[MagSafe]

Hey folks,

I've been holding out for the new MS Office and after hearing it won't be out for at least another 8 months (I guess that'll be about August 2007 at least??) i'll need to find something else to replace my dodgy version of 2004 with. I'd rather not use MS products in the first place so it'll probably be good to get away from it.

I'm needing an office suite to use on my iBook anyway for opening the odd word file, so I was going to give either iWork '06 or NeoOffice 2 a go on it before installing it on my main mac.

What do people think? Is there any other alternatives I should consider? Whats better ... NeoOffice 2 or iWork '06? (I've never used either) I see iWork doesn't have a spreadsheet program so thats a huge downfall, and I need to know my way around MS Office for when i'm in work, so a big decision here!

Thanks for any comments, suggestions and/or advice

[Shades of Blue]

I personally don't like NeoOffice that much because it seems to run really slow compared to other applications, it takes up a ton of memory when it's open, and it just feels slow and dumb. On the other hand, I figure iWork '07 will be out in a couple of months, so I'm going to struggle along with NeoOffice for a while longer (since it does do everything I need it to do) and then get iWork '07 when it comes out (possibly with the spreadsheet you're looking for).

[Brad]

In my humble opinion...

• NeoOffice Advantages:
  • It's free.
  • Import/export of Microsoft Office formats is very good.
  • Comparable to MS Office, including word processing, presentation, spreadsheet, drawing, and database features all in one app.
  • User interface is very close to the UI of Microsoft Office. (low learning curve for existing Office users)
  • Endless configuration options.
• NeoOffice Disadvantages:
  • Despite its recent "aquafication", NeoOffice still doesn't look or behave entirely like an app that was built specifically for Mac OS X.
  • It's still in beta and is still a bit crash-happy.
  • Zero support for native Mac OS X services.
  • Mediocre support for drag-and-drop.
  • The interface is sometimes slow to refresh.
  • User interface is very close to the UI of Microsoft Office. (MS Office's UI isn't exactly the greatest UI in the world)
  • Endless configuration options.

• iWork Advantages:
  • It's much cheaper than Microsoft Office.
  • Import/export of Microsoft Office formats is decent.
  • Native Mac OS X services for text.
  • Excellent support for drag-and-drop.
  • Includes several very professional-looking templates.
  • Those glorious smart guides!
  • Excellent graphics support.
  • User interface is in some ways very different from the UI of Microsoft Office. (improved in some ways)
• iWork Disadvantages:
  • It's not free.
  • Import/export of Microsoft Office formats is sometimes not as good as OpenOffice (NeoOffice).
  • Only includes word processor and presentation apps. No spreadsheet, database, or drawing apps.
  • User interface is in some ways very different from the UI of Microsoft Office. (higher learning curve for existing Office users)

I think Shades of Blue has the right idea. I'd suggest trying to survive on NeoOffice for a few months until 2007. If Apple keeps up with the trend it set over the past few years, a new version of iWork will be released in January. Hopefuly it will include some sort of spreadsheet app to appease the masses who refuse to purchase iWork until it has one.

[Fahrenheit]

One thing that I don't like about Mac Office vs. XP Office, is the way all the toolbars are in panes and things, whereas at least in XP its all in one window and so you dont lose things. Kind of like Photoshop, where I always have to move panes around to see things behind it (thats in XP and Mac).

But I have iWork and I like it. Although its not great for writing essays and stuff, imho.

[Sketch]

Originally Posted by Farenheit Although its not great for writing essays and stuff, imho

True that.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by iceman009 True that.

Why exactly do you say that?

When I was still at university, I decided to try out the first version of Pages and it worked very well for "writing essays and stuff". If you expect it to behave like MS Office, of course you'll be sorely disappointed. If you approach it with a fresh perspective and are willing to learn its own ways instead of trying to mimic how Office works, you may find it does a surprisingly good job.

[MagSafe]

Hmm, thanks for all the posts ... a lot more than i expected so thank you very much!

Unfortunately i still don't have much of an idea as to what i'm going to go for , part of me is thinking i'd much rather get iWork which would leave another MS app behind and I wouldn't have to depend on it anymore ... but then I also remember I use MS Access for a lot of database stuff when i'm using ASP and that Office isn't actually that bad.

