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Is this replacement iMac better than what I have?


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Is this replacement iMac better than what I have?
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kieran
Tweeting @kierankelly
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York City
 
2019-12-03, 14:59

So I've been having some issues with my 21.5" iMac for a while now. 3 screen replacements later for a "smudge" mark on the bottom left corner and Apple is finally willing to replace it.

My iMac that I have currently has 3.0ghz i5, 8GB RAM, 1 TB HDD, and Radeon Pro with 2GB.

The replacement they want to give me has:

Quote:
21.5‑inch iMac with Retina 4K display.
3.6GHz quad-core 8th-generation Intel Core i3 processor
16GB DDR4 memory
Radeon Pro 555X with 2GB of GDDR5 memory
1TB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm
Magic Mouse 2
Magic Keyboard - US English
I was going to pay for the RAM upgrade, but since this has dragged on forever, they're now bumping it up for free. The original replacement they quoted me with had a fusion drive, which I'm kind of annoyed they took away, but I've been booting off of an external SSD for a while now, so that internal drive is just extra storage for the most part.

Is this a good replacement? I never know with the CPU options and such.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-12-03, 15:03

Yes, it is. That's a base model 21" iMac 4K and it is a very capable machine (although it's way better with the Fusion Drive and I am surprised they are doing RAM rather than the drive). You might ask if you can foot the $100 for the FD. It's well worth it, although if you are booting from an external it probably does't matter a lick. Otherwise, those old 5400rpm 2.5" SATA drives are just … hopeless!

Otherwise, it's a very good computer.

Question though: Your current iMac, is it a 4-core? The current 3.0 is a 6-core. I am assuming yours is an older model (a 2017 or earlier?).

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!
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kieran
Tweeting @kierankelly
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York City
 
2019-12-03, 15:06

That'w what I was assuming. The one I currently have is the 2018 base model, so replacing it with something equivalent is perfectly fine.

I originally told them I would pay the bill for the upgrade from 8 to 16, but then they told me they would foot it since this was taking too long, but they dropped the fusion drive out. Booooo.

But as you said, since booting form an external, tis' not really that big fo a deal and I wouldn't' even notice most likely if I just continue doing as I'm doing now.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-12-03, 15:25

There isn't actually a 2018 model. You have a late 2017 that you bought sometime in 2018.

But that doesn't matter. Geekbench thinks your current 2017 21" scores 3035 in multicore, while the 2019 scores 3268. Not a huge improvement (like 9%), but it's still an improvement. In single core, the new system gets 920, the 2017 gets 868 (also about 9%). So, again, not huge but still faster. The GPU will also get a small kick. The 2017 will have a faster drive due to its Fusion, but that doesn't seem to matter.

Either way, you're getting a newer system to replace an old one at no cost to you, and that is kudos to Apple. That will have an effect some time in the future when Mac OS 10.20 or something renders the 2017 obsolete but not the 2019.

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!
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pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2019-12-04, 10:02

Seems like a fine replacement. I do think it’s a bit chintzy that they “downgraded” you in a couple of areas. If you had an i5 and a Fusion Drive, then that should be what they match, IMO. They haven’t offered an i3 iMac in quite a while, but just because that’s suddenly their new base model, that isn’t your problem. And if they should match the kind of hard drive you had...you went out of your way to select that (it wasn’t the stock offering, was it?).

Yes, it’s great that they’re finally replacing after so many repairs - gee thanks, Timmy! - but they’re going to do it in a way that hits them the least.

I’m certainly not suggesting they give you some maxed-out replacement (i7, 32GB RAM, 4GB graphics, 1TB SSD), but I don’t think they should downgrade you in any area either.

Comes across a little petty for a $1T outfit.

But that’s just me. I may be viewing it all wrong.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-12-04, 10:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
But that’s just me. I may be viewing it all wrong.
Yes and no. While it may be an i3, the computer he is getting is more powerful than the one he is giving up. This is a free upgrade where none is warranted.

