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drewprops
Space Pirate
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2004-10-05, 06:25

Boy oh howdy am I glad that I'm not into video games that much, but it sounds like you're making the correct move. You're not a producer, you're a user and you should use the optimal hardware/software combo. Alcimedes referenced the day of time to do a reinstall on a Windows machine, but dude I have the same onerous task to face any time one of MY machines tanks; reinstalling all of my software and upgrades takes FOREVER.

My Gameboy was stolen from my hotel room while I was doing a little job in Walterboro, SC a few years ago. Guess I'm in line for that new GB that's coming out~

(ha, the "Post Quick Reply" button says "STFU Torifile"!)

Steve Jobs ate my cat's watermelon.
Captain Drew on Twitter
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Luca
ಠ_ರೃ
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
 
2004-10-05, 07:29

What's funny is that I wasn't all into gaming (particularly PC gaming) until just a couple months ago. I always played games on my Mac, like Escape Velocity and Unreal Tournament, but until recently I was in the "get a console" camp. I COULD play games on my computer, but I could also play them on a console, so why not use a console?

It was my brother who really ended up getting me into it. Before I moved into my own place, he would have these huge LAN parties and I'd participate of course. It was a ton of fun and although I could play along in their UT2k4 games, I always noticed how mine ran poorly at low settings while everyone else had cheap PCs that ran it perfectly. I bought some upgrades for my machine but it didn't help. And now I'm here. Maybe it's just a phase.
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thuh Freak
Finally broke the seal
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2004-10-05, 12:41

Quote:
Originally Posted by ast3r3x
Now I will destroy any credibility on linux that I seemed to have by asking this, but if a program is written for linux, and I compile a program, will it work on Mandrake PPC, or does it have to specifically be written for Linux PPC instead of Linux x86. I mean is the code the same and the compiler different or or are there no programs for PPC linux distros.
i would say that the majority of GNU/Linux applications are written generically for any unix/unix-like OS; often they can even be brought over to osx and compiled. depending on how close to the hardware they are, that is. drivers are written specifically for hardware, and are OS specific (often called linux kernel modules, or LKMs). the kernel itself is mostly architecture independant, with some stuff that is written specifically for each architecture that linux supports. for the most part, in the pieces of linux kernel code that i've looked at are architecture independant. linux, if memory serves, even makes efforts to ease cross-compatibility, so well made LKM source can be used on any architecture without modification.

an average program, like i don't know... 'ls' probably has 0 architecture specific things in it. (ls is the "list directory contents" program. like 'dir' for DOS.) the GNU Compiler Collection (gcc), which is used for virtually every GNU/Linux program I've ever seen, has to be made for each architecture, and i'm sure that it is probably mostly architecture specific code (since it has to output into an architecture specific binary/executable-file).

for the most part, you can download the same source code as x86 people would download, and compile+install it {typically, you would type './configure && make all && sudo make install'}. many projects have pre-built binaries so u dont have to compile; some distros also host binaries of programs. some programmers do things which are pretty architecture-dependant (i don't know if you've heard of endian-ness, or are familiar with programming, but problems around endian-ness are the most common cross-compatibility issue. they are pretty easy to fix too, once you track them down).

.

topic at hand: Luca, you are teh sukc. remember that under windows (or "winblow$" as it is commonly called) you have a significantly increased virus risk. your soul is slowly being sucked away (and not sucked away in that fun way, like getting action on a saturday night. but in an unfun way, with razor blades and pitchforks).

for me, gnu/linux is the OS. a ps2 console for playing games, and a gnu/linux console for writing games.
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alcimedes
I shot the sherrif.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Send a message via ICQ to alcimedes  
2004-10-05, 12:48

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca
What's funny is that I wasn't all into gaming (particularly PC gaming) until just a couple months ago. I always played games on my Mac, like Escape Velocity and Unreal Tournament, but until recently I was in the "get a console" camp. I COULD play games on my computer, but I could also play them on a console, so why not use a console?

It was my brother who really ended up getting me into it. Before I moved into my own place, he would have these huge LAN parties and I'd participate of course. It was a ton of fun and although I could play along in their UT2k4 games, I always noticed how mine ran poorly at low settings while everyone else had cheap PCs that ran it perfectly. I bought some upgrades for my machine but it didn't help. And now I'm here. Maybe it's just a phase.
yep, that's exactly where i was when i was playing CounterStrike. no reason to have a mac, so i was building PC's.

once i got sick of the FPS genre, PC's lost their allure.

i do understand that any machine can need a reinstall of some applications or the OS on occasion, but the ability to just drag and drop apps to install them has never been more appreciated than by me. i love it, and it makes any kind of upkeep/maintanence a breeze.

we'll see though, it could easily be years before you ever get truly sick of windows. i don't think i was pushed over the edge until i had to support them on a daily basis. then it just got to be too much.

guess i just don't like using a tool where i feel like it's a constant struggle to keep it doing what it should be doing. if you're using a Mac to game, then that's exactly what you're doing. i just feel like that's how it is using a PC to do everything else.

