[Kraetos]

ATI Radeon HD 3870 graphics card for Mac and PC debuts

Well, this is cool. ATi is releasing the Radeon HD 3780 for both Mac and PC. Cool part is, its the same card! Even cooler, it is supposed to be faster than the 8800 GT, and even cooler than that, is it only costs $220!

I hope this sets a precedent. It would be pretty cool if we got to a point where any old GPU worked in a PC or a Mac Pro. Now if there was just a mid-priced tower, Mac gaming could really take off.

[dmegatool]

Is this compatible with old Mac Pro or it'S the same thing as the 8800GT ? I would like to change my card but the options are a little bit limited...

[Kraetos]

Originally Posted by dmegatool Is this compatible with old Mac Pro or it'S the same thing as the 8800GT ? I would like to change my card but the options are a little bit limited...

The 8800GT works with all Mac Pros. I would imagine that this one does too.

[rampancy]

Apparently, if Bare Feats can be believed, while this trails the almighty 8800 GT in Windows 3D games, on Mac 3D games it holds its own not too shabbily - and it substantially beats it consistently on pro apps using Core Image like Motion. And on top of that it supports CrossFire in Boot Camp.

And yes, it is compatible with all Mac Pros.

[Yonzie]

OMFG YES! Thank you DAAMIT!

[Moogs]

BTO with Nehalemz FTW!!!¡¡¡

[alcimedes]

Hmm, I've got the 2600XT in my MacPro now, and have been thinking of upgrading it for a while, I just couldn't bring myself to do it. However, if they've got a card that works on both the Mac and PC side of things at the same time, that would be pretty slick.

So this Crossfire thing is just SLI under a different name?

[Kraetos]

Originally Posted by alcimedes Hmm, I've got the 2600XT in my MacPro now, and have been thinking of upgrading it for a while, I just couldn't bring myself to do it. However, if they've got a card that works on both the Mac and PC side of things at the same time, that would be pretty slick.

I mean, any Mac Pro GPU will work in both Mac and Windows on the same Mac. But this GPU is special because you could slap it in any ol' PC and it will work. If this happens to more GPUs it would mean lower prices and better selection for Mac GPUs in general.

Now we just need a cheaper tower...

Originally Posted by alcimedes So this Crossfire thing is just SLI under a different name?

Crossfire is ATi's implementation of parallel graphics processing, so, yes.

[Luca]

It's still a fair bit more expensive than most Windows-only 3870s, which is too bad, but it's not horrible. You can get a 3870 from NewEgg for $160 or so. At least it's not as bad as when ATI released the Mac + PC edition of the Radeon 9600 at over double the cost of a standard 9600.

Given that ATI's drivers for OS X don't suck, and that the 3870 is pretty much on par with the 8800GT, I'd say this is a great option for people. Stick with the cheapest graphics card when you build a Mac Pro and get this one instead.

By the way, my PC has a Radeon 3850, which is only a little below the 3870 in performance, and it can run Call Of Duty 4 at 1680x1050 with all settings maxed out pretty well. I drop the settings down a little and turn off antialiasing for multiplayer to avoid any stutters, but it's a great card. Good for gaming, good for pro apps.

[Xaqtly]

So then I guess my question would be, is the ATi card the only one that is cross platform? And by that I mean if you go to Newegg and search for Radeon HD 3870, you will come up with two pages of that card made by other manufacturers like MSI, HSI and Diamond. Same on Amazon.

I'm assuming the reason the ATi card is cross platform is because it's based on EFI? Or supports both at least? Are the other cards the same, or do they not work with Macs?

[Yonzie]

"Normal" cards don't work on Macs. It's a EFI vs. BIOS issue, yes (I guess they're only made to understand BIOS)

xlr8yourmac review
Barefeats - PC Gaming vs. 8800
Barefeats - Mac Gaming vs. 8800
Barefeats - Core Image savior

OWC preorder page (because they gave me great customer service when my RAM got lost in the mail)

[Eugene]

Just in time for the Radeon HD4870 to come out...heh.

[dmegatool]

Originally Posted by Kraetos The 8800GT works with all Mac Pros. I would imagine that this one does too.

Hum... I've read a lot of comments about the compatibilty of the cards when it came out. It's about PCIe version. The old Mac Pro is 1.0 and the card is 2.0.

I've seen things like this (from the apple store comments)

I purchased this, thinking that it would be compatible with a MacPro, an original 1st gen one, that's not exactly long in the tooth and not the cheapest either. Found out, from talking to support, who had to then ask someone else, that in fact it's not compatible with 1st Gen MacPros. I was also told that the first gen macpro is not PCIE2? Which I find quite alarming, as I was sure it was when purchased. If this is indeed the case, that the 1st Gen MacPro's have gone out of date alarmingly fast and it appears as though there is no further upgrade path graphically.

[dmegatool]

Just found out what's the deal with the 8800GT. They just made it compatible with old Mac Pro.

Explanation here on MacRumors
Link to the Apple page.

To be noted : The little note just after the description...

Note to owners of Mac Pro (early 2008): Please select the NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT (early 2008) Upgrade Kit for Mac Pro.

As this one is called "NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT (1st Generation) Graphics Upgrade Kit for Mac Pro"
Graphics

EDIT: I was thinking upgrading my video card soon as my X1900 is dying slowly. What do you guys would do, 8800GT or HD3870 ?

[Eugene]

Originally Posted by dmegatool EDIT: I was thinking upgrading my video card soon as my X1900 is dying slowly. What do you guys would do, 8800GT or HD3870 ?

