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Late '09 iMac
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2009-10-20, 17:47

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses View Post
If Apple is going to be pushing these big beautiful high resolution displays, making the iMacs VESA mount compatible (again) and advertising their HD worthiness, then they need to start providing some True 1080P HD content.... not offering a Blu-Ray OPTION is really just Apple playing politics here. And it's unfortunate because Apple doesn't offer a competitive alternative. iTune's 720P content does not come close to matching Blu-Ray.


Apple is being stubborn and protective here.
...or they know that everybody and their mom will buy these iMacs just as fast without Blu-ray, and then in the spring they'll add it to keep that momentum going.

But after years of that awful 20" display, it's really nice to see Apple put the display forefront. Even on their front page: "The ultimate all-in-one. Now with the ultimate display." Apple even talked about how the displays were IPS in that sexy Ive vid. I've never heard them actually tout that to consumers before, which is important, because too often consumers think that displays are displays and there's size and that's it.

And yes, with the low-end iMac now being 1080p, I'm sure we'll be seeing 1080p content in the near future, one way or another.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
Chinney
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ottawa, ON
 
2009-10-20, 19:08

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Yeah, I was expecting a price drop, with the dollar almost being par again.
Yes. That's why I said $100-200 CDN. That would be $100 off for approximate currency parity, and another $100 because the U.S. prices could/should themselves be that much lower. Pure cream for Apple, but given that I am not personally fond of the alternatives, I guess that I will pay it.

I still think though, that for the full experience - hardware and software quality, and the way they work together - that the value for the money is there. Some may disagree (Luca?), but ultimately I have been a happy Mac buyer over the years. Heck, they repaired my G5 past warranty - full logic board replacement - for free, without a grumble or argument.

When there's an eel in the lake that's as long as a snake that's a moray.
  quote
Chinney
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Join Date: May 2004
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2009-10-20, 19:19

Regarding the processors, I am thinking this is certainly the last gasp of the Core 2 Duo on the iMac. Will we not have another update in six months that will bring the whole line - except maybe the bottom basement iMac - up to i5/i7?

It was maybe a bit early to do that now (and Apple absolutely needed to release a desktop update now) but in six months it will be time. Hey, maybe I should start a new thread:

What to speculate about now? New iMacs! Mach 2

Just kidding, for now.

When there's an eel in the lake that's as long as a snake that's a moray.
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2009-10-20, 19:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinney View Post
Regarding the processors, I am thinking this is certainly the last gasp of the Core 2 Duo on the iMac. Will we not have another update in six months that will bring the whole line - except maybe the bottom basement iMac - up to i5/i7?
The thing is, I'm thinking the 27" i5/i7 iMac might be using desktop processors. I'm looking through the Wiki on Nehalem and the only parts that match those specs are, like, 95W Lynnfield desktop chips. And there's no way Apple could be using those in the iMac...could they?

(If they are, they're ripping people off on the BTO i7 upgrade, as usual. )

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
Matsu
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2009-10-20, 19:52

In the past I was the biggest AIO skeptic going, but since the introduction of the G5 iMac, they are becoming increasingly attractive machines. They've almost got it perfected now. The display port input is brilliant, I've been yapping about that for years... The iMac now doubles as a great display that can "head up" a future upgrade, a TV tuner, etc... It's not bigger than an average monitor anyway. If it turns out that the computer can run in the background while the display shows another machine's desktop, it goes from brilliant to genius! You might upgrade your "monitor" to a server for the whole household, back-up storage, burn discs in the background while you've docked your circa 2013 8-core Macbook Pro as the main machine?

Seriously now: A four core machine with abundant RAM and a 27" screen? What would it have cost just 1-2 years ago to get the equivalent performance and a 24-30" ACD in Mac Pro guise? $4000-5000.

Only two omissions:

1.) They need to put an ExpressCard slot in it. What happens when USB3 or FW1600, or some other connection standard comes out? Every machine, regardless of price, but especially a premium model, needs an I/O upgrade path this late in the life of existing standards...

2.) Bluray. You know it's coming. Those new 16:9 screens were spec'd especially for it. Something held it back, I suspect the option will be added soon...

One consideration:

The SD slot is interesting. I wonder if it conforms to the SDXC spec. I don't know of too many devices out there yet that do, but it's been on the books for a year or so and provides for terabytes of storage and 300MB/s speeds...

So, what to do?

If I were looking for a new desktop, I'd buy one. Either the entry level or the 27" model...

.........................................
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CitizenTony
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Dallas
 
2009-10-20, 22:25

How do you swap out the HDD in these? Through the memory access?

