meh
Join Date: May 2004
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It's the outrage over Apple "lying and deceiving us" after a reviewer stated it even after Apple confirmed SDR was limited to 500 nits last week a day after the event. That is what is agitating me. It's one thing to be disappointed in something once the full specs are known instead of just going off the marketing material. But the faux outrage is something else..... giggity |
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500 nits brightness vs.: Up to 1000 nits sustained (full-screen) brightness, 1600 nits peak brightness The "up to" is doing a lot of work here. I think they also cited a figure like that at the event. But! Apparently, in very bright environments, the 2021 models will in fact go well beyond the 500 nits you can achieve by manually setting the highest brightness setting. |
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Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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I'm not downplaying/pooh-poohing any of the (amazing) changes/improvements. It's not a "oh, you don't like the notch so you don't appreciate any of the other stuff" thing at all.
Don't be so eager to make your point(s) that you have to try and make it sound like I'm not recognizing how great this new model is, chuckleheads. But if you think this is the best implementation (in something that isn't handheld/pocketable, where fractions of inches/millimeters truly count) or it's something that couldn't negatively impact usability or how menus respond, then nothing I say is going to matter. Maybe the perfect middle-ground is a future macOS update to where they figure some of those things out. That would be fine too, done well (but it may fundamentally change/tweak how things have worked for decades, so that'll be something people would have to be okay with too). Did they not anticipate any of this, and have it cooked into Monterey from the get-go? Or having that in the betas would've given away the hardware feature before they were ready? I can understand that, and maybe there's something underway, software/OS-wise, as we speak? I love the smaller bezels. Were they needed on all three sizes? Nah, not at all. It would've looked just as nice with skinny sides, and a still-skinny top with all the camera/sensor stuff up there and an unbroken display/work area, where none of this has to get defended/debated. Those of you okay with the notch...you're a little too okay with it. It isn't an either/or thing. It could've been a perfect, zero-compromise machine that nobody had anything to squawk about if not for this dumb-butt approach. And how much more "working space" are we truly talking about? Does that really add up/matter, real world? A vertical sliver, spread across the width of the display? Another visible GarageBand track, maybe? Another 1-2 lines of text at Daring Fireball? We're not talking anything huge or "this truly makes a difference". You guys... |
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Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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Probably depends on the program. I know some of that high-end creative software can have a lot of menu headings that, even on those higher-resolution displays, could reach all the way across the bar and hit that notch area.
That was the very first thing I wondered about last Monday after the presentation ended..."but what happens if you have one of those crazy applications with a boatload of menu headings? Where do they go when they reach the notch? Do they side-scroll? Do they pop out on the other side? Do you have to do a right-click thing to see the rest of them? Do they drop down below the standard menu, so you've got drop-downs of drop-downs? Do things actually 'hide' behind the notch and you have to do some key-combo to nudge them over so you can see them? But what if...", and so on. I already had my questions/concerns, nine solid days ago. I've yet to see, hear or read anything that's made me go "ah, gotcha...makes total sense, and actually is a better approach (vs. just making the top bezel a bit taller to hold the camera)!" But I'm open, and if I'm proven wrong on all this I'm big enough to cop to it say so. No ego here. Just not prepared to do so on day two... I'm not "anti-notch". I'm anti-stuff-not-being-the-ideal-approach-when-other-proven-things-are. Way more space to work with on 14" and 16" notebook display, vs. 5-6" iPhone display (which is why nobody here has ever heard me utter one word against the iPhone notch, in over four years). It has never bothered me, and it makes sense there, to be luggable/pocketable with a small-as-possible body. It's a whole different thing to solve/accommodate. Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2021-10-27 at 12:57. |
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Ninja Editor
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bay Area, CA
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Is the notch the end of world? I doubt it. Is it the biggest mistake Apple’s ever made? Again, no (that would be “embracing filename extensions when they switched to Mac OS X”, IMHO). But it does show a serious disregard for the sort of attention to detail WRT the UI & HIGs that made Mac OS so great in the first place. And, unlike the lack of ports, this can’t be fixed with a dongle. When I was a kid, people who did wrong were punished, restricted, and forbidden. Now, when someone does wrong, all of the rest of us are punished, restricted, and forbidden... and the one who did the wrong is counselled and "understood" and fed ice cream. |
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Which way is up?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
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It can be "fixed" with a software toggle.
