[Kraetos]

Hey Guys,

I don't know where else to go, and AppleNova has always been a wonderful community for me, so I guess I'll go here.

I don't know how else to say this, so I guess I'll just say it.

One of my best friends in the entire world - I love this guy so much, he means the world to me - just recently (today) told me that he hurts himself, intentionally.

As in, cutting himself and burning himself.

I didn't know what to say when he told me. I just hugged him. He didn't say anything. It was late and he said he wanted to go to bed. He told me that he's never told anyone in his life and he didn't want me to tell anyone either. And I want to respect his wishes, but at the same time, I don't know what to do.

He's not an AN member, and so I figured I would rely on the relative anonymity that AN provides to help me figure this out. I've been awake for hours, unable to sleep, since he told me.

Guys, what should I do? Is he in serious trouble? Is he going to... possibly... take his own life? People who do this to themselves, are they at higher risk of doing that?
Should I tell the counselors here on campus? Even though that would be breaking the promise I made to him that I wouldn't tell anyone?

torifile, I know you deal with this kind of stuff, what is your advice? I hope I am not breaking any kind of professional rules by asking you. I don't have much experience with this. I just don't know what to do.

I've only known him for a few months, but he means a lot to me. And I don't want him to keep hurting himself. But he says it's the only way. The only way he can feel better. And I just, I don't understand that. How can hurting yourself make you feel better?

Do ANY of you have experience with this? What should I do?

Thank you guys for your advice, in advance. I just, I don't know what to do.

[spikeh]

Originally Posted by Kraetos Thank you guys for your advice, in advance. I just, I don't know what to do.

My ex-girlfriend's best friend did this for a while (cut herself regularly from the age of about 16-19). It seemed much more like attention seeking than what you describe, though - she told all and sundry about it, and made a great show of hiding razor blades in the back of her mobile phone. I don't really have any advice, but hope you guys sort it, self-harming sucks.

[_Ω_]

I think it is good that at least this person has opened up to you, and trusts you with this information.

As for what is right to do? I don't know either. I just didn't want to see this thread get 50 views with no responses, and I hope somebody here can give you the advice that helps.

[chucker]

Kraetos, first of all, I'm sorry to hear this.

To evaluate the situation, however, it would help a lot to know this person's age. If it's beyond the late teenage years, it's much more likely to be a serious situation.

As for danger of suicide, the fact that he tells you about this suggests that he wants to be saved; people who truly go through with suicide tend to avoid warning others about it.

Sorry if this is a little brief.

[digitalprimate]

I don't much about the subject, but heard (and read) a few times about it.

Self-mutilation is I think the general term (sorry to sound so clinical).

Maybe you (and in the long term he as well) will find some answers here.

Self Injury

[chucker]

And, for that matter, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-injury

[jondaapplegeek]

First off... let him know he is not alone.
Self harming is NOT unusal (more than 1 in 10 15-16 year olds in the UK have deliberately harmed themselves). It's not just him, and there are places, people, projects that can help, if he so wishes.
Also, if your willing (which is sounds you are) make sure he knows you are there. When ever he needs you. In Person. text. email. phone. anything. Also, again if your willing, say that you are more then happy to arrange and/or join him to see counselors.
Also remember you are very improtant. These things can, and will, get you down. They are a burden that you have to carry. Try and find someone you know well, but that doesn't know your friend and tell them everything (apart from names etc). Why? Well this person doesn't know the person - it won't such a burden on them, but it means you get it off you chest, and there is someone there to help you, and to chat to you. It really does help. If your feeling down and depressed about things - what hope have you got to help him?

[staph]

As it happens, I know lots of people who cut themselves, and are certainly not suicidal. It gives them a bit of a buzz and a bit of, for want of a better expression, reality which helps them when they're feeling depressed. For others it's more-or-less an art-form.

Given that it sounds like he's ashamed of his behaviour, I'm guessing he's not in the latter group, so you may want to keep an eye on him — he's probably a bit depressed. Having said that, I don't think there's much to worry about unless he's showing other signs of being suicidal.

I suspect you'd be surprised how common a behaviour it is.

[intlplby]

you know what's funny.... reading the threads in order today I got "Drew's Poo Log; A Very Unpleasant Topic (Self-Injury)

what great juxtaposition

[Kickaha]

I've known a number of friends who self-hurt... every single one of them, sooner or later, admitted being the victim of abuse of one form or another as a young child. Talk to him to see someone. Not to stop the cutting, but to uncover *why* and work on that. Don't mention the cutting, that's his 'security blanket', and anything that threatens that will be denied. Chances are, if he works through the whys, the need to cut will go away on its own. And if it doesn't... well, heck, I have friends who are clinical masochists too, and they're right fine people.