They're beautiful, that's for sure. I like how the glass is edge to edge and the chin is smaller. Blu-rays absence is unfortunate. I'd say I wouldn't buy one because of it, but I'm not in the market for one anyway. If I were I'd hold out, the thing was built for HD movies.
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Frank777
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2009-10-21, 00:09

Like Matsu says, Apple got it pretty much right, with a few quibbles.

I doubt it's SDXC, but here's hoping.

Similarly, I doubt the hard drive is any easier to change, but with 1TB drives that's less of a factor than it used to be (for now.)

I do think the smaller keyboard is a joke, and ExpressCard would have been nice (but this is Jobs we're talking about.)

The fact remains: Yesterday, a 3.06GHZ, 4GB RAM, 1TB HD iMac with a 24" screen would have cost CAN$2599.
Today, you can get those specs for CAN$1799., plus a larger screen. iMac FTW!
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DK-Lach
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Denmark
 
2009-10-21, 00:16

I'm really close to pull the trigger on the i7-model. That thing is sweet and almost "8-core" due to HyperThreading. Wow!

BUT
I want the BluRay. And before someone starts talking about Itusen moviedownloads, I just have three words: "Not in Denmark"

The only movies iTunes in Denmark and most of Europe is video-podcasts and trailers. So BluRay is a musthave for me!

Btw:
oes any of you know, if it still is possible to easy add more memory or is it all welded shut inside that pretty body?
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CitizenTony
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Dallas
 
2009-10-21, 00:21

Quote:
Originally Posted by DK-Lach View Post
I'm really close to pull the trigger on the i7-model. That thing is sweet and almost "8-core" due to HyperThreading. Wow!

BUT
I want the BluRay. And before someone starts talking about Itusen moviedownloads, I just have three words: "Not in Denmark"

The only movies iTunes in Denmark and most of Europe is video-podcasts and trailers. So BluRay is a musthave for me!

Btw:
oes any of you know, if it still is possible to easy add more memory or is it all welded shut inside that pretty body?
According to the manual, there is a door on the bottom between the speakers. I still can't figure out how you swap HDDs though. The back looks solid. Do you have to pull out the screen to get to it?
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2009-10-21, 00:39

Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenTony View Post
I still can't figure out how you swap HDDs though.
You probably...don't. The iMac hasn't had user-replaceable hard drives for years.
  quote
Mugge
Thunderbolt, fuck yeah!
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Denmark
 
2009-10-21, 00:52

I don't think you guys should put too much hopes into Bluray.

If Apple wanted it we could have had it last year, but as mentioned earlier it runs against their media strategy. It's more likely that Apple want's to see Bluray stone dead.
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2009-10-21, 01:06

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugge View Post
If Apple wanted it we could have had it last year
Apple was still shipping Combo drives in their computers this year. Apple's just never been an early adopter of this sort of thing - see CD-R. Doesn't mean it won't happen. Doesn't mean it will, but hey. That's Apple.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
zsummers
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New York?
 
2009-10-21, 01:25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca View Post
That's one damn expensive monitor.
Or one nicely priced machine and bonus monitor... depends on your usage pattern. It fits mine brilliantly, though I understand why it would be a waste for some.

One of my biggest reasons for not buying an iMac is the inability for it to double as a monitor when the day comes to put it out to pasture. Having owned an PowerPC iMac that fell behind the times, I still regret not being able to use it as a 20" display.

I may be selling my 23" display soon and picking up the 27". Very, very exciting.

Thinking out loud here: wouldn't an iMac that doubles as a display pair nicely with a tablet with DisplayPort out? There's got to be some fun to be had there, right?

"How could you falter / when you're the Rock of Gibralter? / I had to get off the boat so I could walk on water. / This ain't no tall order. / This is nothing to me. / Difficult takes a day. / Impossible takes a week."
  quote
CitizenTony
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Dallas
 
2009-10-21, 02:19

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman View Post
You probably...don't. The iMac hasn't had user-replaceable hard drives for years.
I didn't realize that. I would have figured changing the hard drive would be more important to the user than being able to easily add more RAM. Apple really baffles me sometimes.
  quote
Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2009-10-21, 02:30

Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenTony View Post
I didn't realize that. I would have figured changing the hard drive would be more important to the user than being able to easily add more RAM. Apple really baffles me sometimes.
It is a little odd that their laptops are more upgradeable than most of their desktops. And with that extra width (like 8cm on the 27" model!) I'm sure they could have had a user-accessible hard drive bay, on the underside, next to the RAM door.

But who knows what's going on inside the new iMacs? The video mentions how the extra width allows them to keep the GPU and CPU further apart, and I'm still not sure if the 27-incher is using honest-to-goodness desktop processors now.