Honestly, I hope Apple does offer a toggle. Said toggle will just make the top 1/4" of screen unusable. That will be just fine. And then folks can get to whining about the feet. - AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :) - Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9) |
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Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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Something kinda interesting I’ve noticed when watching some of these unboxings and reviews.
In the past, the photography/renders at Apple’s site always looked better than real life. On these new MacBooks, the real life videos and customer pics look nicer than what’s on Apple’s site. They don’t look as clunky, somehow. And that all-black keyboard area is growing on me. It’s all just photographing/filming better in real life than the stuff at Apple.com. The shadows, edges/bevels, etc. show up and look nice. The keys, even against that black well, do seem to stand out more than it initially looked like. Has the Space Grey been tweaked a bit? I can’t tell if it’s just the photos/lighting. It looks different but I can’t quite put my finger on it. Probably not. I guess that’s a pretty dialed-in color at this point. The feet look nice. Probably makes for better air flow/circulation, lifting it off the desk a little more. You never see them while using it anyway. That, to me, is a complete, invisible non-issue (the very definition of the word), unlike that other thing. |
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Ninja Editor
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bay Area, CA
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Nah the feet are great… more air flow is more better, even if they don’t get that hot.
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Definitely up there. I’d put “we went from being able to literally make a bootable OS by dragging the system folder on another disk to needing all kinds of tools” up there. macOS used to be nice and simple and obvious.
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Ninja Editor
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bay Area, CA
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I say “mostly” because I’m still kinda wondering how it shipped before the software was ready. And I really hope it’s not the start of a trend where Apple ends up putting notches for webcams in their desktop monitors, too (if they ever start making affordable ones again). When I was a kid, people who did wrong were punished, restricted, and forbidden. Now, when someone does wrong, all of the rest of us are punished, restricted, and forbidden... and the one who did the wrong is counselled and "understood" and fed ice cream. |
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Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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That's not new, and the article is misleading. The final paragraph is key:
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Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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Worms, meet can. |
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(I'm also not sure why it scales to fit, rather than shifting the menu bar down. The way I read it, it literally proportionally scales down, meaning you also get bezels to the sides. I can't think of any good reason other than to scream "this is not intended behavior" from the rooftops.)
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9" monochrome
Join Date: May 2004
Location: 🇦🇺
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I was hoping for a Mac mini Pro… but since that hasn’t arrived, I’m changing my tune to the MBP. I’m currently using a 2013 MacBook Air 13”, 1.3GHz i5 8GB/128GB. It’s time for an upgrade. I just didn’t expect I’d go for a portable again. Probably max it out too. |
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9" monochrome
Join Date: May 2004
Location: 🇦🇺
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Also, I still have my TiPB.
First thing I thought when I saw the new models was the return to this form factor. I like it. I’m thinking of trying to refurb the TiPB - similar to the way people restore cars. I wonder if it’s possible/worth doing. Thoughts anyone? |
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Pricey, but otherwise pretty great! |
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Ninja Editor
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bay Area, CA
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“Worth doing”? Depends on what needs to be done. If you’ve got cracked/broken parts, I think you’ve probably missed your window, but I’m hardly an expert on the matter. Maybe looks on eBay for parts computers? If it’s just the finish, I think your chances are better? Not sure what all that involves. Does the TiBook have an IDE or SATA HD? I’m pretty sure that someone made an IDE SSD at one point, but those might be too old by now. When I was a kid, people who did wrong were punished, restricted, and forbidden. Now, when someone does wrong, all of the rest of us are punished, restricted, and forbidden... and the one who did the wrong is counselled and "understood" and fed ice cream. |
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Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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These new MacBook Pros are great. I'd buy one in a heartbeat if I needed that performance, definitely. It's the notebook everyone has been wanting for five-plus years, and one that truly lives up to its name. The $200 bump didn't even bum me out because the size increase, improved camera, reinstated ports - not to mention all that new power/performance - seems to justify it. A person, whatever their occupation/profession is, knows if this machine is for them...and they'll cough up the $$$ as needed.
