[Moogs]

Seems even though Apple won't be at NAB, there is some (admittedly predictable) rumors that FCS3, the next-gen version of Shake (supposedly called Phenomenon), and other goodies will debut in April around the time of the NAB conference. My money's on the Tuesday before because I am clairvoyant like dat!

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._nab_show.html

Would like to see some serious UI overhaul for FCP, as well as some multi-core optimization (on the level of After Effects) and a 64 bit love across the board, as I think all of those apps including Color would benefit pretty heavily from the same. FCP and any compositing apps for sure would benefit. Would be SWELL to see a new version of DVDSP included that streamlines the workflow, integrates Blu-ray fully, etc. It's only been what, 4 years?

[hmurchison]

I'm expecting a huge update to Final Cut Pro.

I expect there to be large UI changes (that some will complain about) and a move
towards working in ProRes 422 versus trying to accommodate every single format out there.
Text handling should improve as well. Seeing as how iMovie 09 beefed up in this area I know
that FCS should be fantastic.

I actually read a guy that wanted native AVCHD editing and therein is the problem. Why should
Apple spend a bunch of time trying to perfect a delivery codec that was never aimed at accurate editing and
is the codec of consumer camcorders ? They need to stick with native editing of HDV and other codecs that
are in Prosumer and Pro cams.

It'd be great if Compressor 4 could leverage all of those cores in the Mac Pro to transcode multiple video
formats to ProRes 422 at faster than realtime. The timesink of transcoding isn't bad when you look at improving
the editing workflow. I'm going to do what gives me the most accurate editing and realtime features while still
keeping quality

I'd like to see a unified graphics engine behind all of the apps a la what Adobe's done. I should be able to fire up
motion and it should be able to work on the pieces that I just edited in FCP like it had created piece in the first place.

Logic Studio and Aperture should share this pipeline so that bringing in photos and opening up FCP projects in Logic Studio
are seamless. Basically the whole import/export procedure should be transparent.

Wrap this all up with effective media management and make XSAN 2.5 support iSCSI setups rather than expensive Fibre Channel based
solutions and you've got a modern platform to build upon.

Oh yeah ship the mythical Shake replacement as well.

[Moogs]

Yah I'd be all over a mythical Shake replacement, as long as it didn't have Autodesk-like price tags (Flame, Smoke, etc).

As for AVCHD, I see this as a format with huge potential. Just because many consumer and prosumer corders use it, I wouldn't dismiss it. Premiere Pro is supporting AVCHD and the workflow is pretty damn simple / efficient on even a mediocre Mac Pro system. No reason Apple can't support this format.

Should they bad support for some old, crappy legacy formats... OK. And Premiere too but I think it would be crazy not to have great support across the board for not only HDV and DV, but ProRes, Red, and AVCHD. They should make sure the key formats are covered.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by Moogs Yah I'd be all over a mythical Shake replacement, as long as it didn't have Autodesk-like price tags (Flame, Smoke, etc). As for AVCHD, I see this as a format with huge potential. Just because many consumer and prosumer corders use it, I wouldn't dismiss it. Premiere Pro is supporting AVCHD and the workflow is pretty damn simple / efficient on even a mediocre Mac Pro system. No reason Apple can't support this format. Should they bad support for some old, crappy legacy formats... OK. And Premiere too but I think it would be crazy not to have great support across the board for not only HDV and DV, but ProRes, Red, and AVCHD. They should make sure the key formats are covered.

I think Apple is certainly going to support AVCHD just fine but I doubt they put a lot of work into editing fluidity. I'm certainly not going to edit in it if it costs me realtime performance. I'd certainly love the 35Mbps MPEG3 based codec that JVC is using in their new ProHD HM100, drag and drop right to the timeline and less compression than AVCHD. Let's face it AVCHD was designed for tapeless capture and space saving but it's benefits in size are offset by the increased difficulty in editing. Do we really need a highly compressed formate for editing seeing as how flash memory is going to be delivering a freaking TB of storage in the same package that 32MB fits in today? I hope that we end up moving to something like RED's RAW codec. I want more color information preserved so that I can tweak more.

Plus roundtripping should be flawless and all of Apple's Pro apps should be in the party. Seeing as how there's due a Logic Studio and Aperture update my dream is for this unfied connection between all Apple Pro apps. I also want more control via external hardware controllers. Final Cut Pro works with the Euphonix MC Control system via Mackie HUI and there's probably some limitations there. I'm going to be looking for some sort of more robust link with Final Cut Studio and hardware controllers from Euphonix and maybe Tangent (color grading) and even stuff like midi keyboards which could handle music and video plugins with their rotary knobs and sliders. Toss in Apogee interfaces and AJA interfaces and voila you have a nice tight setup.