It would have been nice (external drives kinda ruin the clean look) but it's not like it's a huge deal, to me. I think being able to upgrade the RAM is more important, since it's not like you can have external RAM.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
CitizenTony
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Dallas
 
2009-10-21, 03:18

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman View Post
It is a little odd that their laptops are more upgradeable than most of their desktops. And with that extra width (like 8cm on the 27" model!) I'm sure they could have had a user-accessible hard drive bay, on the underside, next to the RAM door.

But who knows what's going on inside the new iMacs? The video mentions how the extra width allows them to keep the GPU and CPU further apart, and I'm still not sure if the 27-incher is using honest-to-goodness desktop processors now.

It would have been nice (external drives kinda ruin the clean look) but it's not like it's a huge deal, to me. I think being able to upgrade the RAM is more important, since it's not like you can have external RAM.
I'm looking forward to the tear apart pics. They already have the new MacBook up, I'm sure it won't be long. It isn't a big deal at all. I never change either outside of the day it arrives. But I have had a hard disk go bad and had to replace it, while I haven't had RAM go bad since the 90's when I was screwing around with my 486. It seems better for the user to be able to easily replace the drive for that reason.

I was really just wondering how you got access to the internals at all. I thought on the outgoing model that you just popped off the black plastic back and went about your business. On these, the thing looks solid and I can't see a seam. I know the glass is just held in with magnets or something, so I guess that's how you gain access now. I'll just have to wait and see I guess. It's the thing I like most about the current Apple line-up. The inside is arguably more beautiful than the exterior.
  quote
joveblue
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Melbourne
 
2009-10-21, 03:48

Quote:
Originally Posted by zsummers View Post
Or one nicely priced machine and bonus monitor... depends on your usage pattern. It fits mine brilliantly, though I understand why it would be a waste for some.

One of my biggest reasons for not buying an iMac is the inability for it to double as a monitor when the day comes to put it out to pasture. Having owned an PowerPC iMac that fell behind the times, I still regret not being able to use it as a 20" display.
Good point. That's always been one of the problems with the All-in-one form: the screen lasts a lot longer than the computer, which is very wasteful if you just abandon it in a cupboard or dispose of it. Especially now that it's got a great LED backlit, high definition, IPS panel in it, you don't want to be throwing it out next time you want to upgrade. So it's great to know that now you can use it as just a monitor when the time comes. You can hook a new Mac Mini or whatever in and with the sleek profile and smaller chin you won't even mind having an obsolete computer hanging off the bottom of your screen!
  quote
Chinney
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ottawa, ON
 
2009-10-21, 07:25

Quote:
Originally Posted by joveblue View Post
Good point. That's always been one of the problems with the All-in-one form: the screen lasts a lot longer than the computer, which is very wasteful if you just abandon it in a cupboard or dispose of it. Especially now that it's got a great LED backlit, high definition, IPS panel in it, you don't want to be throwing it out next time you want to upgrade. So it's great to know that now you can use it as just a monitor when the time comes. You can hook a new Mac Mini or whatever in and with the sleek profile and smaller chin you won't even mind having an obsolete computer hanging off the bottom of your screen!
And I wonder if you could still use that obsolete computer for secondary use (server? storage?), even as you piped in another computer through the screen. Is that technically possible?

When there's an eel in the lake that's as long as a snake that's a moray.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2009-10-21, 07:39

The iMac still uses laptop RAM, right? I'm 99% sure it does, but I'd like to be 100%.

Reason is I'm upgrading the RAM in the little MBP to 4GB, and thought I'd take the 2 1GB sticks and put them in the iMac. At least for a bit. I won't blows it up, will I?

So it goes.
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Luca
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Location: Minnesota
 
2009-10-21, 08:11

Quote:
Originally Posted by 709 View Post
The iMac still uses laptop RAM, right? I'm 99% sure it does, but I'd like to be 100%.

Reason is I'm upgrading the RAM in the little MBP to 4GB, and thought I'd take the 2 1GB sticks and put them in the iMac. At least for a bit. I won't blows it up, will I?
It says it uses DDR3-1066 SO-DIMMs, so yes, it does use laptop RAM.
  quote
709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2009-10-21, 08:16

Awesome. Thanks.

That should give both machines a little boost until the 4GB sticks come down in price.
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bassplayinMacFiend
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Join Date: Jun 2004
 
2009-10-21, 09:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinney View Post
And I wonder if you could still use that obsolete computer for secondary use (server? storage?), even as you piped in another computer through the screen. Is that technically possible?
I don't see why not, unless Apple causes the internal computer to shut off when used simply as a display for energy conservation purposes. Of course, I could see people hacking OS X so they could keep folding in the background or run a server or something.
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psmith2.0
Mr. Vieira
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tennessee
 
2009-10-21, 10:08

You've come a long way, baby!

