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iPod Classic days numbered?


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iPod Classic days numbered?
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Satchmo
can't read sarcasm.
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
 
2009-07-23, 19:26

With rumoured new iPod Nanos, a new iPod Touch's and SSD available in 256gb and 512gb sizes, is the iPod Classic days numbered? While the Nano has a smaller display, it's PPI is higher. Throw in a 128GB SSD, increase the width size a smidge, and the iPod Classic is no more.
The fly in the ointment is the cost of the 128 Gb SSD.

iPod Classic
2.5-inch (diagonal) color LCD with LED backlight @ 320-by-240-pixel resolution at 163 pixels per inch

Nano
2-inch (diagonal) liquid crystal display with blue-white LED backlight @ 320-by-240-pixel resolution at 204 pixels per inch
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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2009-07-23, 19:42

Erm...it'll probably be a while before 128GB of memory is feasible in an iPod nano or iPod touch. Like, maybe two years or so?

The iPod nano has doubled in capacity each year, as has the iPhone and iPod touch. If that pace continues, we'll see 32GB iPod nanos this year, 64GB iPod nanos next year, and 128GB iPod nanos in the fall of 2011.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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Wyatt
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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2009-07-23, 19:52

As we've discussed on here before (I'll find the links later), the iPod touch does not use SSDs. It uses the same flash memory as a flash drive, which is far from being as high quality or expensive as the memory that goes into an SSD.

Not only that, but a 128 GB SSD would be larger than an entire iPod touch.

[edit] Here's one such discussion: http://forums.applenova.com/showthread.php?t=28113

Twitter: bwyatt | Xbox: @playsbadly | Instagram: @bw317
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kieran
@kk@pennytucker.social
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
 
2009-07-23, 20:12

I don't know.

I could see them keeping the Classic around for a while.

I think there are plenty of people out there that simply don't want the Touch.

No more Twitter. It's Mastodon now.
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PB PM
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2009-07-23, 20:47

I can see them keeping the Classic for maybe another year, and not updating it, other than maybe battery life. The issue is that, does it sell enough for Apple to keep making them? iPod sales are down, from the latest reports, as many traditional iPod sales are being lost/transferred into iPhone/iPod Touch sales.
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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2009-07-23, 21:04

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
I can see them keeping the Classic for maybe another year, and not updating it, other than maybe battery life. The issue is that, does it sell enough for Apple to keep making them? iPod sales are down, from the latest reports, as many traditional iPod sales are being lost/transferred into iPhone/iPod Touch sales.
Apple's streamlined both their iPod classic (from four models to two) and iPod shuffle (from ten models to two) lines recently (while expanding their iPod nano line to eighteen models). I think that obviously shows what the volume sellers are, but I think Apple sells enough iPod classics and iPod shuffles to warrant keeping them around.

I don't think they'll keep the iPod classic around until the iPod touch eclipses it in capacity - they'll just keep it around until it's close enough. For example, if the new 2009 iPod classic is 160GB, and the 2010 iPod touch came in 32/64/128GB models, I don't think they'd bother making a 2010 iPod classic, even though it would be more capacious. (That 128GB iPod touch would probably be $399 and the outgoing 160GB iPod classic would be $249, so they might keep the iPod classic around an extra year until the price difference is smaller, but I kind of doubt it.)

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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turbulentfurball
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2009-07-24, 09:14

Although the iPod Classic is the poorest selling of the iPod range it probably still outperforms competitors MP3 players I imagine (got no numbers to back that up, but I think that'd be the case)
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Iago
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Hmm?
 
2009-07-24, 09:27

The iPod Classic isn't going anywhere. As turbulentfurball points out it's a very profitable device for Apple and there are a lot of people who don't want the bells and whistles of the iPod Touch. I would imagine it will become a premium iPod when comparable SSD become affordable. A 200GB iPod Classic SSD at £199–£250 would hit the mark.
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Yontsey
*AD SPACE FOR SALE*
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
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2009-07-24, 09:34

I personally love my Classic. I wish I had the 120gb instead of the 80gb, but none the less, I use it exclusively for my car and am able to keep my whole music library on it and not have to carry any cd's with me.