The cutting is just a symptom of something deeper in most cases, especially if it's accompanied by shame. Ignore the symptom, and help him work on the cause, if he'll let you.

[InactionMan]

Like Kickaha, everyone I know that cut were at some point the victim of abuse. What's odd is that I've had friends that showed no signs of depression kill themselves yet none of the cutters I've known have ever killed themselves.

[turtle]

A little of this effected my life with my oldest daughter after I got custody of her.

My ex is such a bitch that she encouraged the kids to hurt themselves for attention. So after getting custody of my daughter she did this. She engraved a star in her leg with a pencil. I was shocked to see this and so was my wife.

We discovered the reason was just for the sake of attention. If she was injured at her mothers house then she would be coddled and get "anything she wanted". I'm not saying that is the reason your friend is doing it, but I guess it's more to support that there are lots of people who do. I would guess that most people have different reasons. My daughter did it because she thought there was something to gain from the self-inflicted pain. She was about 10 when she did this. There was nothing for he to gain after we discovered her motive and it hasn't happened since.

As for suicide, in the military they tell you not to break confidence unless it will prevent homicide or suicide. If you think there might be a tendency for either of those you might consider telling someone. Try not to personally take on his issue either. Support him, but don't make his issues your own. You have enough to deal with on your own and you can't make yourself responsible for his actions. However, see if you can find the real reason he does it and help to solve that issue. I wish you the best.

[thegelding]

mmm, every cutter i've known has been female...

can't help too much except to say they all "grew out of it"...but it took years...none killed themselves, but you should still be as close and helpful as possible...let them know you don't really like that they cut themselves, that you really don't understand why they cut themselves, but that you love them, will always love them and will stand by and with them

g

[chucker]

Originally Posted by Kickaha I've known a number of friends who self-hurt... every single one of them, sooner or later, admitted being the victim of abuse of one form or another as a young child. Talk to him to see someone. Not to stop the cutting, but to uncover *why* and work on that.

That doesn't have to be the cause.

One of my 'ex'es hurt herself because of me. That was… tough.

And if it doesn't [go away]... well, heck, I have friends who are clinical masochists too, and they're right fine people.

To me, this doesn't sound like clinical masochism at all. Admittedly, though, the description is somewhat vague.

Originally Posted by thegelding mmm, every cutter i've known has been female...

Ditto.

[BuonRotto]

Talk to him to see if he will see someone, a counselor at least.

The best thing anyone ever did for me, by the way, when I had depression back in high school (I wasn't cutting myself, but the circumstances are similar), was my ex-girlfriend went to the school counselor and the counselor brought me into her office and we talked. It was on the down-low, it was confidential, I didn't know who brought my case to her until much later, and it started me on the path to recovery. It turned my life around, really. At 31, from when I was 17, I can say it's made all the difference; it got the ball rolling.

Please go to someone who can help if he refuses to do so himself. His plight and your identity are both protected.

[Banana]

BuonRotto, while that's great you got help back then, I'm thinking that this counselor must be a heck of guy to get you to open up. Severeal depressed people I've known has adversity toward counselors, and it wouldn't matter a whit if counselors were most friendilest and cool people.

I suppose that if the person in question had problem with the idea of seeing someone, another routine may be better?

[BuonRotto]

I didn't open up much to the counselor, despite her being super-friendly, but she recommend a visit to a psychologist on the weekend. I didn't have great rapport with him but he said that my case was serious enough to warrant a possible hospital stay and gave me the number to a psychiatrist who I did have a good rapport with.

Things won't magically happen with that counselor. That counselor should have a good understanding of the dynamic that has to happen, and should have an idea of what else can be done. It's just a first step to many, not a cure but finding some path towards helping this person.

It's the best place to start.

There's no reason not to try it, assuming things can be kept quiet and confidential, especially for your friend. I don't mean to say that it's an answer or to get your hopes up too much pursuing this one lead.

[adding a preachy bit:]

I should say this is after having a lot of people, including teachers, talk to me and not getting through. My situation wasn't magic, it didn't suddenly turn around. I still have issues from time to time with depression, but not I have tools to manage my problems. That's what your friend needs too. not a cure, not a change in attitude alone, but tools he has in his head to always manage his problems.

More importantly, understand that you cannot fix or help your friend if he does not agree to help himself. You are not responsible for what he does or does not do. That's his decision, his free will, not yours. You cannot feel you didn't do enough if he doesn't cooperate, if he doesn't follow through or gets angry at you. As a friend, however, you *are* responsible enough to ask and try to get him help, to put him in a position where he can help himself. That's all anyone can ask of you, and you're doing it. You cannot control what other people do, you can only show them you care enough that you hope he stops. Please realize your limitations in this matter, frustrating as they may be.

There is no one course for anyone's problem to be resolved. We're individuals after all.