- 8800GT is a better card for gaming, especially under Windows.
- UVD (ATI) is generally regarded as better than PureVideo (NV) as far as video playback is concerned.

[PB PM]

Originally Posted by dmegatool Hum... I've read a lot of comments about the compatibilty of the cards when it came out. It's about PCIe version. The old Mac Pro is 1.0 and the card is 2.0. I've seen things like this (from the apple store comments)

Doesn't matter, 2.0 cards are backwards compatible with 1.0. Most 2.0 cards run a x8 speed which is equal to a x16 speed PCIe 1.0 slot.

[Eugene]

Originally Posted by PB PM Doesn't matter, 2.0 cards are backwards compatible with 1.0. Most 2.0 cards run a x8 speed which is equal to a x16 speed PCIe 1.0 slot.

PCIe 2.0 x8 is the same as PCIe 1.0/1.1 x8. 4 GBps. Not much has changed except the available bandwidth, up to x32...or various divisions of that.

[PB PM]

Are you sure? I've read in a few places that a x8 PCIe 2.0 is as fast as a x16 1.0/1.1. Maybe it was more than most cards don't take full advantage of speeds faster than x8.

[Luca]

Originally Posted by dmegatool I was thinking upgrading my video card soon as my X1900 is dying slowly. What do you guys would do, 8800GT or HD3870 ?

Whichever one is cheaper.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by Eugene PCIe 2.0 x8 is the same as PCIe 1.0/1.1 x8. 4 GBps. Not much has changed except the available bandwidth, up to x32...or various divisions of that.

I believe PB PM is correct. PCIe 2.0 doubles per-lane bandwidth. E.g., a PCIe 1.1 x1 lane is 250 MByte/sec, but a PCIe 2.0 x1 lane is 500 MByte/sec. x32 already exists with PCIe 1.1; it's not new to 2.0.

[Eugene]

Originally Posted by chucker I believe PB PM is correct. PCIe 2.0 doubles per-lane bandwidth. E.g., a PCIe 1.1 x1 lane is 250 MByte/sec, but a PCIe 2.0 x1 lane is 500 MByte/sec. x32 already exists with PCIe 1.1; it's not new to 2.0.

Yeah I just looked it up again...Silly of them to use the same nomenclature to mean different bandwidths.

[dmegatool]

So why the 8800GT wasn't compatible ? It is a problem with EFI64 and EFI32 ? ... curious to know why.

[ShadowOfGed]

Originally Posted by dmegatool So why the 8800GT wasn't compatible ? It is a problem with EFI64 and EFI32 ? ... curious to know why.

It was a firmware compatibility problem, until nVidia updated it to work on either platform. I don't know the exact nature of the issue, but it's now resolved and their cards work in both 1st- and 2nd-generation Mac Pros. And rest assured they certainly didn't change the silicon to fix the issue, which is why I'm confident it was firmware-related.

[Eugene]

The Radeon HD4850 is out for PCs and can be found for ~$170 after rebate. It has more than double the stream processors of the HD3870 and even bests the $250-300 GeForce 9800 GTX in most benchmarks.

Supposedly the 9800 GTX gets dropped down to $200 soon too, though we'll still be paying $280 for 8800 GTs on the Mac side for some time I think...

Makes you wonder who's going to pay $450/$650 for the GTX 260 and GTX 280....

[dmegatool]

Originally Posted by Eugene The Radeon HD4850 is out for PCs and can be found for ~$170 after rebate.

Are we supposed to get that card on the Mac side soon ? Would be great to stop selling a X1900 at 400$ (what I paid more than 2 years ago)

[Eugene]

Originally Posted by dmegatool Are we supposed to get that card on the Mac side soon ? Would be great to stop selling a X1900 at 400$ (what I paid more than 2 years ago)

I doubt it...unless Apple adds it as an option to the Mac Pro and removes the 8800GT option altogether.

[PB PM]

Originally Posted by dmegatool Are we supposed to get that card on the Mac side soon ? Would be great to stop selling a X1900 at 400$ (what I paid more than 2 years ago)

Considering the 4850 was just released Friday, and not even shipping yet, I doubt it. Give Apple a year, once that 5850 comes out. If you want a good GPU, don't use a Mac, thats the lesson here.

[Eugene]

Originally Posted by PB PM Considering the 4850 was just released Friday, and not even shipping yet, I doubt it. Give Apple a year, once that 5850 comes out. If you want a good GPU, don't use a Mac, thats the lesson here.

It's actually been available at NewEgg from 8 manufacturers for nearly a week. Looks the be available in volume too.

[Kraetos]

Originally Posted by PB PM Considering the 4850 was just released Friday, and not even shipping yet, I doubt it. Give Apple a year, once that 5850 comes out. If you want a good cost effective GPU, don't use a Mac, thats the lesson here.

T,FTFY

[Luca]

Then again, you could argue that if you're turned off by spending twice as much for the same stuff PC users get, why are you using a Mac in the first place?

Mac users seem to have accepted the Mac Tax as a way of life. It does cost money to create special Mac-compatible versions of these video cards, and they aren't going to sell a ton of them because the market is so tiny. So it's not surprising that the Mac version would cost 50-100% more than an otherwise identical Windows-only version. What I really don't like is how they give the Mac treatment to cards much too late. If the Mac versions actually require different hardware, then why aren't they developed concurrently with the Windows versions and released at similar times? And if they don't require different hardware, then I can understand why they're using old cards (just firmware flash the unsold stock and sell them for double what you'd get selling them as Windows-only), but if that's the case someone could probably just figure out how to do the firmware flash on their own and avoid having to pay all that extra money.