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I do think the visual language is a bit strange.
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Space Pirate
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
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I wonder who set it up?
The speech, again, since it got cut by the fold >> Quote:
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Sneaky Punk
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I’ll be honest this is the first time I’ve even looked at the speech. Not sure I get what all the big blow back is about. Are people upset that Biden talked about the danger of extremism, and people who are trying to undermine democracy? He clearly didn’t call all republicans evil or anti-democratic. Not exactly calling half of Americans evil or extremists, as was somewhat asserted earlier in this thread. Way to many comments being taken out of context to say something they are not. No wonder things get so heated.
I don’t really get off on all this praise great America stuff, had to pass that BS over (sorry, but not sorry), but over all it seems like he was a) talking to his base as all politicians do and B) addressing, from his point of view, the type of people who are trying to undermine democracy in the US to the detriment of the majority of Americans. Hardly as divisive as I was expecting. |
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meh
Join Date: May 2004
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giggity |
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Space Pirate
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
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My thoughts as well.
The drama was entirely manufactured. Is Biden our best President? No. Has he attacked the GOP? Not even. I will talk about how wrong January 6th was until the crack of doom. ... |
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Space Pirate
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
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David Frum at The Atlantic is suggesting that Biden's speech was designed to draw Trump out into the open, and that it was effective. That's an interesting take on the situation, and honestly, whether or not it was designed to provoke Trump, it's clear that's what happened and what was BOUND to happen if such a speech were made, which is what makes it such a believable, unprovable theory.
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Space Pirate
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
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Finally, I think that it is super important to recognize that a lot of people who defended Trump for as long as they could, were always better citizens than Trump; including a lot of the people who were swept up in his crazy January 6th raid.
By that, I mean that they were more ethical, more polite, more civic-minded, more measured, less bombastic. I have stood on the steps of the house of an old man I've known since I was 6 years old and I told him that he was a better person than Trump. I think I kind of astonished him when I listed all the ways he was better. It kind of shut down the debate we'd been having. Biden did not demean all Republicans, only those who have continued to push demonstrably false information; the minds Trump has hacked. His flesh and blood bot army. Biden: “For a long time, we’ve reassured ourselves that American democracy is guaranteed. But it is not. We have to defend it. Protect it. Stand up for it. Each and every one of us." “MAGA Republicans do not respect the Constitution. They do not believe in the rule of law. They do not recognize the will of the people, refuse to accept the results of a free election.” Republicans need to be part of the group protecting the Constitution, even if it means that our team doesn't win the next game. ... |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
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For decades, Christian conservatives and fiscal conservatives have been fighting to keep the U.S. and the world safe from war-mongering (and often war-profiteering) neo-conservatives, and Trump has finally ousted most of them from the party. And despite the fact that Democrats also viscerally hated these people for almost the entire length of the Iraq and Afghan wars, Trump has driven them so internally crazy that they are now welcoming and funding people like Cheney and Frum with open arms. |
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Oh wait, that didn’t happen at all. |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
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It's also true that Christians overwhelmingly supported Bush over Kerry. But as we've seen with Biden and Pelosi at the helm, the U.S. military-industrial complex had little difficulty transitioning from profiteering in Afghanistan to profiteering in Ukraine. |
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Space Pirate
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
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What strange cheese has been set before us?
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
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When it serves their purposes, Christians on the Right tend to develop selective amnesia about their overt endorsement of Republican politics. There’s opposition, and then there’s opposition. One has to ask if a group is routinely holding their nose to vote, maybe they actually like the smell?
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Sneaky Punk
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Some elements of the Christian right do tend to flip flops all over the place, and have a very short memory. This group latches onto anyone they believe could help them advance their agenda to force religious laws and rules onto the general public, nothing else matters at the end of the day. In their minds, the ends justify the means, regardless if they have to dismiss the very teachings they proclaim to follow to achieve that goal. In my experience it is a small, but very influential group, generally families of multi-generational leaders in higher positions of leadership, that are actively deceiving those who follow them. It's just sad to watch, and was the main reason I got out of the church altogether. I don't want this to turn into "us vs them" thing, because to me it's not, this is just my experience, but it sounds like I'm not the only one who has seen this behavior.
To the question is, how does that tie into the subject? A lot if we think about it, if leading elements are pointing in a direction with followers, they are likely to, well follow that lead. There is a lot of, do without questioning in politics, which only reinforces this. If the leaders say, vote for person x or y, a lot of members do so, without vetting the person being voted for. That carries on right to the top. People on the left do this as well, so don't think I'm pointing fingers one way and not the other. The fact that elections are popularity contests about the leaders, and not about the job at hand is just sad, given that most of the real work is done by bureaucrats behind the scenes. |
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Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
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Very perceptive. I do want an answer on this one. I had thought that while many right-wingers think the left-wing worldview is insane, and many left-wingers think the right-wing worldview is insane, there was at least common cause that the neo-con ideology was mostly stupid and evil. You cannot bomb and invade a country into democracy. Everyone on all sides knows this, and the misadventures in Iraq and Afghanistan were mostly about global chess moves that just happened to enrich a special group of people. Then Trump, to his credit, managed to go four years without starting any wars and drawing down forces in both the Middle East and Afghanistan. So Biden comes in and proceeds to "accidentally" leave a gargantuan amount of military equipment behind in Afghanistan. Much of which will have to be replaced at U.S. taxpayer expense. Then the war in Ukraine starts, and tens of billions start to flow to replace munitions being sent to Ukraine. While Putin is also a nutcase, it's starting to look like the West is doing plenty to prolong a war that is again, enriching a lot of special people. The one bright light was that the neo-cons were not going to be able to advance their agenda in the future, as they have been mostly exiled by Trumpists. And then, they just casually crossed the floor to the Democrats. I'm watching Liz Cheney being celebrated as a hero patriot by the left, and this week saw David Frum being casually name-dropped into a political thread, not by a conservative, as a purveyor of insightful analysis. Should we not be discussing why the neo-cons hate Trump? Does anyone think that the neo-cons care about his mean tweets and the border wall? Is the Democratic base really going to just grant these people, whom they have vilified for years, political sanctuary? |
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Rocket Surgeon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Canadark
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Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472 Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
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I do not recall people like Falwell, Robertson, etc. openly criticizing the war, or the DHS apparatus. Oh, that I would agree with. There's a problematically broad foreign policy consensus. |
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Which way is up?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
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Don't give two craps about any of this stuff, but as I was glancing through I caught this bit:
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- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :) - Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9) |
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