However, they are also downgrading his hard drive, which will actually have a more detrimental effect on performance than the processor. This is where I would be making my argument. Those 2.5" SATA drives are so crappy by modern standards that we won't even stock that model in our shop. If it doesn't at least have a Fusion Drive, it isn't on the shelf. The performance difference is literally that drastic. I would be arguing for the drive over the RAM, but Kieran is booting from an external anyway, so it is maybe less important to him.

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!
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pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2019-12-04, 17:12

I'll concede the i3 thing. If that's equivalent, or better, performance than what he had in the processor department, fine.

They boned him on the hard drive, and he should have the equivalent Fusion Drive he originally spec'd/paid for on his original machine (and then give him the option to go to 16GB of RAM for a reasonable $100 or so, half the $200 they currently charge, just to help offset the hassle/pain-in-the-butt this has been for him).

They don't know, and it shouldn't even matter, how he's booting/using the thing. Going from a Fusion Drive back to the 5400rpm spinners is a step down, period, and they should know that.

Apple can somehow manage to be the most luxury, premium AND chintziest, nickel-and-diming outfit on the planet. For the prices they charge, some of their base, core features/specs should sing a little more, IMO. And in situations like this, they shouldn't feel comfortable giving the man less than what he already had in the storage department (capacity or drive type). Again, his Fusion Drive didn't come stock on his machine...he knew he wanted that, and went out of his way to spec, and pay for, that tech. That's what Apple should replace it with.

But I guess you don't become a $1T company by being all Gandhi/Santa Claus about everything, huh?
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-12-04, 17:25

Yep!
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kieran
Tweeting @kierankelly
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York City
 
2019-12-04, 22:22

I love this place for threads like this. :-)

People are getting more annoyed than I was over this and it's fantastic.

Honestly I would rather have the RAM, so I'm not entirely annoyed with the replacement and I don't know if I can wait another 3 weeks to get this changed again.

I didn't think it would be that difficult to get a base model iMac replaced due to being lemon. The first repair of this screen took place in February, with another in June, and a third in September. It's a "smudge" like thing on the bottom left, but it's not on the screen, so replacing the screen was a waste.

Definitely seems more like an internal heating thing going bad because it's spreading out from the bottom corner and gets worse over time.

I really just want the damn thing replaced and am getting highly annoyed that I'm still going back and forth with them for over a month since I said the issue came up again.

Would make this so much easier to just walk into an Apple Store with this one, confirm it's the same issue for the FOURTH time, and I walk out with a new one.

Now, they want me to find a box to send this back, they check it, and then they send me a replacement. Luckily, I have a MBP I can use to get by for however long the replacement process takes, but this iMac is my main machine and it's going to be a pain to be without it.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-12-04, 23:33

I've never seen Apple make a quick decision on stuff like this. Yes, there is a problem that demonstrates the computer is a lemon, but it takes time to sort that out. Kudos to Apple for replacing it, grumbles for dropping the FD, and glad it is working out, even though it is frustrating. I have a very good, long-running customer who bought a high-end 27" iMac and had a recurring problem. My boss said he thought it was a software problem, the techs all thought it was hardware. It went on for a year and took three times (which is typical) before Apple finally replaced the computer with a brand new (and much improved) system. They refused to do it through our shop, so the customer had to take it to the Apple Store. They did a data migration and the problem almost immediately resurfaced in the new system. The customer called to tell us and we asked him to bring it in. My boss did a very thorough software investigation and found a Safari plugin was causing the problem the whole time!

In other words, his first instinct—that it was software—proved correct.

Sometimes it takes time to sort things out, and sometimes that can be very frustrating and not even yield the correct answer.

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!
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drewprops
Magnificent Basturd™
sagacious-d
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2019-12-04, 23:57

My previous laptop was an early 2011 and it was snakebit. 2 or 3 motherboard swaps (they were all bad) and they never replaced the unit. I had to replace it at around 3 years old. I am still angry about that one. The late model 2014 version I have now is doing quite well, just needs a battery replacement.


