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"Will this little white box... bring down Bill Gates?" Mac Mini: THE REACTION


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"Will this little white box... bring down Bill Gates?" Mac Mini: THE REACTION
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SonOfSylvanus
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2005-01-12, 11:52

This thread is meant for people to report and criticise media reaction to, and industry discussion of, the Mac mini and the 'new direction' that this product is taking Apple.

Looking over someone's shoulder on the bus today, I saw this headline in the London Standard Lite—a new free version of the Evening Standard newspaper that is highly circulated, particularly throughout London's public transport network

Quote:
Will this little white box replace your desktop PC... and bring down Bill Gates?

Standard Lite, Wednesday, 12 January 2005
This gave me the idea to post this thread. What is the media and industry reaction in your part of the world? Is there one? What would you want it to be? Will Apple fall flat on its face? Are the Mac mini and iPod shuffle sure-fire successes?

Quote:
"One dissenting opinion came from Brian Gammage, vice-president of research at analysts Gartner.

Since the days when Apple ruled the personal computing world its market share has been on a long, slow decline," he said.

"Every few years it does something to give its market share a kick then it starts to go back down again," said Mr Gammage.

BBC News technology feature, Wednesday, 12 January 2005, 13:53 GMT

bouncy bouncy

Last edited by SonOfSylvanus : 2005-01-12 at 12:18.
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meowza
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2005-01-12, 12:06

Here in Stockholm, Sweden not a word was mentioned in any of the papers about anything Apple related. Nothing. Not even a picture.

Maybe the press is shunning them till they give us an iTMS.
  quote
MCQ
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2005-01-12, 12:17

Anyone want to segment these 869 articles up geographically?

http://news.google.com/?hl=en&ncl=ht...17%3Fsource%3D
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scratt
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2005-01-12, 12:19

I have a theory that this is the first step, not necesarily one which is 100% documented, or confirmed... but the first step which could lead us to a 'set-top-box'.

This may be movie's online... It may also be a game system as well...

We are certainly not far from having a home entertainment system along the lines of the 'set-top-box' which many manufacturers would like to be the Sony Walkman of home entertainment...

I think Bill and his cronies have had their day in any case.. But it is still wide open for how this thing will pan out. One thing is for sure M$ will not be the top dog for ever and certainly are more of a monopoly which has not been replaced rather than a market leader anymore. (IMHO)

In Thailand there is a strong interest in things Apple. In fact our unnoficial Apple stores are better then most UK Apple centers I have seen, including the first official one..

Our English language Newspaper the Nation will certanly carry coverage of all this new Apple stuff at the weekend...

There is also pretty damn good Mac support from most of the Internet providers and even custom Thai patches for software such as Photoshop, Illustrator etc..

I am both hopefull and sad for what is going to happen to Apple in the next few years. It's a strange mixed emotion. I think we are going to lose the innovation in favor of market share and dilution due to diversification. Again, IMHO.

'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
Extreme Sports Cafe | ESC's blog | scratt's blog | @thescratt
  quote
SonOfSylvanus
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2005-01-12, 12:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by MCQ
Anyone want to segment these 869 articles up geographically?

http://news.google.com/?hl=en&ncl=ht...17%3Fsource%3D


But I couldn't possibly read all of those. So, what's the gist of it?

( OMG, that is exactly how I approach my degree: "I can't be bothered to read that, what's the gist of it?" I.am.so.screwed. Heh heh.)

bouncy bouncy
  quote
psmith2.0
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Join Date: May 2004
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2005-01-12, 12:26

Well, nothing here (no surprise). Probably gonna take at least a month or so, when real people can get them in their hands and proper reviews and assessments can be made. Then, starting in about February or March, I can imagine all the usual suspects (Mossberg, et al) having a take on it.

The non Mac-centric press...that'll be interesting. IMO, Jobs gave everyone what they've been bitching about for years now. If they balk and nitpick it to death, then you just have to come to the conclusion that some people just aren't going to like Macs or Apple - and give them a fair shake - no matter what.

I hope Apple backs this up properly, and gives it a true, fighting chance.

Otherwise, what's the point?

I was discouraged to see yet ANOTHER silly-ass "dancing silhouette" commercial AGAIN, yesterday. Won't they ever stop?!? We get it already, guys...when you put on an iPod, you have the urge to dance in front of bright colors to some obscure pop or hip-hop song. Enough! That stopped being novel and cool about, oh, eight months ago. It's a bit tired and reeks of "auto pilot" at this point ("We'll select a new song, rotoscope a few new kids, maybe a new color or two...commercial in a box!").



THIS thing (Mac mini) is what needs to be featured in a new commercial/campaign from Apple, if they intend to have it not be another Cube situation (disappear after a year or so) and everyone going "ehhh...so?".