[Moogs]

To me I wish tapes and film would just die except for special cinematic applications. AVCHD has its quirks but the beauty of not having tapes, having to buy transport devices and cabling and all that crap, makes it all worthwhile. The whole idea now of buying tapes, cleaning tape heads and all the stuff is just so anachronistic at this point. I think the solution is to have 3 or 4 standard formats going forward.

AVCHD for consumer devices
An Intermediate format (less compressed than AVCHD)
RED for pro devices and cinema

I would love to have a pure RED workflow but I'm not a pro video guy and cannot justify spending $25K on a video camera system. When RED gets down under $10K, without sacrificing quality, I'm all over it. Until then formats like AVCHD are pretty useful. Like I said editing it in Premiere Pro (a program that clearly is not as powerful as FCP) is pretty simple. You download the clips to your drive (just like raw files), you open Premiere and play them back in real time via the Media Browser, choose the clips with in and out points you want, and bingo, they're in your project. Editing them is really no different than other clip types. The rendering is a little slower but rendering is always slow and you don't do anything during a render anyway so I don't see the huge deal. You switch to Motion or AE and work on that project while Pr renders.

It's not perfect but it's far from unworkable.

[hmurchison]

Here's an interesting and thoughtufl prediction about what Final Cut Studio 3 could be.

http://blog.latenitefilms.com/2009/0...3-predictions/

[Moogs]

Thanks Murch, I'll check it out. BTW I agree (if you were suggesting same) that having RED develop a non-proprietary format that others like Canon could integrate into their prosumer type equipment (G2, etc), that would be fantastic.

[Moogs]

That is possibly the most specific-sounding prediction I've ever heard for a software application. It reads very much like someone broke their NDA and spilled their guts to this guy and he listed it all as "guesses and predictions". Any type of prediction track record you're aware of? If that stuff is true, it's very exciting and would be worth waiting for. I doubt very much if any FCS update will arrive before the arrival of Leopard, especially if it's going ot be 64-bit and based on QuickTime X. Could be a fun summer.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by Moogs That is possibly the most specific-sounding prediction I've ever heard for a software application. It reads very much like someone broke their NDA and spilled their guts to this guy and he listed it all as "guesses and predictions". Any type of prediction track record you're aware of? If that stuff is true, it's very exciting and would be worth waiting for. I doubt very much if any FCS update will arrive before the arrival of Leopard, especially if it's going ot be 64-bit and based on QuickTime X. Could be a fun summer.

Yeah it was pretty damn good. He's on the right track and clearly has used Avid and other NLE. I think the "Rooms" structure to a NLE is better then a suite of apps IMO. He does say he has no connections I believe we'll see if he's in tune with Apple's FCS team.

My thoughts on the Snow Leopard thing is this.

Apple pretty much has to deliver FCS before Snow Leopard. I've never seen Apple attempt to deliver a major revision of a Pro app on a new OS with no significant marketshare (and maintainence updates) My guess is they deliver a new FCS by Aprill which will run on Leopard and they'll deliver Snow Leopard compatability before years end. The 2010 revision will come later than usual and will heavily take advantage of features like OpenCL and Grand Central.

[Moogs]

A valid point. But if it's released first, you don't think this could be another "send in your discs and $50 and we'll send you the Snow Leopard version of FCS3"?

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by Moogs A valid point. But if it's released first, you don't think this could be another "send in your discs and $50 and we'll send you the Snow Leopard version of FCS3"?

Pro app software update. I'd be leery to upgrade to Snow Leopard on a production system until there had been a few
maintainance releases. I think 10.5.7 is mature and a good bedrock for new Pro Apps.

I'm looking for ProRes 422 to get more love from Apple as well. I don't think the benefits of ProRes
have been well articulated to those capturing in HDV and AVCHD.

[Moogs]

Find me a reasonably affordable device that captures ProRes as digital files and I'm all about it. Tapes must die.

This bad boy looks pretty impressive...
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...mcorder.htm l

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by Moogs Find me a reasonably affordable device that captures ProRes as digital files and I'm all about it. Tapes must die. This bad boy looks pretty impressive... http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...mcorder.htm l

for HDV it seems like a faster solution is wrapping the codec. This is supposed to be a good one

http://www.clipwrap.com/

I wonder if they're going to try and get a AVCHD solution going.

[Moogs]

Interesting. I was checking the reviews on that Panasonic beast and it gets some pretty high marks and apparently is FCP 6 compatible too. Sounds like the workflow is very straight-forward / not a time drain at all compared to tape. I suspect part of teh AVCHD issues are the fact that developers haven't had much time to optimize their software for playback and rendering yet. A little goes a long way, add a helping of that Grand Central optimization and it might not even matter for apps like FCX, when you run things on Nehalem or Westmere whether an app is optimized for AVCHD (or merely "supports it). I put the Panasonic on my B&H wish list so I don't forget about it later.