...

Steve Jobs ate my cat's watermelon.
Captain Drew on Twitter
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-12-05, 10:49

Change your profession. Apple does not like piracy!

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kieran
Tweeting @kierankelly
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York City
 
2019-12-14, 08:45

So, to give a small update.

I asked them to send me a box so that I wouldn't have to pay $50-100 to package the iMac to send back (sent an iMac to my brother last year. Packaging cost $50!) They said no.

I finally agreed to cover that cost, but asked them to wait until after the holiday as I'm going on vacation and there would be no one here to accept a computer shipped back. They told me they cannot hold the replacement for that long.

Now, my two month long odyssey will have to start all over again after I return as I was told to call back into the support line and start the replacement process all over again.

I'm super glad I've never had a major issue with an Apple computer before, because if this is the way that this kind of stuff is handled, I never want to deal with this again.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-12-14, 12:22

Sheesh.

And there is no Apple Store / Premier Partner near you where they could handle this?
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kieran
Tweeting @kierankelly
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York City
 
2019-12-14, 13:42

Already asked if I could just take it to the store.

Since there has already been 3 repairs on the same issue, they need it mailed back in, then they diagnose the problem, and then they send me a new one.

Just doesn't seem like a very efficient process, especially since I live 3 blocks from an Apple Store in NYC.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2019-12-14, 14:17

Ridiculous, at every level. I have such a short fuse for this kind of constant, moronic and pointless nonsense anymore, individuals or companies (big or small). I’d totally be at the “Hey, here’s an idea...GFY!” stage at this point.

You have more patience (and maturity) than I ever will, that’s for sure.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tidewater Virginia
 
2019-12-14, 15:54

That really is the kind of thing I've heard to people emailing Tim directly about. I don't know that it would get to him or even make a difference, but it really is crazy to have to go through that much to prove the issue out. I'm shocked you can't have it shipped out from the Apple Store at their dime.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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kieran
Tweeting @kierankelly
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York City
 
2019-12-14, 16:56

Sent an email to Tim’s address a few days ago when they told me they couldn’t hold the replacement. No response sadly.

I typically would be a little more upset, but there’s not much I can really do at the moment.

Just wish there was a way I could walk to the Apple store, turn mine in, and get a replacement.

This has been taking forever to deal with a recurring issue. Super frustrating.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2019-12-14, 17:46

Quote:
Originally Posted by kieran View Post
Just wish there was a way I could walk to the Apple store, turn mine in, and get a replacement.
It never would've occurred to me that you couldn't. I guess they're just mostly for the front-end, feel-good part of the equation vs. truly throwing a loyal customer a lifeline. And that a $1T outfit wouldn't cover shipping back for their defective machine speaks volumes, especially since this isn't the first go-around on this issue with it. Unbelievable.

Someone there needs a smack. This just isn't good service or being helpful, I don't care who it is...Apple or some local, mom-and-pop shoe store.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kieran View Post
This has been taking forever to deal with a recurring issue. Super frustrating.
I'm sure! Nothing worse than something not living up - multiple times - to what you pay for it (no Mac in existence is a cheap, throwaway/impulse purchase, after all). But then to have to run a damn obstacle course of numerous phone calls, emails, explaining to multiple people, buck-passing, stonewalling, cheapskating, etc. on top of it? Yikes...
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-12-14, 18:08

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscates2.0 View Post
Someone there needs a smack.
Scates always has the best answer!
  quote
pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2019-12-15, 11:31

It’s a ball that shouldn’t be dropped to this degree.

It’s lame enough that they’re shorting him on a specific storage type he originally chose/paid for (and, no...the extra RAM or whatever else doesn’t offset that, IMO). And now they’re cornholing him over the coals on shipping, timeframes, etc.?