Die young and save yourself....
@yontsey
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PB PM
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2009-07-24, 12:21

For those thinking Apple will up the capacity, I don't see Apple doing it, or do you all forget that there already has been a 160GB version and it was removed in favor of the 120GB version?
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faramirtook
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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2009-07-24, 12:43

If/when my car iPod (from before the days of the 'classic' moniker) dies, I'd be much more inclined to buy a HDD, very high-capacity iPod classic than a high-capacity SSD nano. I got a free 16gb nano from the Back to School deal and while it like it very much for the gym/work/etc, I like to have all of my music for long car rides.

Ale, man, ale's the stuff to drink
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chucker
 
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2009-07-24, 14:25

This is a bit nit-picky, but I'd like to reiterate Wyatt's point that chances are no iPod or iPhone will have an SSD in the near future. They have flash memory, yes, but that's where the similarities end — SSD is a clever arrangement of a grid of flash memory with a performance-optimized controller. The flash memory in an iPod or iPhone is very, very slow. The hard drive in the iPod classic is much faster.

As for how much longer the classic will last, I think Roboman pretty much nails it. It's already a niche product compared to its smaller-in-capacity siblings, and it has been since shortly around 2005, after the introduction of the shuffle (and after one year of the mini). As evidence, consider the average iPod selling price quarter-to-quarter.

We've already seen them scale back from 160 to 120 Gigs, because the higher capacity (at the cost of added weight and thickness due to a second platter) just didn't attract that many people. On the other side, we're seeing the iPod nano's and touch's capacity double every year (16 GB in September '07; 32 GB added in February '08), so, as Roboman said, a 128 GB model by next year's September is likely. It will cost a lot more (but when has that ever stopped Apple?), but it will also offer a lot more.
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Dorian Gray
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Join Date: May 2005
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2009-07-25, 14:04

Flash memory has increased in price of late though, which will delay larger capacities in iPods. I believe the price hike has mostly been caused by a decrease in manufacturing capacity as NAND flash makers went out of business or consolidated production. Obviously the price will go down in the long term, if for no other reason than new process technology will come online (e.g. the recent move to 34 nm by a few manufacturers). But in the short term, high flash prices will extend the life of the classic.

Note that only two companies still make 1.8-inch hard disk drives: Toshiba and Samsung. They have 240 GB and 250 GB drives on the market, but hardly anyone is buying them. Disks smaller than 1.8 inches are rapidly becoming extinct.
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Partial
Stallion
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Milwaukee
 
2009-08-10, 22:52

Any thoughts on the next gen iPod touch? Anyone thinking camera, microphone and faster processor? I would love to get one and use it as a wi-fi phone.
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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2009-08-11, 00:14

Quote:
Originally Posted by Partial View Post
Any thoughts on the next gen iPod touch? Anyone thinking camera, microphone and faster processor? I would love to get one and use it as a wi-fi phone.
A camera is all but confirmed by case manufacturers. The iPod nano is getting one as well.
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Jason
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Join Date: Oct 2004
 
2009-08-11, 03:19

So what is the likely new capacity on a new iPod this September?
I outgrew mine well over a year ago and have been waiting for something with more space.
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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2009-08-11, 06:32

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
So what is the likely new capacity on a new iPod this September?
I outgrew mine well over a year ago and have been waiting for something with more space.
iPod nano:

2005: 1, 2, 4GB*
2006: 2, 4, 8GB
2007: 4, 8GB
2008: 8, 16GB

...you can probably see where this is going. 2009 iPod nanos will almost certainly be 16GB and 32GB.