I actually think I might just bite the bullet and buy MS Office 2004 from eBay, I don't use it enough to let the whole Rosetta thing annoy me and with the rest of my software it will nice and legal and i'll be able to use it for a good few years before I have to think about upgrading.

Hmm, I've always been a fan of freeware app's or ones that require a small fee (Handbrake, Visual Hub, Transmit, TextMate to name but a few) but for some reason NeoOffice 2 doesn't really appeal to me, I guess because it is such a major application on my main machine ... I know I said I don't use it much but for things like home financing, updating the old CV now and then and trying to produce a professional looking presentation you don't feel quite right relying on a freeware beta app.

So, the question now is should I bother waiting to see what happens with iWork or just buy Office 2004. I was about to type there that I can see a big improvement to iWork in January, but actually I can't tbh. I can never see Apple going down to whole formula route that you need to learn for Excel, but you never know I guess.

[faramirtook]

Originally Posted by Farenheit But I have iWork and I like it. Although its not great for writing essays and stuff, imho.

Oh wow, I think it's great for writing essays. It does have a learning curve for those types of features, but I think it's spectacular.

it doesn't work like MS word, with grammar check and such, which I think is really awesome. it's a totally different system, and I think it works well.


In short, I concur with Brad.

[MagSafe]

I just remember I actually bought MS Office for Windows that i've got on Parallels, so I don't like the thought of giving MS even more money for the same app

I'm starting to think of giving iWork a try, i started to think how much i actually use an office suite at home and it definetly isn't worth spending another load of cash on another version of Office, I use Excel once a month for keeping my financing up to date which is really only using a few basic formulas anyway, i'm sure thats nothing Pages couldn't handle? (I remember watching Steve Jobs demonstrating the built in spreadsheet stuff at the last MacWorld)

I'll have to take another look at iWork, it definetly is worth considering.

[Yonzie]

I was going to say NeoOffice and not iWork, but reading Brad and faramirtooks comments I rethought my comment.

Coming from Word, OpenOffice is easy to pick up and run with. The basic idea is the same and it has about the same features.
Pages is... different. It's really more of a DTP tool than a word processor IMHO, although it'll happily do that as well, you just need to re-learn it.

My advice: Download NeoOffice. Try it out and see if it fits. You can always spend money and the copies of Office on eBay won't magically diappear if you find out you want it

Re: Access, install MySQL and get something like this, then ditch ASP and learn PHP

[v.noir]

Originally Posted by MagSafe I use MS Access for a lot of database stuff when i'm using ASP

Let's not forget that the Mac version of Office doesn't have Access, I assume because of the reliance on the unported JET engine.

[MagSafe]

Originally Posted by Yonzie Re: Access, install MySQL and get something like this, then ditch ASP and learn PHP

I need to use ASP & Access for work unfortunatly ... and I already use PHP & MySQL.

Anyways, I've just been watching the Macworld 2006 footage and they just skipped right through the new iWork '06, no demo or anything

[Luca]

I'm almost embarrassed to admit this, but I don't feel at home writing or editing unless I'm in Microsoft Word, and nothing else. I really just don't like iWork. It's strange, and like many Apple apps it gives me the impression that Apple is deliberately removing features for the sake of simplicity. Word, on the other hand, is pretty bloated, and there are a lot of things I hate about it, but there are also a lot of features I can't live without. Track changes, for instance, is a godsend since I'm a technical writer and editor.

Since NeoOffice is free, why not just download it and give it a shot? It should be able to hold you over until the next versions of Office and iWork are released. I wouldn't buy either of those right now unless you can get a damn good deal.

[lavieboheme]

In my experience, it's a matter of personal preference. I personally do not like NeoOffice (though I have not yet used the lastest, supposedly more aqua-fied version) as it feels slow, and looks too Windows-ish.
Why don't you download NeoOffice and compare it with the iWork trial that came with your computer? Granted your iWork trial may be that of an earlier version, but I don't think it's changed that much. That way, you'll be able to decide for yourself which one works the best for you and your needs.

[Wyatt]

Originally Posted by faramirtook Oh wow, I think it's great for writing essays. It does have a learning curve for those types of features, but I think it's spectacular. it doesn't work like MS word, with grammar check and such, which I think is really awesome. it's a totally different system, and I think it works well. In short, I concur with Brad.