[Moogs]

Here's another JVC camera that records directly to FCP formats. Slick...

http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/f...l_id=MDL101845

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by Moogs Here's another JVC camera that records directly to FCP formats. Slick... http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/f...l_id=MDL101845

This cam is the biggest threat to that Panny HM150
The codec is based on XDCAM and supports 35MBps and
records to dual SDHC cards.

The only thing to worry about is the rather small sensor size. Will
JVC be able to handle low light without grain? The audio jack pack
is nice and the size is fantastic for toting around. I'm in no position to
be buying a $4000 cam but the second generation of this camera could be
pretty nice. I'd love to be in a position for that camera so long as it had
larger sensors and replace the SDHC cards with higher performing and larger
size potential SDXC cards. Then you have a winner

Until then I may go the digicam route with the Panny Lumix GH1 if they can deliver a
the digicam without too many quirks.

[Moogs]

Will be anxious to see the reviews when this puppy comes out. It captures all the standard HD resolutions and frame rates, and has some great features (good mic, XLR, ND filter, etc) for a prosumer camera. If it turns out it does well in low light, I might not wait for v2 if the funds are available. This is the kind of camera that could last you a long, long time.

[Moogs]

According to Macrumors Apple may be overhauling the UI for the entire system (something called "Marble" supposedly), which will be previewed (only?) at WWDC... from there the theory is release of 10.6 later in the summer (August maybe by the sounds of it). Kind of makes me want to go all ADC Select again. At least I'd get a hardware discount and it could benefit other non-mentionable work I do.

The more I think about it the more I think Final Cut Studio 3, Final Cut Express, Logic, Logic Express and maybe even Aperture 3 will require Snow Leopard for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is the major overhaul to QuickTime, the new UI (which might make it's way across pro apps too), and other techno-ma-lologies like Grand Central. It just doesn't make any sense that they'd release any of this stuff so close to a major architectural overhaul of the system, much of which can improve the performance and capabilities of these apps...

...my prediction is a big zilch for NAB, unless it's just a preview or announcement sans product. I think it could be a very exciting summer and fall season indeed though.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by Moogs According to Macrumors Apple may be overhauling the UI for the entire system (something called "Marble" supposedly), which will be previewed (only?) at WWDC... from there the theory is release of 10.6 later in the summer (August maybe by the sounds of it). Kind of makes me want to go all ADC Select again. At least I'd get a hardware discount and it could benefit other non-mentionable work I do. The more I think about it the more I think Final Cut Studio 3, Final Cut Express, Logic, Logic Express and maybe even Aperture 3 will require Snow Leopard for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is the major overhaul to QuickTime, the new UI (which might make it's way across pro apps too), and other techno-ma-lologies like Grand Central. It just doesn't make any sense that they'd release any of this stuff so close to a major architectural overhaul of the system, much of which can improve the performance and capabilities of these apps... ...my prediction is a big zilch for NAB, unless it's just a preview or announcement sans product. I think it could be a very exciting summer and fall season indeed though.

I wish but common sense just tells me that we are going to see FCS, Logic Studio and Aperture updated before August. I do think that Apple's going with a more darker gray UI and that flatter scroll bar look in whatever you want to call that color.

The Pro apps won't be as glossy as iMovie but they'll be close yet they will have a UI that makes you focus on the punchy colors coming from the center of the screen.

[Moogs]

Common sense... how do you mean? Just because of the time duration? What's the difference between releasing two years later and say 27 months later? I don't really see any reason why Apple wouldn't give themselves the extra time to integrate the new pro apps properly with Snow Leopard. Especially considering there won't be many vendors out there with true 64-bit apps, primed for QT X, etc. It's a big sales point to have pro apps which take advantage of these new techs from the moment they're released.

Seems the worst thing to do from a business standpoint would be to leave the 64-bit uber-releases till a year from now or more. Adobe certainly won't be filling that gap this year if their normal dev cycle holds (in fact it should be longer than normal if they do Cocoa64 ports of multiple apps - that is a big undertaking).

[hmurchison]

I mean combining to large chunks of untested code. It would seem like Apple would have to reduce
all variables and that means shipping new untested code (FCS) on top of heavily tested code (10.5.7)

I think even if Apple had FCS and Aperture and Logic running on Snow Leopard from day one they might
still have issues with plugins and other supporting apps that haven't made the transition.

Apple would be better off letting SL get field tested and bring in their Pro app SL code against the bugfixes
that will be inevitable.

I think Apple could speed up the process but they would likely have to get rid of PPC support so that their
testing could be completed faster.

I really want to see the Pro apps updated and I don't want to wait until SL ships. I know it'll add some good
features but even a Leopard optimized FCS, Logic and Aperture is going to do wonders.