*1GB model technically added in early 2006

iPod touch:

$229: 16GB
$299: 32GB
$399: 64GB

...to keep pace with the iPhone, yes? They might get the first model under $200; I don't think it'll be $229 forever (though Microsoft, with their $219 and $289 Zune HDs, is betting the pricing will stay the same).

iPod classic:

I'd bet on 160GB, personally. I don't think the "fat" models are ever coming back. Technically, when Apple had two iPod classics (in the fifth generation) they didn't upgrade the capacities each year - the high-end model was 80GB for two years, the low-end model was 30GB for two years (but not the same two years), etc. So they don't technically have to touch the iPod classic at all. But I think they will. A simple bump to the latest hard drives is probably all it will see, though.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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Jason
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
 
2009-08-11, 06:49

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman View Post
A simple bump to the latest hard drives is probably all it will see, though.
That's all I need, to be honest.
Hope your prediction comes true.

Thanks
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Chinney
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Join Date: May 2004
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2009-08-11, 09:07

I think that there will always be room for a high capacity iPod that is a dedicated music player. I have a Touch, which I love, but not all people need or want all the extra functionality. In my view, the Touch is not really an iPod. It is a multi-function device – kind of a PDA – that happens to include a music function. Apple has chosen not to market it that way, but the underlying design and capability of the device says otherwise. Although the Touch’s music interface is nice eye-candy, it is not as practical as that of the ‘wheel’. Meanwhile, the other capabilities of the Touch are vast and are increasing all the time.

Of course, the Touch’s flexibility in programming leaves Apple the potential to improve or even completely redesign the interface for its music function. I hope that Apple does this, but even if they do, the Touch will always be much more than a music player. For people who just want a music player, want the ‘wheel’ (which works well and has become kind of iconic), and want high capacity, the classic iPod will stay around. Eventually, or even soon, it will not be hard-drive based, but I think that it otherwise will have the same basic size and interface as the current classic iPod.

When there's an eel in the lake that's as long as a snake that's a moray.
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Jason
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
 
2009-08-11, 09:23

That's true. At least for me. I'm not interested in the iPod being anything more than a dedicated music player. For me, capacity is a real issue. I have more than twenty-five years worth of albums and CDs. Even encoding them from FLAC down to 320 AAC (for iPod listening) means that storage space is paramount.

I don't subscribe to the idea that you can just pick and choose the tracks you want to take with you. The whole original concept of the iPod was to be able to take your entire music collection with you.

Of course, many people say they don't need all their music with them all the time but many others do. In addition, in this day and age, I don't think its asking too much of technology. Just my opinion, of course.

Regards
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Perfecting_Zero
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
 
2009-08-11, 15:09

Fascinating discussion. I agree that the click wheel and simpler interface of the iPod Classic still have appeal. It's what I prefer if I'm on the go and want to hear my music. Of course, my Ipod of choice is the adorable and design-perfect iPod Mini, with all its curvy aluminum (I have every color except gold!) and perfect palm-fitting size. (I could go on and on -- but I won't. ) Anyway, I like that I can operate the click wheel in a jacket pocket just by touch. I use a Mini for music playback even when I have my 32GB iPhone 3G S. Silly, huh?

"We do not see things as they are, we see them as we are." Anais Nin
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Dorian Gray
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Join Date: May 2005
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2009-08-11, 17:20

I like the iPod classic and hope it sticks around, but it won't last forever. Note how few manufacturers make disk-based DAPs. Microsoft is moving to flash with the Zune HD and Sony has the X-Series. SanDisk doesn't do disks. High-end players are moving to flash memory in a big way.

If Apple decides to give the classic one last major redesign, I'd love to see a stronger emphasis on sound quality (like the X-Series). The people who still buy classics are major music lovers and premium sound quality is important in that market.
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Kraetos
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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2009-08-11, 17:24

The iPod classic's days have been numbered since it was renamed the iPod classic. I highly doubt the classic survives past 2011.

Hey, ten years ain't half bad.

Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.
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Chinney
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ottawa, ON
 
2009-08-11, 19:10

I think that we may be debating two separate things:

1. Whether a hard-drive based iPod will continue to be offered.
2. Whether a large, full-featured iPod as a dedicated music player will continue to be offered.

