogging all other Macs (as it should)…unveiled at WWDC and allowing Apple to keep their 2020 promise?

Damn, it’s gonna be a neat year on the Mac front, 2022…possible four brand new models (M2 Air update/successor/replacement, beefier Mac mini, larger iMac and a new Mac Pro). And then M2 updates to the current M1-based models (regular Mac mini and 24” iMac).

By summer, everting on an M1 and M2, with or without the Pro/Max versions. Less than two year transition, and only going up from there. Again, Apple wouldn’t be doing this if they didn’t have a long, solid plan/roadmap in place, making all this design and engineering effort worthwhile. They’re just getting started, and scratching the surface.
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chucker
 
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2021-10-30, 17:00

Quote:
Originally Posted by psmith2.0 View Post
Yeah. There’s precedent. The largest pro notebook didn’t go up in size. 16” stayed at 16”,
Sooooooort of. It went up to 16-inch literally the last revision. It was 15-inch since the G4 Titanium in 2001, and went up to 16 in late 2019, with no further revision in between.


Quote:
Originally Posted by psmith2.0 View Post
If it came in Space Grey (and silver?)-only, plus all the things that are part of the M1 Pro/Max guts,
Sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psmith2.0 View Post
plus the MacBook Pro port offerings,
So, that's a tricky one. Most ports simply won't fit in a chassis like the 24-inch iMac. Adding ports to the side is an option, which is why they did that for the headphone jack, but you don't really want something hanging off of there for prolonged periods of time.

Will they add more ports to the power adapter, like they have done with Ethernet? Will they make this one significantly thicker so more ports can fit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by psmith2.0 View Post
And if they do the same sort of thing with the updated/redesigned non-pro notebook, things may suddenly get real easy and sensible on the Mac-buying from. Would be nice!

2022: Pro-oriented Macs named as such, styled/colored in serious, sedate tones, sporting M1 Pro/Max guts and more ports. The M2 powers everything else under $2,000 without “pro” in its name.
Indeed!

Bit by bit, they're fixing the confusing 2016 era.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
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2021-10-30, 17:44

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
So, that's a tricky one. Most ports simply won't fit in a chassis like the 24-inch iMac. Adding ports to the side is an option, which is why they did that for the headphone jack, but you don't really want something hanging off of there for prolonged periods of time.
Yeah, I thought about that as I was writing it.

Several options, none are super ideal: leave off completely, make the body thicker, put them on the power brick or, as weird as it might look, "hide" a thicker part behind the body/stand to house these ports. No, I don't know how they'd do it either, I'm just trying to think.

Honestly, I think they'd just make the thing a little thicker. Pro stuff is allowed to be, after all.

Not sure how much thicker they'd need to make it, but even if it required doubling the thickness of the M1 24" iMac, that's still a) super thin and b) that's just extra room inside for cooling, higher-performing AS and whatever else. The 24" iMac is 11.5mm thick, so even if they doubled it to 23mm, that's still less than one inch (.90"). I don't think Apple, or a customer on the planet, would mind a 27" pro-labeled Mac being less than 1" thick, with all the other plusses going for it (27" display, the Pro/Max performance, etc.).

Desktops - especially ones with "pro" in their name - don't need to be design/thinness showcases. The events of two Mondays ago showed us that Apple seems willing to put function (performance) over form (performance-hindering thinness). And they have even more room to do so on a larger 27" desktop than their two new notebooks.

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2021-10-30 at 17:54.
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Frank777
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2021-10-30, 19:02

If they're sticking with 27", there had better be solid support for 2 more monitors.

I've always stuck with using the iMac's monitor solo. But it's time for more desktop real estate, so I'll move to multiples if necessary.
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chucker
 
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2021-10-31, 07:27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
If they're sticking with 27", there had better be solid support for 2 more monitors.
Probably. The M1 Pro and Max support more than the M1 does.
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Frank777
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2021-11-01, 18:44

Anybody know whether the SD card sticks out of the new machines or inserts inside fully?
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chucker
 
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2021-11-02, 01:41

Regular cards stick out, but I’m told it’s the same as on the old machines, so you can make a short card that’s flush.
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drewprops
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2021-11-02, 07:03

We can make our own SD cards?