[Moogs]

I doubt any of the pro apps in their next incarnations will support PPC. Intel transition was what... almost 4 years ago? More than enough time on Apple's part to give customers time to get the most from their PPC investments. That ship has sailed. Would not be surprised at all if Apple says at WWDC "4 Years ago we moved to Intel and it's been a smooth transition... going forward PPC [is no longer supported.]"

[Moogs]

[One probably bogus but not-all-together-implausible rumor from a crappy rumor site is that FCS3 will be priced under $1000 as part of the big release that has been rumored in numerous places... if true, this would kick celluloid butt.]

And RED has announced some killer new cameras whose prices are likely to be well under the typical Red ONE system, also. What's also cool are these developments where you can put DSLR lenses on a RED rig or put video lenses on a DSLR (if you prefer that route)...

...video is undergoing a big revolution here in terms of pure digital workflow and quality that surpasses film, without requiring huge bank loans to get the gear... and hopefully a new FCS suite that any kid straight out of college could buy. This can only be good for film making. Take the monopoly out of the hands of these studio moguls in Hollywood. New actors, new directors, new everything and screw the theatre too if it comes to that. If everyone has 40-60" HD televisions and a DVD or Blu-Ray player, maybe theatrical releases will greatly subside for a while until the studio owners and theatre moguls decide they're no longer going to charge two adults $35 to go see a 90 minute, barely-better-than-television movie and have a pop and bag of popcorn. F-ing greedy dickheads.

This what I love about companies like Apple. They turn the industry on its ear and make creative tools available to much larger numbers of people, change pricing and distribution models (iTunes), etc. If they can figure out a way to get true HD content into my TV without my having to use a computer... combined with the production technologies (and pricing) we're talking about here... Hollywood is going to shit its pants.

[chucker]

You did not just link to MOSR.

[Moogs]

Holy fuck I did.


Deleting link now. I have literally not looked at that site in like 5 or 6 years (or more!) and had totally forgotten about it. I just googled NAB rumors and clicked a link. Wasn't even paying attention. But either way, given what Apple did with Shake, I wouldn't be surprised if they dropped the price of the new studio a few hundred bucks (down under $1000).

Sorry. Man, that is funny.... MOSR. I can't even remember the last time I saw the acronym MOSR.

[iFerret]

The only thing with that latenite films piece is that Apple has traditionally subscribed to the idea that each app has a unique job and forms part of a larger puzzle. This is as opposed to a mega-app that do a range of things - trying to be all things to all people.

I guess that has changed in some ways, for example iTunes: it's a media library organiser/manager, it plays media, it goes online to a store, it manages a myriad of devices, etc. But still, I think it's worth considering.

Then again, the 'rooms' concept sounds interesting and not quite like what we're used to. So in that way, it would be like having separate apps, except they just fall under one umbrella app.

[Moogs]

Nice announcement from Nvidia. I mentioned this in another thread earlier this month, noting I had heard this was coming, so glad to see it wasn't a bunch of spin "RSN" type stuff.

http://www.macworld.com/article/1401...04/nvidia.html

True pro GPU finally... with CUDA goodness and more. Now if Adobe can take their GPU support a step further in CS5... this type of card can be a seriously useful investment for those workflows. Right now it's just a Premiere thing mostly. GPU acceleration FTW.

[Frank777]

Isn't NAB this week? Shouldn't we be hearing about Apple's latest 'phenomenon' by now?

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by Frank777 Isn't NAB this week? Shouldn't we be hearing about Apple's latest 'phenomenon' by now?

http://www.aja.com/news/index_article.php?id=76

This looks good

Originally Posted by AJA Ki Pro records files to the Apple ProRes codec directly from camera, allowing filmmakers, broadcasters, video professionals and prosumers to skip the process of re-rendering to an editing codec by giving immediate access to 10-bit full raster edit-ready ProRes files. Ki Pro was introduced today, and will be on display at the AJA Booth (SL2513) during the National Association of Broadcasters (NAB) Convention at the Las Vegas Convention Center from April 20-23, 2009... About Ki Pro Ki Pro provides a new way of connecting production and post with its extensive analog and digital connectivity; virtually any video and audio source can be fed into Ki Pro to record pristine 10-bit ProRes media that is then immediately available to edit within Apple’s Final Cut Studio. Ki Pro will allow users to record hours of pristine ProRes media to a removable storage module with built-in FireWire 800, or to 34mm ExpressCard Flash, for immediate editing and file access. The unit can connect to any digital camera via SDI or HDMI, or any analog camera with multiple input options. Ki Pro is priced at $3995 US MSRP and will be shipping in June of 2009.

The tapeless revolution marches on.

[Moogs]

So wait... you put the tape into this gizmo (looks big), it transcodes the video to ProRes and sends it out as digital files to FCP?

Frank: yes, NAB started today. Maybe Apple is waiting until Tuesday since most announcements will be today I imagine.