It's as perfect and dialed-in a Mac as anything they've put out in the past decade or so, in terms of giving customers what they wanted and living up to its name. Worth the wait. I look forward to seeing what comes of that pending updated/redesigned Air(?) in 2022...I think some features will be carried over (screen size, keyboard, improved camera, etc.). And if they lose the tapered wedge, as several rumors have talked about, then there's your extra room for a fan and/or more battery. It needn't be as thick as the Pro, so I can see it being a slimmer, slightly lighter 14" MacBook Pro, with the off-white accents and possible colors (at least 1-2, maybe the ones that are selling the best on the 24" iMac?*) that immediately sets it apart, visually (and none of the high-end features in the Pro, of course). A perfect successor to the M1-based $999 Air/$1,299 MacBook Pro, I'm thinking. *Recall that even during the full-tilt iFruit era, where the jellybean iMac had 5-6 colors (if you include graphite), the iBook never had as many options, spending much of its time as Blueberry or Tangerine early on, and then eventually Graphite, Indigo and Key Lime. It never got strawberry, grape, Snow, Ruby, the patterns, etc.). So a 2022 Air successor may be offered in just sliver, blue and ??? And if you roll the Key Lime factor into the equation, then the updated Air could even get a unique color, just for it, that never appeared on the iMac. 2022 is going to be fun. Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2021-10-28 at 11:56. |
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Which way is up?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
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I just tested the "Scale to fit" option and it does as advertised. It "scales to fit". So, you basically get a 13" MacBook Pro screen.
I think it's a temporary fix, but it is a fix. For those of you who need it, it works. - AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :) - Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9) |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Promise Land of Trustafarians
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I just ordered a 14" MBP with the M1 Pro chip and 2TB SSD. $2599, ships early December.
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9" monochrome
Join Date: May 2004
Location: 🇦🇺
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Re: what I was thinking. I haven’t turned it on in ages so am not sure whether it even works. I know it is without a battery though. I was thinking more cosmetically. To me, it’s an iconic design and I’m a sentimental old fool. That said, maybe its worth hunting around for the last iteration… I think they launched a 1GHz model before they switched to aluminium. No G5 of course. Remember those days? |
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Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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We waited for a G5 PowerBook for about 320 years, I think.
Those crazy rumors were all about, etc. I remember those rumors that never quite went away (or panned out). Looking back, it's just as well one never came: 35-minute battery life (if that) and the bottom of it probably hit 700°F. People would replace their Coleman camping stoves with one..."well, it ain't shit for Photoshop, but it can fry some eggs and bacon like nobody's business!" It all managed to shake out in the end. They delivered the goods last Monday. |
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Space Pirate
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
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So I would still need to purchase the charger, right? ... |
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¡Damned!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
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It's confusing because it's a confusing sentence...
The 16-inch MBP comes with a 140W charger and USB-C to MagSafe cable. The 14-inch MBP comes with a 67W or 96W charger and USB-C to MagSafe cable. Maybe the dude you quoted was thinking about a purchase because the 140W adapter is compatible with a lot of other devices? [edit]: From the article above: "... Apple also confirmed that any of the new MacBooks’ Thunderbolt 4 ports can be used to charge the laptops. On the 14-inch MacBook Pro, these ports can be used for fast charging; but fast charging the 16-inch MacBook Pro requires using MagSafe 3 and the 140W adapter because the Thunderbolt 4 predates the USB-C PD 3.1 standard and tops out at 100W." I think that's what your quoter was trying to say. So it goes. |
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Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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For the fast-charging capability, I believe.
Yeah, the whole charging situation on these new notebooks is a little goofy/confusing. Is this the first time Apple’s made a parlor game/upsell opportunity out of it all? I know different lines of notebooks (iBook vs. PowerBook, Macbook vs. Macbbok Pro, the Air, the 12” MacBook, etc.) all came with different wattage chargers for that particular model. But haven’t the Macbook Pro models always come with the same charger? I’ve certainly never been as confused or unsure about what comes with what, and which model does/needs what. They went and got cute with it all for some reason. Every written review and YouTube unboxing/review I’ve taken in this week hasn’t made it any clearer. Does it seem needlessly complex/confusing this go-around or am I just imagining things? I know for a fact I’ve never been unsure about Macbook Pro charging before, so I know it’s not me. |
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The way you can get a $20 more expensive charger option on the 14-inch is a strange upsell.
The 140W thing isn’t. It’s just poor timing. USB-PD currently goes up to 100W; a bigger standard is in the works but not finished. So, this was their best option: you can still charge via USB, but slowly. Or you can use MagSafe. |
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Mr. Vieira
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
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It would never even occur to me to not use what the thing came with, which is all I've ever done my entire life. I didn't know all this other stuff was a thing until I started with the reviews (written and video) this past week.
Just use what came in the box (the model is obviously designed/meant to work with it just fine), and tell Apple to kiss it with their attempts to squeeze another batch of cash from you on an already-expensive product. |
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Space Pirate
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
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So 16 inch buyers are set?
... |
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