Something I like to do, for giggles, every now and then...compare the "what was" to the latest "what is". In this case, the original Bondi iMac to the entry-level ($1,199) model announced yesterday. I had to piece some of the older info together from MacTracker, Everymac.com so every little spec might not be exact/perfect, but I think I'm 99% there).

Anyway, check it out (provided for no other reason than general interest and a "wow!" smile):





Quite the progression! And a $100 price drop.

Last edited by psmith2.0 : 2009-10-21 at 13:54.
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Purgatory
 
2009-10-21, 10:15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
The SD slot is interesting. I wonder if it conforms to the SDXC spec.
It doesn't look like it.
  quote
Brad
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2009-10-21, 10:25

Nicely done, Paul. That's a great way of showing what a decade of progress looks like.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2009-10-21, 10:26

Forgive me if I missed this up the thread, but does the chipset do better with triple channel memory access over just having more RAM? I thought I read somewhere that DDR3 is fastest in triples rather than evens.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
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Luca
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2009-10-21, 10:34

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle2472 View Post
Forgive me if I missed this up the thread, but does the chipset do better with triple channel memory access over just having more RAM? I thought I read somewhere that DDR3 is fastest in triples rather than evens.
I think triple-channel is a function of the processor and motherboard and not the RAM type. DDR3 can operate in either dual-channel or triple-channel mode depending on the CPU and motherboard. Wikipedia says that only the i7 is capable of triple-channel memory, so it's possible that the i7 version of the iMac would be a little faster with three modules instead of two or four. The Core 2 and i5 versions, though, should use dual-channel.

Perhaps DDR3 is the only type of RAM capable of triple-channel, but I'm not sure. It doesn't really matter since every triple-channel capable motherboard uses DDR3. But there are a lot of dual-channel motherboards that use DDR3.
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709
¡Damned!
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2009-10-21, 11:16

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
Something I like to do, for giggles, every now and then...compare the "what was" to the latest "what is".




  quote
Matsu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2009-10-21, 11:18

This somewhat relates to an interesting dilemma across most of Apple's current line-up -- their connectivity is generally up-to-date, but 2010 will be a big year in peripheral connectivity and most of the current crop of machines have no upgrade path for USB3, FW S3200, eSATA. The later two probably don't matter much, USB 2.0 has been eating FW400/800's lunch in the consumer space, and eSATA is not really a consumer solution, nor is it for anything other than storage whereas the other two have storage as well as audio, video, and peripheral connectivity uses. FW S3200 is spec'd to use all the same connections as FW800, and devices should be backwards compatible, at the lower speed.

USB3 is due on new machines and devices starting in early 2010, exactly ten years after the introduction of USB2, and while USB2 seems fast enough for many things today, storage and data streaming requirements will only grow. Moving images off my D300 already takes longer than I'd like, and 600x UDMA cards are now on the market that fully saturate even FW800. My next camera won't have smaller files and at the rate files sizes are growing, we'll need 1200-1500X cards just to keep the same pace...

USB 3 is just in time. It offers very cheap, very fast connectivity in what will surely be a universal standard for consumers and the industry generally. Apple itself will likely be among the very first to adopt it sometime next year, but until then there's a problem for anyone who owns less than a Mac Pro or 17" Macbook Pro...

So back to the SD Card. SD doesn't look the choice of professional cameras or video, at least not until the XC spec arrives. Wouldn't it be more useful to provide an ExpressCard slot?

Of course if they are going to use SD cards, then let's have them on everything (in addition to Expresscard, or when it arrives, USB3) It could be a useful way to distribute software and share files. Plug in the card and it just works...

.........................................
  quote
NUcleic Acid
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
 
2009-10-21, 11:33

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca View Post
I think triple-channel is a function of the processor and motherboard and not the RAM type. DDR3 can operate in either dual-channel or triple-channel mode depending on the CPU and motherboard. Wikipedia says that only the i7 is capable of triple-channel memory, so it's possible that the i7 version of the iMac would be a little faster with three modules instead of two or four. The Core 2 and i5 versions, though, should use dual-channel.
.
Just from the specs on the chip both the i5 and the i7 are Lynnfeild chips rated at around TPD of 95W. The processor clock, cache size, and powerboost point it to it being the i5 750 and i7 860. And in this case they use the LGA 1156 and have dual-channel memory.
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