I agree, too. I'm a huge Pages fan, and I use it for all my writing for class. There's only one class I don't use it for, and it's because the professor is picky and won't take a PDF or a print out.

[rasmits]

MS Office for Mac is really not a bad program. I use Word all the time, and I rarely have any problems with it. There's no reason to avoid a good piece of software just because it has "Microsoft" written on the box. NeoOffice on the other hand is ugly, slow, and unreliable.

iWork, as it currently stands, is not a full MS Office replacement. Keynote alone is worth it's price though. I don't know if you do many presentations, but that program is light-years ahead of PowerPoint.

[Wyatt]

Originally Posted by rasmits MS Office for Mac is really not a bad program. I use Word all the time, and I rarely have any problems with it. There's no reason to avoid a good piece of software just because it has "Microsoft" written on the box. NeoOffice on the other hand is ugly, slow, and unreliable. iWork, as it currently stands, is not a full MS Office replacement. Keynote alone is worth it's price though. I don't know if you do many presentations, but that program is light-years ahead of PowerPoint.

I agree that Office isn't bad. I love the Mac version of Excel. I find that I'm able to work faster in Pages than in MS Word, but Excel is fantastic. (That said, I'll probably still uninstall office if iWork 07 includes a spreadsheet app, just to save disk space.)

[Sketch]

Originally Posted by Brad When I was still at university, I decided to try out the first version of Pages and it worked very well for "writing essays and stuff". If you expect it to behave like MS Office, of course you'll be sorely disappointed. If you approach it with a fresh perspective and are willing to learn its own ways instead of trying to mimic how Office works, you may find it does a surprisingly good job.

When I tried iWork, I didn't like the whole layout thing and stuff like that. Because I mainly write scientific reports and I need the formatting to be done fast, and don't want to go into inspector things and explore the whole contents. May be I am toooooooo used to MS Office and probably you are right about learning the iWork way than trying to mimic the Office way.

[MagSafe]

hmm, i must have removed the iWork trial on my mac when i first got it, and the version of OS X i got recently didn't come with one unfortunatly, so i haven't got anything i can use to try iWork.

I'm back to the beginning again with wondering what the best suite is to use, but i think in the meantime i'm looking at MS Office from eBay or downloading NeoOffice 2 until i can see what iWork '07 will be like.

[Fahrenheit]

Originally Posted by MagSafe hmm, i must have removed the iWork trial on my mac when i first got it, and the version of OS X i got recently didn't come with one unfortunatly, so i haven't got anything i can use to try iWork. I'm back to the beginning again with wondering what the best suite is to use, but i think in the meantime i'm looking at MS Office from eBay or downloading NeoOffice 2 until i can see what iWork '07 will be like.

My OSX Boot disks had the iWork trial on. Second disk, its a hidden file - if you enable hidden file viewing you will see the pkg for it.

Simple. Then you can give it a fair try.

[MagSafe]

hmm, how do i view hidden files and folders? can't seem to find the option

[Fahrenheit]

Try Cocktail.

[MagSafe]

bah, to much hascel.

[Fahrenheit]

Literally just download Cocktail, and click the option "show hidden files" and then when you put the cd in, you will see the icon "iWork.pkg" in faded colours.

Simple.

[MagSafe]

ah ok, thanks for that, installing the trial now

[MagSafe]

hmm, i'm liking it

its been able to open all my word files fine so far, with exception to the paragraph borders in one (don't suppose anyone knows how i can fix this?), but apart from that i am really impressed, i must admit i was shocked at the lack of menu's but the screenshots of Office 2007 that i've seen are practically the same anyway.

I can see me using this as an office suite actually, especially with the spreadsheet functionality in Pages, got the working in seconds, its really good. I only had a chance to have a brief look at Keynote 3 but it looks outstanding, so many different features and nice looking templates compared to Powerpoint.

I might have to get this actually , along with a 101 tutorial book

Thanks again to everyone for the advice,

Steven.

[MagSafe]

Have just shelled out on a new car so i settled for NeoOffice 2 in the end

Seems really good for freeware, will probably just keep using it until I find something wrong with it, no point in paying for something when I don't need it