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2005-01-12 at 12:32.
  quote
SonOfSylvanus
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2005-01-12, 12:29

Quote:
Originally Posted by scratt
I am both hopefull and sad for what is going to happen to Apple in the next few years. It's a strange mixed emotion. I think we are going to lose the innovation in favor of market share and dilution due to diversification. Again, IMHO.
I read where you said that in another thread, and I share your trepidation, but I can't even hazard a guess at the outcome of all this. From what I understand (I only 'converted' in Autumn 2003), the Mac mini is reminiscent of the original iMac. Did Apple lose innovation in the period between then and now?

bouncy bouncy
  quote
psmith2.0
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2005-01-12, 12:34

Yeah, scratt...we discussed that a bit the other day, your concerns.

I just can't (don't?) see it that way. I think things like this are good, and point to good things, positive things.

I hope so.
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scratt
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2005-01-12, 12:45

Don't get me wrong guys... I really hope Apple continue to do all the great stuff they do.. I don't want to be seen as the whinging voice of doom... I do have optimism, but it is tempered with a concern Apple may end up becoming a box shitfter (God.. Why do I feel like I am swearing when I say that).

I am genuinely quite confused about the whole thing.

I look back over the last 18 months and just feel things are moving too fast. Perhaps I am getting old. I just don't know. I just think some mistakes are being made somewhere.

I do know that my Dual G5 is not perfect, neither is the software on it.
It's a wonderful machine and Logic and Motion and all the software is just a joy to use... but it still feels like something is not quite put together right.
The Garageband, Soundtrack, Logic, etc. etc. thing seems messy.
iWork is not a complete package..
It feels like we are buying works in progress more than we usually are with Apple stuff.

I don't mind... I just know I don't feel as confident even now that everything is being put together (software and hardware) quite as well as it has been.

At the same time the iPod shuffle really shocked me... I looked at it before I watched the Keynote and was like.. Oh God... They didn't put a screen on it.
It's not going to get that lower end market.. because people want screens. There is a percieved value in the useless tiny displays!!

Then I looked at the price and thought... God, Who does use the screen anyway?

So I could see both sides...

Then I listened to Steve and he (they - Apple) did exactly what I thought (and said they would do in a thread the other day) and justified it. I think it's cool.

I hope you are right Paul, and don't doubt that your optimism is by far the healthier emotion. I just feel a duty of care which forces me to point out my concerns..

'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
Extreme Sports Cafe | ESC's blog | scratt's blog | @thescratt
  quote
ishine
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2005-01-12, 13:11

my 1st post here...

Italy's "La Repubblica" newspaper
http://www.repubblica.it/2005/a/sezi.../imacmini.html

Today says:
'Apple amazes once more
499 dollars for a Mac'

Needless to say also 499 Euros as well.
I think I just convinced a switcher. A friend that's into Unix more than Windoze, and happy to take the plunge on a Mac product. (It is to be said that he just got a 12" ibook for he's wife, so he's quite sensible to Applemania.
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SledgeHammer
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2005-01-12, 13:21

Quote:
Originally Posted by scratt
(God.. Why do I feel like I am swearing when I say that).
Because you are: "shitfter"

  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2005-01-12, 13:26

Well, we're alike in the sense of, while I'm optimistic overall, I'm also realizing it is Apple we're talking about, and there's a very real chance that the only push this Mac mini will get will be some vague, understated full-page ad in Newsweek...and that's it.

I'd love to see their commercials (and marketing in general) be just 1/4 as ballsy, humorous and aggressive as Jobs seems to be on stage at times. But they never are. He takes good-natured swipes at Microsoft, clunky interfaces and design, etc. and we all chuckle and cheer because it's dead-on.

But that's during a closed, two-hour keynote to the already-faithful. Big deal...WE already know. When it comes to conveying those same things and showing that same sort of good-natured ribbing and aggressive "we make a better solution...period" stance to the masses, they always, always seem to opt for the cute or vague approach instead.



I'm optimistic, based on the product itself. Sure, who wouldn't be? It's awesome! But I'm also a bit pessimistic only because I worry the company that makes the awesome product to probably not push it worth a damn. That just bothers me some, that's all. Nothing new, really.



And I've never wanted to be proven wrong as much as I do right now...believe me! I hope they come out with both barrels blazing in 2005. They really should. They've tried the laidback approach for several years, right?
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Satchmo
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2005-01-12, 13:38

This Mac Mini could very well be a barometer of how the general public views Apple.