I think that the answer to the first question is almost certainly "no" and the answer to the second is almost certainly "yes".

When there's an eel in the lake that's as long as a snake that's a moray.

Last edited by Chinney : 2009-08-11 at 21:55. Reason: added "dedicated"
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joveblue
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2009-08-15, 22:48

The latter will most likely be in the form of the iPod Touch, though.

But I don't think the Classic will be eliminated this year. The iPod Touch will be bumped up to 64 GB this year if current trends continue, and then around September next year will be the death of the iPod Classic, leaving Nano, Shuffle and Touch.
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joveblue
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2009-08-15, 23:09

Oh, I just remembered my revelation I had the other day, but never got around to posting here.

We may have already seen the last iPod-focused event.

Think about it...

The Classic is on its last legs - it's days are numbered. The design of it has been refined to a point where any changes to it have been insignificant of late. They may not even bother changing the design this year. I'll bet sales are low and declining so what's the point of investing in an updated design when there's not much of a future in the product and the design is already heavily-refined.

The Nano will stick around for a while, but it's updates are increasingly minor... e.g. "This year's new feature is.... "Shake to Shuffle!"... "Oh..... wow..... *yawn*"

The Shuffle can seems to have been reduced to the most simple design possible, and isn't updated on the September schedule anyway...

And the Touch has most of its new features announced when the iPhone is announced.

They could always surprise us with something completely unexpected but with the product line-up looking very mature and attention now on the Touch I expect all future iPod updates to be silent.
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joveblue
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2009-08-18, 04:58

Way to kill my revelation, AppleInsider

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/08/17/apple_annual_music_event_to_be_held_sept_9_report. html
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Chinney
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Location: Ottawa, ON
 
2009-08-18, 21:17

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinney View Post
I think that we may be debating two separate things:

1. Whether a hard-drive based iPod will continue to be offered.
2. Whether a large, full-featured iPod as a dedicated music player will continue to be offered.

I think that the answer to the first question is almost certainly "no" and the answer to the second is almost certainly "yes".
Quote:
Originally Posted by joveblue View Post
The latter will most likely be in the form of the iPod Touch, though.

But I don't think the Classic will be eliminated this year. The iPod Touch will be bumped up to 64 GB this year if current trends continue, and then around September next year will be the death of the iPod Classic, leaving Nano, Shuffle and Touch.
I meant dedicated music player (with wheel), not a PDA that happens to play music. I love my Touch, but it is not the same thing as an iPod, despite how Apple markets it. I think Apple would make a mistake if it ditched the Classic interface in any near future.

When there's an eel in the lake that's as long as a snake that's a moray.
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Satchmo
can't read sarcasm.
 
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2009-08-18, 22:08

Quote:
Originally Posted by joveblue View Post
The Shuffle can seems to have been reduced to the most simple design possible, and isn't updated on the September schedule anyway...
I'd love to see where they're going with the Shuffle. I'm not sure it's selling very well. Everytime I'm in the Apple Store, there's absolutely no one looking at them. There's more interest in the old version Shuffles which are still on sale.

I've felt Apple had gone too far with their obsession with size. The controls on the cord are fine, but the device is just um...too tiny.
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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2009-08-19, 00:01

Quote:
Originally Posted by Satchmo View Post
I'd love to see where they're going with the Shuffle. I'm not sure it's selling very well. Everytime I'm in the Apple Store, there's absolutely no one looking at them. There's more interest in the old version Shuffles which are still on sale.

I've felt Apple had gone too far with their obsession with size. The controls on the cord are fine, but the device is just um...too tiny.
I think eliminating the colors might have something to do with it. You have to remember that these things have clips on them - they are, quite literally, an accessory. When I showed the new iPod shuffle to my friend Tay, she said that she liked it but didn't understand why they got rid of the colors. I'm not sure I do either, to be honest (streamlining the supply chain makes sense, but they're still offering the 1GB in five colors...).

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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