Google is your frenemy.
Caveat Emptor - Latin for tough titty
I tend to interpret things in the way that's most hilarious to me
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2004-10-05, 13:09

Wouldn't it just be bitchin' if Apple simply made (or at least offered BTO options) capable, butt-kicking gaming systems? Is it the graphics card that's most at play here (I don't game, so I don't know)?

This seems to be the one constant, shared complaint about the Mac (gaming).

What is it about the Mac that makes it lacking in this field, specifically?
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alcimedes
I shot the sherrif.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Send a message via ICQ to alcimedes  
2004-10-05, 13:28

Quote:
What is it about the Mac that makes it lacking in this field, specifically?
None of the games are native, and ports of anything that takes 100% cpu usage always suck. as others mentioned, Blizzard's games tend to perform very well on Macs, because they were written for them from the ground up.

Google is your frenemy.
Caveat Emptor - Latin for tough titty
I tend to interpret things in the way that's most hilarious to me
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2004-10-05, 13:33

Is there not this huge, gaping hole then, that could be filled by some smart, talented company, creating Mac-only games? Seems like a ready-made niche, waiting to be filled!

Again, not being a gamer, I truly don't understand the politics, inner-workings, economics, etc. of this, so forgive me if the above question is exceptionally stupid.
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EDS66
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Arlington, VA
 
2004-10-05, 13:35

Just wait till you are neck-deep in mal-ware. We will see who is going to run circles around whom.
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Chinney
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ottawa, ON
 
2004-10-05, 14:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0
Is there not this huge, gaping hole then, that could be filled by some smart, talented company, creating Mac-only games? Seems like a ready-made niche, waiting to be filled!

Again, not being a gamer, I truly don't understand the politics, inner-workings, economics, etc. of this, so forgive me if the above question is exceptionally stupid.
As I have posted before in another thread, I wonder why Apple does not do this itself. Why not hire a few top-flight developers to do a few really cutting-edge games for their OS – something different, something cool, something that could become a ‘must-have’ even for gamers on other platforms? They might take a loss on initial development (although they have the cash to do this), but it could be a jump start for more gaming development on OS X, and be a ‘demonstration-project’ for what the platform can do. And eventually, after it has been “OS X only” for a while, they could license ports to PC or to consoles.

When there's an eel in the lake that's as long as a snake that's a moray.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2004-10-05, 14:20

I'm all for it!

Make me a "fly the space shuttle" and an "Old West shootout in the streets" game with cool, realistic graphics, sound, etc., and I'm there!
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Luca
ಠ_ರೃ
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
 
2004-10-05, 14:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS66
Just wait till you are neck-deep in mal-ware. We will see who is going to run circles around whom.


Yeah, because I use Internet Explorer and Kazaa all the time...

Saying that PCs always get spyware and viruses is like saying all Macs are slow and only for graphic designers. It's a popular misconception among people who don't use Windows that it's absolutely crawling with little things that will come out in the night and bite you.

I use Firefox, which is not susceptible to malware. I don't use an email program AT ALL, and instead I simply use webmail. I installed a free copy of Symantec AntiVirus that my school gave me, and I run AdAware and Spybot once every week or two. So far I have found no spyware, malware, or viruses at all. Most PC users just don't know what they're doing and thing IE6 = teh intarnet, so they mess things up. If you're smart, it's not a huge problem.

BTW, there have been a couple of Mac-only game developers in the past, but Ambrosia Software is the last one. And it's been over a year since they last released a game. Bungie and Pangea also used to be Mac-only, but Bungie obviously isn't like that anymore, and I'm not sure about Pangea. They've gone downhill. The problem is that there's this circle... game developers don't want to develop for the Mac, because there are no Mac gamers. There are no Mac gamers because there are very few good Mac games. Macs represent a very small part of the market, but if some company were to write a very good game that runs really well, they'd probably make money. It's just that the potential for success is so much higher on the PC side that no one ends up wanting to develop for the Mac. But on the flip side, there are so many PC games that unless it's really good, no one will buy it.
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Chinney
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ottawa, ON
 
2004-10-05, 15:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0
I'm all for it!

Make me a "fly the space shuttle" and an "Old West shootout in the streets" game with cool, realistic graphics, sound, etc., and I'm there!
I am not a big gamer either, but some sort of cutting edge space-travel game might do it for me. I’d call like to see it called “Strange New Worlds” – with the emphasis on ‘strange’. In addition to an opportunity for exploration and diplomacy, I’d like to see the game also allow you to take on the aliens mano a mano, if necessary.

Wait a second, that sounds like……………………..Star Trek. Ack, its been done. But I am sure it could be done way better in the “demonstration project” game I am imagining.

Or maybe something completely different again. How about “White Blood Cells” a high resolution, cutting-edge graphics 3D combat game based on struggles within a human body? Been done? I imagine the possibilities for online play “C’mon guys, help me out here in the upper intestine”.

When there's an eel in the lake that's as long as a snake that's a moray.
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EDS66
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Arlington, VA
 
2004-10-05, 15:18

I am glad you are so vigilant...but this just supports what others are saying. You are expending considerable effort just to protect your PC. No need to do that with Macs.