This isn’t good customer service. It seems to be an issue/defect, several times now, on their product...and they almost seem to be going out of their way to make the resolution of it all an enormous logistical and financial pain-in-the-ass for someone whose money they already got (and I’m pretty sure this isn’t kieran’s first Apple purchase, so they should be able to check registration info and buying history on their end enough to see he’s a longtime, loyal customer and maybe see fit to cut through the horseshit and aggravation a bit).

Or do companies no longer do that sort of thing? Is that just “old school” service/support that modern outfits don’t buy into for bean-counting reasons?

This could, and should, have been resolved way before now, without all this aggravation. There just seems to be excessive roadblocks and “gotchas” through all this, IMO. Just no good faith efforts to take care of a paying, loyal customer being put forth by Apple that I can see.

They’re not doing the man right, and that just irks me, on a human level.
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kieran
Tweeting @kierankelly
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York City
 
2019-12-15, 16:43

I’m honestly thinking the same thing Paul.

All they’d have to do is look at my purchase history. Hell, even just the last year. Two iPhone 11 pros, a new MacBook Pro, two AirPods, so many damn subscriptions I don’t even remember them all, etc..

This is.a base level iMac we’re talking about here. The cost to Apple is minimal compared to what I’ve spent over the last however many years.

Just feels like an easy problem to solve and I’m being bounced around from person to person because they’re following some script and no one is taking the time to actually look into this.
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kieran
Tweeting @kierankelly
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York City
 
2019-12-16, 17:51

Amazingly, someone from Apple's Executive Relations team reached out to me today. Said they had received my email to "Mr. Tim Cook" and were going to help me handle this situation.

Holy shit. Did not expect that.

Since I'm away until after the holidays, the conversation about sending back the iMac and getting a replacement will have to wait until the 26th, but at least there is someone up high looking after this now.

Hopefully this gets resolved pretty easily now that someone higher up is handling it, rather than just reading through a script. Maybe even get an upgrade?

Not even looking for that though. Just looking for someone to get the computer that I purchased back to working again as it should be. Not too big of an ask.

Definitely seems like things are going to be better moving forward.
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pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2019-12-16, 17:54

awesome to hear. Sometimes you gotta make a little noise, I guess.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tidewater Virginia
 
2019-12-16, 17:57

At this point don't be afraid to push for an upgrade to minimum matching *current* specs. Your time and trouble has a value and they need to repay that. Your negative word of mouth will go far and they know it. I'm not saying ask for an iMac Pro, but those minimum specs like Fusion Drive or SSD alone is worth it.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-12-16, 17:57

Excellent news!
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-12-17, 15:22

I was thinking back about that customer I mentioned and how they got their problem resolved. As I recall, after the third attempt I jokingly advised my customer to send a note to Tim Cook. We had no idea what his email address was, so I jokingly said, "tim@apple.com". That sounded too easy so we googled it and found tcook@apple.com. My customer did fire off an email, and a week later Apple got back to him and replaced his computer.

So, that in mind, if the situation does not get resolved just send Tim Cook an email.

But!

Do not do it the first time around. Seriously, it sounds to me like that method will help after you have gone through the normal hoops and the problem has not been rectified, where the normal hoops means three repair attempts.

Boise State! … Boise State! … Boise State!
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pscates2.0
Mr. Farmiga
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2019-12-17, 15:27

Definitely. I wouldn’t go wasting that on the first go-around (I don’t think). Keep that in your pocket and pull it out once it’s obvious the standard channels and procedures aren’t going to pan out. I can only imagine how abused that must get!

“Hey, Tim - I have a slight headache. Can I get a new MacBook Pro?”
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2019-12-17, 15:39

That's why he has a personal email reader dude/ette that skims through the garbage. Hell, there might be a whole fleet of them!
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kieran
Tweeting @kierankelly
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York City
 
2019-12-17, 18:04

Yeah, I never even thought about sending an email to Tim Cook before, even after getting many things repaired over the years.

However, this one is so far out of the norm, that I figured it couldn't hurt to give it a shot.

Wish I was home sooner in order to see how this is going to play out, but I've got another week or so until I can get back to this.
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