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The truth is stranger than scripture


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The truth is stranger than scripture
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SteveC
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Boston
 
2009-04-03, 09:52

The truth is stranger than scripture.

Quote:
Friday April 03, 2009
OKLAHOMA CITY -- A bill in the Oklahoma Legislature would allow pregnant women to use deadly force in order to save the lives of their babies.

The bill stems from a Michigan case where a woman who was carrying quadruplets stabbed and killed her boyfriend after he hit her in the stomach. The woman lost the babies and was convicted of manslaughter.

Oklahoma lawmakers said they want to make sure that a woman can legally protect her unborn child.

"Unfortunately, we feel we need legislation like this," said Rep. Mike Thompson. "What we want to make sure is that a woman feels safe and secure defending herself and her unborn child against any attacker."

http://www.koco.com/cnn-news/19082604/detail.html
--

Think about this for a second. All a pregnant woman has to do is say she was being attacked, and she can kill anybody she wants, at least in the state of Oklahoma.

In the case this law was based on, the woman killed her assailant. If she hadn't killed him, he could have been held for assault. The manslaughter charge should be brought to investigate what occurred; the manslaughter conviction should be based on the circumstances of the case. The purpose of courts is to apply justice, not apply summary justice, which is what this law does.

I suppose a law like this was inevitable. We have laws that make people automatically guilty, so it is only fitting to have the opposite extreme, where they are automatically innocent. We have copied yet another page from Draconian law and stepped further into the abyss.

There is a LOT of double-think and newspeak in the full article, but I especially like Rep. Thompson's comment: 'we want to make sure a woman feels safe and secure defending herself and her unborn child against an attacker.' LOL There is nothing like that 'safe and secure' feeling while being attacked!

Imagine a world where the government does not try to prevent crime between citizens, but instead encourages lethal force! Well, imagine no more. It's here.

And what about protecting the children after they are born? Can a Soccer Mom kill anybody, too? Misogynists beware. The woman can strike back. Woman really have achieved full equality with men in America.

Of course, the Oklahoma legislature is composed primarily of men. I guess kissing babies, shaking hands and living off taxing the young 'uns wasn't enough, they want to get credit for saving their lives, too. How long until they issue a medal to a mother who killed the father?

It makes Cain and Abel seem quaint, when you could have Eve kill Adam instead. The truth is stranger than scripture.
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alcimedes
I shot the sherrif.
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2009-04-03, 10:06

Would you think a woman was justified in stabbing a man who just punched a one week old baby? How about one that had a medical condition that meant hitting the baby could likely lead to the child's death?

Basically they're saying that lethal force for the defense of an unborn child should be held to the same standard as lethal force in defense of any other person. You'd still need to prove it in court, but they're saying it should be a legal option for your defense.

In many states because of how laws are written, you don't have any right to defend a fetus because it's not a person in the eyes of the law, it's a thing.

Google is your frenemy.
Caveat Emptor - Latin for tough titty
I tend to interpret things in the way that's most hilarious to me
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory.
 
2009-04-03, 10:11

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveC View Post
It makes Cain and Abel seem quaint, when you could have Eve kill Adam instead. The truth is stranger than scripture.
I'm missing the parallel here. Could you at least quote the verse in Genesis where Adam attacks Eve?
  quote
Luca
ಠ_ರೃ
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
 
2009-04-03, 10:17

I'm pro-choice but I think this is a good law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveC
All a pregnant woman has to do is say she was being attacked, and she can kill anybody she wants, at least in the state of Oklahoma.
And in pretty much every state in the country, all anybody has to do is say they were being attacked and were afraid for their life, and they can kill anyone they want. Oh, except that's not how self-defense laws work. Obviously there's some variation between states (some have a duty to retreat, some are different if you're attacked at home vs. somewhere else, etc.), but if you are actually in danger of being killed, self-defense is fine.
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curiousuburb
Antimatter Man
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: that interweb thing
 
2009-04-03, 11:13

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
I'm missing the parallel here. Could you at least quote the verse in Genesis where Adam attacks Eve?
Didn't Lilith kill Eve when she couldn't win Adam back?

As for the legal argument for Eve to dodge a Murder charge...

[1] Eve kills Adam
[2] Since Eve = Adam's Rib
[3] Adam's Rib kills Adam
[4] Suicide ≠ Murder
[5] ???
[6] Profit!

All those who believe in telekinesis, raise my hand.

Last edited by curiousuburb : 2009-04-03 at 11:23.
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thegelding
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2009-04-03, 12:01

i assume that a pregnant pro-life woman will now go to a planned parenthood clinic and shoot the doctor and claim self defense...

but i am jaded i guess...

i'm all for women protecting themselves...i just see this law being abused within 10 minutes of if passing


i'm confused by the Michigan case...a woman is assaulted and protects herself...i would guess she was not convicted?? maybe she had a bad lawyer of she had prior stabbings in her history?

g

crazy is not a rare human condition

everything is food if you chew hard enough
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Argento
I puked at work.
Because I'm a pussy.
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2009-04-03, 12:07

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegelding View Post
she had prior stabbings in her history?
Not sure why but I giggled at this.
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cosus
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2009-04-03, 12:39

There's protecting one's self and then there's using more force than necessary. Apparently a jury decided she used more force than necessary, which I assume would have mothers.

Retired 8 years ahead of schedule.
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alcimedes
I shot the sherrif.
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2009-04-03, 12:42

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegelding View Post
i assume that a pregnant pro-life woman will now go to a planned parenthood clinic and shoot the doctor and claim self defense...
How would that be self defense?

I really don't see what the issue is here, other than it makes pro choice people uncomfortable to give legal rights to a fetus, since it highlights the true nature of abortion so starkly. (ie. if your mom wants you your a child, if she doesn't you're a thing)

Google is your frenemy.
Caveat Emptor - Latin for tough titty
I tend to interpret things in the way that's most hilarious to me
  quote
Luca
ಠ_ರೃ
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
 
2009-04-03, 12:46

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegelding View Post
i assume that a pregnant pro-life woman will now go to a planned parenthood clinic and shoot the doctor and claim self defense...

but i am jaded i guess...

i'm all for women protecting themselves...i just see this law being abused within 10 minutes of if passing


i'm confused by the Michigan case...a woman is assaulted and protects herself...i would guess she was not convicted?? maybe she had a bad lawyer of she had prior stabbings in her history?

g
It's not really any different from any other self-defense law is the thing. I doubt it will even need to be used much.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory.
 
2009-04-03, 13:46

Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousuburb View Post
Didn't Lilith kill Eve when she couldn't win Adam back?
No. Not as far as my Bible reads.

I'm thinking this is just another copy/paste from Steve's blog, which is mostly paranoid bullshit.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory.
 
2009-04-03, 14:07

Now, I realize 'burb was making teh funnay and mixing in earlier mythos, but (and this will come as a surprise to most) I take the Bible very seriously.

I'm a big fan of moralistic tales, and when it comes to Greek, Roman, Biblical, Aesop, Grimm, Andersen, etc. etc., I love them all. So when a person like Steve blatantly lies and puts the fable of Adam and Eve (one of my favorites, to be honest) on the block, well, I take personal offense.

Sorry, but mythology is my thing. Don't fuck with the tales.

So it goes.
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