[Banana]

Oh, agreed wholeheartedly.

[torifile]

I've worked with both male and female cutters. The vast majority are women/girls but there's a not insignificant number of men/boys who cut, too. As you've all noticed, there are a couple distinct reasons for cutting and one is more troubling and harder to address than the other: 1) cutting for "attention" and 2) cutting for emotion regulation.

Often, but not exclusively, the latter is done in private and takes much more work to address. And, based on my own clinical experience, is correlated with childhood abuse. The "good" news, if there is any, is that cutting behavior is often unassociated with suicide. That is, there's a correlation, but it's a spurious one (e.g., two things appear to be related but it's actually because of their relationship with a 3rd factor that they are. In this case, I'd venture to say that they both share hopelessness). As I said in my PM to Kraetos, getting professional help is important. I've been working with cutters for years and it's *very hard work*. You can't do it alone, that's for sure.

[zippy]

Maybe his revelation to you is a plea for help. And maybe what he needs is for you to help him to seek more professional help. Don't break his trust at this point, just talk to him and try to get him to seek the help on his own - tell him you'll go with him if you are willing. He may just need the encouragement and support.

[alcimedes]

sent you a PM.

[Kraetos]

Thank you all for your replies and PMs. For the record, he's 19, slightly older than I am. We're both freshmen.

I've been thinking about what some of you said - focus on the root of the problem. Something that immediately pops to mind is the fact that he just ended a very serious relationship with his longtime high school girlfriend. It was not a pleasant breakup, feelings are still hurt and nerves are frayed. I am thinking that one of the reasons he came to me, besides the fact that we're best friends, is that I am in the same boat, as far as relationship status goes. I am sure most of you know what I am talking about, there's a thread about it somewhere around here.

I am also sure that this isn't the only cause, especially since he said he's been doing this since before said ex-girlfriend. He's a very intelligent person, and I have read that intelligent people are often also hypersensitive to emotional stimuli, partially because they are more aware of whats going on around them, and partially because they can decypher it better. He is also on anti-depressants, and he's said hes battled with this for a while.

He also agreed that it's a good idea to go back for therapy. He set up an appointment with the counselors here on campus and has said hes going to start looking for someone to see regularly.

Again, thanks. Your advice has really helped me give my friend some of my own advice.

[Wrao]

Sounds like he needs a hobby. I was torn up for a long time over a girl, and while some aspects of that never healed(and probably never will), all it took to get my life manageable and productive was a couple hobbies. The most gratifying for me has been weight-lifting. It feels great to move heavy weights, it feels great to get stronger, and it feels great to know that you are improving your appearance and over-all health. Another hobby I have acquired lately is the acquisition of hot sauces, including some deathly hot ones. Talk about self-injury, only without the physical trauma.

I don't support the intelligent argument too much. A lot of people are very intelligent, and they are prone to such and such, but that's still just a crutch/excuse for poor behavior. My whole life I've been treated as 'very intelligent', and by all accounts, I am. I can align myself with just about every tortured/misunderstood genius stereotype in the book... but why? it is far more productive to focus your efforts on living a better life, than worrying about how your traits are positively or negatively affecting things.

Anyway, I don't think he is suicidal, he sounds too dramatic for that. In fact, most likely this whole thing is a spout of drama.

Ultimately, there isn't much you can do I don't think, but I would recommend, including him as much as possible in activities, getting him interested in new activities, pursuing new hobbies, and no one says they have to be easy and simple ones. Go skydiving or do something else that is thrilling and adrenaline packed.

In my experiences with depressed people(even people that cut themselves), more often than not, they... don't really live life. They just kinda drone through their days until they have their alone time. Thinking about everything way too much, and not really experiencing what life has to offer. In my personal experiences with depression, what always helps is doing something extraordinary. Going for an impromptu trip, doing some extreme sport, something exciting, something that I have no idea or bearing with at all. Because, it thoroughly reminds me that my bullshit is just that. bullshit.

[FFL]

Sounds like he needs a hobby. I was torn up for a long time over a girl, and while some aspects of that never healed(and probably never will), all it took to get my life manageable and productive was a couple hobbies.

Bourbon and The Blues always helped me at that age and stage. It may not sound too healthy, but it is a very traditional approach. Both work better when shared with a buddy.

[torifile]

Make sure he sees a DBT therapist. Where are you? Maybe I can see if there are any in your area.

[Kraetos]

Originally Posted by torifile Make sure he sees a DBT therapist. Where are you? Maybe I can see if there are any in your area.

Albany/Schenectady/Saratoga Springs area.

"DBT"?

[torifile]

Originally Posted by Kraetos Albany/Schenectady/Saratoga Springs area. "DBT"?

Dialectical Behavior Therapy

Lemme see what I can find.