...
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chucker
 
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2021-11-02, 07:56

I'm guessing something like https://www.theminidrive.com will work.
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Fahrenheit
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2021-11-03, 05:44

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
I'm guessing something like https://www.theminidrive.com will work.
After looking at that, I too am in a solid state.
  quote
turtle
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2021-11-03, 07:58

I think that is the drive I had in mind (though posted in the MBP thread). I don't know if it was that brand, but it looked similar enough.

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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
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2021-11-03, 08:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fahrenheit View Post
After looking at that, I too am in a solid state.


That and chucker’s “licensing” joke a week or two ago both made me genuinely laugh. I loves a sly, well-crafted zinger.
  quote
Frank777
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2021-12-29, 18:06

Hmmm. Maybe pushing the larger iMac to March 2022 wasn't such a bad idea.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
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2021-12-29, 18:22

Especially if, as all the rumors say, it'll be named/positioned as a "pro" type of machine. Stuff with "Pro" in its name needs to earn those price tags...got no problem with that (like those new 14" and 16" MacBooks). If they're geared toward the folks making a living with their skills/talent, they should have the fastest, best stuff available for those truly needing it (and willing to fork over for it).

Everyone else - me included - can get a $1,299-1,699 24" model, and like it.
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kscherer
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2021-12-29, 18:30

12/14GB/s is quick!

The new MacBooks Pro are 7GB/s, which is already fast as hell. But doubling that?

Apple seems to be shooting for the moon with their M-series stuff, so I won't be surprised if PCIe 5 lands in the next two things (big iMac and Mac Pro).

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Frank777
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2021-12-29, 18:39

I guess it depends on whether Apple has had access to this stuff beforehand.

Since the rumours are that the new iMacs are already in production, this might be a six-month-down-the-road revision.

But it's such a big step up, that early adopters will be greatly ticked off.
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kscherer
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2021-12-29, 18:40

I suspect Apple has so much inside information on what's coming down the pipes that they've known about this for at least 2 years (and that's my best conservative estimate). This stuff doesn't "just show up". It takes years to develop, and the cooperation of computer manufacturers is an absolute must.

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
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PB PM
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2021-12-29, 19:04

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
I guess it depends on whether Apple has had access to this stuff beforehand.

Since the rumours are that the new iMacs are already in production, this might be a six-month-down-the-road revision.

But it's such a big step up, that early adopters will be greatly ticked off.
PCI-5 is not a new thing, these drives are. The real question isn't, does Apple have access to PCIe 5.0 SSDs, the question is, does the architecture for the M1/M1 Pro /M1 Max support PCIe-5.0? If not, it's irreverent. My guess is no, we won't be seeing PCI-5 on the Mac's until second or maybe generation silicon ships.
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Frank777
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2021-12-29, 19:07

I believe everything so far has been PCIe 4.0, but I think chucker would know better than I would.
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chucker
 
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2021-12-30, 04:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
PCI-5 is not a new thing, these drives are.
PCIe 5 is still quite new. Intel's Alder Lake (which is so far only available for high-end desktops) is the first gen to have it. AMD won't have it until next year.

And, as far as SSD production in general goes, it's absolutely the limiting factor. NVMe does up to four lanes. A PCIe 3 lane is 985 MiB/s (gross). Therefore, a PCIe 3 SSD tops out at about 3.5 GiB/s. PCIe 4 doubles all that, and a PCIe 5 doubles it again. That's why we're now seeing 7 GiB/s SSDs, and soon 14 GiB/s ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
The real question isn't, does Apple have access to PCIe 5.0 SSDs, the question is, does the architecture for the M1/M1 Pro /M1 Max support PCIe-5.0?
So, my guess is no. M1 is PCIe 4, and I suspect they haven't upgraded that to 5 for the Pro/Max.