I support PCs all days and have seen spyware infestations on machines operated by very knowledgeable power users. Not to say that you will get it, but still; it's a possibility.

My productions machines at home are Macs. My servers are PCs.
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BenRoethig
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dubuque, IA
 
2004-10-05, 17:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca
Okay, this has been in the works for at least a week now, but I haven't told a lot of people. But I think it will provide an interesting discussion, and perhaps separate the mature among us from the immature .

I'm switching from my Mac to a PC. Yeah, that's correct. I built a cheap $400 PC about two weeks ago from new or lightly used parts, and it runs circles around my Mac at pretty much everything. I bought a KVM switch so I can have the Mac and PC hooked up to the same keyboard/mouse/monitor set, but I rarely use the Mac anymore.

Now I'll try to explain why I decided to switch to the "dark side":

I use my computer for a few simple things... listening to music (iTunes), AOL Instant Messenger, surfing the interweb, basic organization functions (contact list, calendar, to-do list), image manipulation (Photoshop Elements), DVD playback and burning, and gaming. I don't make home movies, I don't make music or anything... just those basic functions. Normally, I'd just stay with what Mac I have, since it's fine for all those things. Except gaming. I put a Radeon 9800 Pro in the Mac, and upgraded the processor to a 1.33 GHz G4, and it still sucks for gaming. The PC has an Athlon XP 2400+ (runs at 2.0 GHz), half the RAM of the Mac (512 MB), and a Radeon 9600 Pro video card... and it completely kills the G4 at anything involving 3D acceleration.

I came up with an interesting analogy for my situation. No, not a car analogy. A strip club analogy . Bear with me (pun intended). There are plenty of strip clubs that cater to different audiences, but the two most basic ones are the lowest common denominator club that isn't too expensive and is geared towards college students, and the classy, upscale "gentlemen's club." You might spend $50 at a cheap club while an upscale one might cost $100 or $150 for a night out. And at this point in my life, I don't really appreciate all the little niceties that you'd get from a gentlemen's club. So I just go to the cheap one and have fun, and either way, I see boobs . Maybe in a few years I'll have more money and learn to appreciate the nicer club, but until then why not just go to the place that is specifically targeted to me?

Same with Macs and PCs. I'm a tinkerer, and while my computer always ran the Mac OS, I didn't treat it the way one treats Macs. I kept trying to get more out of it by adding ridiculously expensive upgrades. I'm just too much of a tinkerer and I don't have enough money to truly appreciate the Mac. I would never even dream of getting an iMac - they're not expandable at all! But perhaps in five or six years, when I am on the road to a successful career and computers take a back seat to the finer things in life, I can once again buy (and appreciate) a sleek, elegant, and efficient Mac. Macs aren't meant for people like me, gearheads who want the latest and greatest stuff for as cheap as you can get it.

So, what do you guys all think of this? Want to disown me yet? I still like Macs, in case you're wondering. They're just not right for me (yet).

P.S. If anyone wants a PowerMac, I'm selling mine. 1.33 GHz G4 upgrade, 1 GB of RAM, 80 GB hard drive, 8x DVD burner, Radeon 9800 Pro, USB 2.0 PCI card, with a Quicksilver 2001 motherboard and case. It's a screamer, about on par with the iMac G5s, and the Xbench score is generally around 130-140. I'm looking to get a grand or just slightly more for it, which I will use to build a very nice, tricked out PC. This old POS PC I'm using now isn't really up to my standards if it's going to be my only computer.
I went that route myself. I switched back after I couldn't stand windows anymore.
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Gargoyle
http://ga.rgoyle.com
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: In your dock hiding behind your finder icon!
 
2004-10-06, 03:39

What games you play, I have a PC too. I used to play Tribes2 a few years back - our team was number 5 in one of the european competitions. Then I kinda lost interest in games and just had my Macs.

Now I am getting back into the games I have bought myself a "Cheap" gaming machine. Been playing a bit of CS and am waiting to get my hands on the new Tribes game.

PS. I only have antivirus running on my PC. No ad aware and No firewall. Why? because I know what I am doing. Don't get me wrong - I do not like windows, but when you know what to do, its as stabe as anything else. I have no applications that run at startup or things like that. I want MAXIMUM space for the games.

OK, I have given up keeping this sig up to date. Lets just say I'm the guy that installs every latest version as soon as its available!
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racepres
New Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: mid-Michigan
 
2004-10-08, 08:23

Just my 2cents but we use only mac for business. We always have and probably always will due to not only security, but ease, and we have some customized apps. for our office. P C's yea we have one in the office for the web and some photo manipulation (for the web).the wife has a pc laptop at home she uses for the web and her digital PIX, for the same reason the boys' have pc's, They are what they learned on in school. Personally I will keep my mac's period, but not exclusively, and I would like to perhaps learn more abt linux. But you can bet I will keep 1 pc around not caring how infected it gets cause it has zero sensitive info on it. And it's disposable! Just my 2 plus cents MLV

Last edited by racepres : 2004-10-08 at 08:26. Reason: clarification
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