It's one thing to jump onto the iPod bandwagon (not much competition to choose from and no monopoly to start), but it's another thing to switch a new operating system. Especially when you're coming from one that is used by 98% of the world. But Steve practically spoke to PC users at his keynote saying there's no excuses now not to switch.

So is it really always been about price? Or as you say Pscates, some people just don't like Macs. One could say that if PC users don't switch now, they never will.
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2005-01-12, 13:56

Well that's always a possibility. And it's real, and I don't fault people for their true, heartfelt and thought-out choices. If they don't want to use a Mac, that's fine.

But I'd like those decisions made on facts and some sense of reality and devoid of decade-old boneheaded myths and the dreaded Brother-In-Law Syndrome*, that's all.

That's where Apple properly pushing their stuff a bit more comes in.



* A serious condition in which some dipshit, know-it-all brother-in-law (or neighbor) spouts enough acronyms and buzzwords to make everyone around him assume he "knows his computers", meanwhile the sonofabitch hasn't said one correct thing regarding Apple or their products in at least 11 years. Also known as the Anti-Switcher, and is, singlehandedly, personally responsible for no fewer than 85 people in his immediate sphere not giving the Mac platform an honest shot. He believes there's more nobility in constantly fucking around with your computer than actually getting anything fun done, and has no problem spreading his disease.
  quote
thequicksilver
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2005-01-12, 14:06

I'm in England, and it's been very well received over here.

First of all, it had a small section in my local newspaper, which is practically unheard of for a computer item. Secondly, it had a small five minute section on a late night radio show on BBC Radio Five Live, and indeed formed the entirety of their little technology talk. I imagine the Guardian (slightly left of centre Mac friendly national daily) will have had a fair bit of commentary about it too - I normally buy it but didn't get round to it today.

I see that on the other side of the pond, a certain John C Dvorak has had a few words to say about it. Prepare to be stunned:

Quote:
Originally Posted by John C Dvorak
The machine in every other sense is close to perfect. It has the right array of inputs and outputs, built-in networking and sound along with a versatile video output that should work with almost any monitor you already own.

Once this unit gets into the field and passes the tests of the real world, I'll have no trouble recommending it as a machine of choice, especially to new users. And I haven't done that with an Apple product for years.
See for yourself…

I typed this message on a white MacBook.
  quote
psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
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2005-01-12, 14:24

Apparently the world is ending in a matter of days.

  quote
Wraven
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
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2005-01-12, 14:29

pscates2.0,
I had a SEVERE case of BILS (i.e. I WAS that Brother-In-Law) before I got my iPod mini. I have now done a 180 and am trying to undo the damage to Apple I have done in the past. I am currently working on switching (myself), my wife, my father-in-law (whom I just got using and loving iTunes), and my sister-in-law, and my brother.

So blame me, bitches. (j/k)

That being said (and back on topic) it will take many of "me" to see the light and try out the Mac before Apple sees any real reclamation of that all-important market share percentage.

Cheers,
Wraven

Last edited by Wraven : 2005-01-12 at 14:50.
  quote
johnq
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2005-01-12, 14:45

Wait, if Dvorak likes it...

I must be wrong then!

I guess the Mac mini actually SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????

  quote
torifile
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2005-01-12, 14:53

Well, my IT guy just asked me about the mini. He said "have you seen that new mac yet?" He was practically raving over it.

This is the same guy who, not two months ago, was parroting the dead-iPod-battery-in-18-months thing and bad mouthing Macs in general. Now THAT'S cool.
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BuonRotto
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2005-01-12, 15:21

RE: Dvorak: Oh, God, we're doomed!

Heh. I always gauge the likely success of these things not by the amount of positive press, but by the amount of negative press. Usually, if Apple is off the mark, the negative commentaries come down like an avalanche, and some single fault is made into a mantra. Too expensive, too weak, too late, not enough xyz, etc. If it's on the mark, it can take time to catch on (a la iPod and the iMac), but the lack of negative opinions at the outset means that there isn't an obvious flaw. While you get the usual peanut gallery of cheerleaders and detractors from the start, more open-minded parties take more time to digest these things.

That's why I'm hopeful for not just the Mac mini but the iMac too. I've never seen such glowing reviews of a computer before by people who don't fall squarely into a particular camp.
  quote
Jay
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2005-01-12, 15:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by torifile
Well, my IT guy just asked me about the mini. He said "have you seen that new mac yet?" He was practically raving over it.

This is the same guy who, not two months ago, was parroting the dead-iPod-battery-in-18-months thing and bad mouthing Macs in general. Now THAT'S cool.
I have seen that a lot in school over the last 24 hours. Also PC nuts in general seem to accept it judging by the reaction at places like anandtech.com, I was amazed some were actually defending Apple.