However, Apple doesn't appear to connect their SSDs through PCI at all. They use an NVMe-compatible protocol, but over an entirely different bus. Perhaps to further reduce latency.

So, that could mean that they might be able to take advantage of faster SSDs even though their PCIe bus is 4.0.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
If not, it's irreverent. My guess is no, we won't be seeing PCI-5 on the Mac's until second or maybe generation silicon ships.
That would be my guess as well.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
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2021-12-30, 04:33

Damn, chucker laying down the info/details like it’s no big thing, second nature. I’m impressed. I know none of that kind of stuff, so I always enjoy/appreciate when I read/hear knowledgeable folks speak on such things.

I get a tad smarter/better-informed myself, whether I mean to or not!

Rep-pointed for your time/trouble.
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chucker
 
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2021-12-30, 05:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
this might be a six-month-down-the-road revision.
Hmm.

If so, my guess is Apple will add these as a BTO option later on, for another $200. "8TB high-speed storage", $2,600.

They have no reason to silently bump all existing disks. Nobody would notice even if they were to put out a press release. But if they make these BTO options? Everyone would report on them. Those who complain would complain. And those who need those speeds would get them, because at that point, what's another $200.

These disks could be quite interesting for video editing, which is a market Apple does care about, so…
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chucker
 
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2021-12-30, 05:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by psmith2.0 View Post
Rep-pointed for your time/trouble.
That's very kind, but I actually worry my pre-coffee self sounds a bit condescending, which wasn't intended, PB PM.
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PB PM
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2021-12-30, 08:09

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
PCIe 5 is still quite new. Intel's Alder Lake (which is so far only available for high-end desktops) is the first gen to have it. AMD won't have it until next year.
Not exactly what I meant, yes it’s a newly shipping as a product, but the standard was out and available for developers for a few years now. IIRC PCIe 4.0 was not even finalized, or in shipping products before the early phases of development for PCIe 5 started. It has been a quick leap compared to 2.0 -> 3.0 -> 4.0.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
That's very kind, but I actually worry my pre-coffee self sounds a bit condescending, which wasn't intended, PB PM.
Not taken as such.
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chucker
 
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2021-12-30, 08:25

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Not exactly what I meant, yes it’s a newly shipping as a product, but the standard was out and available for developers for a few years now. IIRC PCIe 4.0 was not even finalized, or in shipping products before the early phases of development for PCIe 5 started. It has been a quick leap compared to 2.0 -> 3.0 -> 4.0.
Yeah, I think I misread.

It does indeed feel like there was a long period where, in practice, PCIe 3 was current (especially on Intel), even though PCIe 4 was already virtually finished. Then 5 followed relatively soon after.
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Frank777
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2022-01-01, 19:58

Happy New Year everyone.

Hopefully, the larger iMac will be here soon. I still don't understand the idea that the screen size will remain the same, as it goes against everything we know about longer-term iMac upgrades and what happened last year with the new 24" as well.

If you just reduce the 27" bezels to the standard of the new 24", you're at 28" or so. Maybe it can almost get to 29" if they try a bit harder.

I think Apple is telling suppliers that the larger iMac will "remain at the same size" to cover the fact that there will be a screen-size increase within the same machine footprint.

But I'm terrible with the math on screen resolutions and sizes, so I don't know how that theory shakes out in real life.
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chucker
 
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2022-01-02, 05:08

There’s a lot of smoke around the 27-inch thing, but also 32. So I’m sticking to my theory that they’re going for 24-inch iMac and 27- and 32-inch iMacs Pro. Just like we have two Pro sizes on the iPad and the MacBook (ignoring the 13).
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Frank777
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2022-05-09, 13:51

So we're inside the 30-day window for WWDC, and nothing about the Mac Pro has leaked.

I'm guessing all these leaks now come from those preparing web marketing materials and accessory makers?

Good job plugging the leaks, Apple.
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