As far as the market share thing, I would like to see a 50/50 split between M$ and Apple. It will force both to innovate and keep up with advancing tech. Then the platforms will have equal access to new hardware(GPUs etc.) and software from 3rd parties.
  quote
revolver
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2005-01-12, 15:31

Scratt

I agree that OSX is not a finished product. I know this is heresay, but my tricked-out 1.5Ghz Apple OS X powerbook chrashes waaay more than my XP homemade box. (Yes I repair permissions regularly and have an automated UNIX maintenance/checkup program going)

I write this 5 minutes after suffering a crash in Safari, followed by a crash in mail that wiped out a huge email necessating a power-off. I routinely suffer crashes in illustrator when I throw the slightest monkey wrench at it.

I think PC users will come to love iLife (as I have) but it is true- Os X is not a 100% mature product, and is not, as Apple marketing will have you believe- crash-proof. I think however that it has "arrived" enough to go forth with this "mini" experiment.
  quote
InactionMan
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2005-01-12, 15:48

This guy from the Globe and Mail think it's priced WAY too high. He makes some really stupid points, including the classic "I could buy a way more powerful Dell for a buck fifty that would make Apple fans weep!"

http://www.globetechnology.com/servl...ry/Technology/

Last edited by InactionMan : 2005-01-12 at 15:49. Reason: forgot linkage!
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sCreeD
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2005-01-12, 15:53

Rocket,
boy I hate to be the one, but somebody eventually will. Something must be wrong with your system. I've used OS X on a plethora of different hardware, including a Powerbook, and I just haven't seen crashes to the degree you describe.

Kernel Panic has only visited me three times since 10.1. And Safari only regularly bombs on the odd site or two.

I do agree that OS X's maturity is an issue with the UI, because it keeps changing from revision to revision and different iApps seem to play by their own rules. However stability has been one of OS X's great big strengths from my experience.

Screed
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torifile
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2005-01-12, 15:53

Quote:
Originally Posted by revolver
Scratt

I agree that OSX is not a finished product. I know this is heresay, but my tricked-out 1.5Ghz Apple OS X powerbook chrashes waaay more than my XP homemade box. (Yes I repair permissions regularly and have an automated UNIX maintenance/checkup program going)

I write this 5 minutes after suffering a crash in Safari, followed by a crash in mail that wiped out a huge email necessating a power-off. I routinely suffer crashes in illustrator when I throw the slightest monkey wrench at it.

I think PC users will come to love iLife (as I have) but it is true- Os X is not a 100% mature product, and is not, as Apple marketing will have you believe- crash-proof. I think however that it has "arrived" enough to go forth with this "mini" experiment.
Your experiences are not common at all. Do you have any third party RAM in your computer? The software of OS X is pretty darn crash proof. However, no OS can overcome bad hardware. I'd get that checked out because it shouldn't be happening.
  quote
Brad
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2005-01-12, 16:03

Wow, I'm led to believe that there's something else wrong with your Mac, revolver. I can't think of any time Mail has crashed on me and I've been using it since March 2001. If it did, it must have been a long time ago.

edit: that cursed torifile beat me again! Anyhow, please refer to the Genius Bar forum if you want to pursue some sort of investigation of your Mac's hardware and software.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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revolver
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Join Date: Jul 2004
 
2005-01-12, 16:23

Thanks for the technial help in a thread dedicated to the downfall of Bill Gates! Well, I do have 3rd party RAM, but is from Crucial (1GB)

Anyways, all I'm saying is there is still some tweaking to be done- but all in all Apple presents a compelling product- the time to strike is now, and as an aside I think PC users do not really appreciate iLife.

I for one thought I could get iApp "like" programs with the PC, but the simplicity of use and continuity of user interface on the Apple makes me use these programs much more so than their PC equivalents. So in effect I had a bunch of powerful PC programs I never used because I dont have time to learn how to use them.

Apple has developed iLife to be the "killer app(s)" that sell machines and I think is where Apple could make some real inroads to Microsoft.
  quote
Brad
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2005-01-12, 16:38

Quote:
Originally Posted by revolver
Well, I do have 3rd party RAM, but is from Crucial (1GB)
Just one last comment for the record, even Crucial occasionally sells bad sticks.
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thegelding
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2005-01-12, 16:52

yep...i had to send back a ram module from crucial about 4 or 5 months after i got it...they were very nice and replaced it quickly...haven't had any trouble with the replacement yet (2 yrs running)...

i like the lifetime replacement policy

g

crazy is not a rare human condition

everything is food if you chew hard enough
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murbot
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2005-01-12, 16:52

Bill Palmer chimes in on the Mini Mac or whatever the hell they call it.

Apple can take its idiot box and stick it where the sun don't shine
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