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Ghost2
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Join Date: Feb 2006
 
2006-09-04, 20:35

The display industry is rapidly increasing it rate of growth, displays that are larger, faster, have more resolution, brightness, and contrast are now becoming more common, and cheaper as well. I think it would be crazy not to think apple will udpate its displays to match the market trends. These are my predictions for the ACD in the near an not so near future.

Next Generation.
I think the replacement to the current aluminum will be released in a similar enclosure to the current displays with the built in isight camera and front row of course, but I think there will be a little more going on than that with our next gen displays. For one thing I think there is a possibility that the next gen (early to mid 07) displays will shift away from the current DVI standard to the UDI standard. Since apple is part of the UDI special interest group the transition would make perfect since. I also belive that we will see a size shift and an entirely new model introduced in 07 so the lineup would look something like this.

21 inch $499
24 inch $999
27 inch $1499
30 inch $1999

I think the 21 inch would have the same res a the current 20 inch and the 24 inch would have the same res as the 23 inch. I'm also hoping that the 27 inch gets a resolution like 2304x1440 so the pixel density wouldn't be too awful.

Generation After Next
I think this generation is where things will really start to get cool. I think this is when they would up the pixel density to around 200ppi or above, and the lcds would get cool led backlights which would allow for higher dynamic range and wider color gamut. I think the resolutions would end up being something like this.

21 inch 3200x2000
24 inch 3840x2400
27 inch 4800x3000
30 inch 5120x3200

I don't think these displays would come any earlier that mid-late 2008, and I think that minor updates and price drops will occur in between those two generations, this is just where I think the specs will be at those particular points in time. I'm interested in what everyone else has to think on the subject.
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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2006-09-04, 20:58

There's no way they'd increase the screen sizes but keep the same resolutions. That'd be a step backwards. The 20" display is so close to being HD right now, if they made it an inch bigger but kept the same resolution, there will be rioting in the streets. Well, maybe not. But close.

If anything, the 21" display would have the same resolution as the current 23-incher.

And then you say that resolutions will nearly double the next generation. I'm confused - you're saying that the displays will get less sharp, and then practically double in sharpness? I know resolution independence will alow Apple to abandon their current ~110 dpi stance, but resolutions won't double overnight.

Finally, I'm not sure where everybody is getting the support for a 27" display. Sure, there's a big gap in price between the 23" and the 30", but how many people honstly want a display that's bigger than 23" but smaller than 30"?

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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dmegatool
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Join Date: Jul 2006
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2006-09-04, 21:18

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman View Post
[...] how many people honstly want a display that's bigger than 23" but smaller than 30"?
100% right. If you need bigger than 23", you don't need smaller than 30". Seriously !
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MCQ
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2006-09-04, 22:17

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost2 View Post
Generation After Next
I think this generation is where things will really start to get cool. I think this is when they would up the pixel density to around 200ppi or above, and the lcds would get cool led backlights which would allow for higher dynamic range and wider color gamut. I think the resolutions would end up being something like this.

21 inch 3200x2000
24 inch 3840x2400
27 inch 4800x3000
30 inch 5120x3200
For my lack of knowledge - do you know if manufacturers on track to get to these levels of resolutions with a low level of pixel failure? That's a huge increase in the number of pixels for a panel, about 3-4x the current amount.
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Ghost2
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Join Date: Feb 2006
 
2006-09-05, 05:32

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman View Post
There's no way they'd increase the screen sizes but keep the same resolutions. That'd be a step backwards. The 20" display is so close to being HD right now, if they made it an inch bigger but kept the same resolution, there will be rioting in the streets. Well, maybe not. But close.

If anything, the 21" display would have the same resolution as the current 23-incher.
Yeah apple making a 21 inch display with the same resolution as as the current 23 inch would be great, and is very plausible, but I just based my predictions on displays that are currently available, and to my knowledge no display like that is currently available. I know that this logic is flawed becuase of this simple fact that I do not know all of the things apple has access to to build it product with. The reason I did not do this with the 27 inch is becuase a 27 inch display with wuxga resolution would really suck, and there would be no reason for apple to produce a display with that low resolution. Yeah and I do realize that was your arguement to begin with, and that I'm contradicting myself, but give me a break it's the best I could come up with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman View Post
And then you say that resolutions will nearly double the next generation. I'm confused - you're saying that the displays will get less sharp, and then practically double in sharpness? I know resolution independence will alow Apple to abandon their current ~110 dpi stance, but resolutions won't double overnight.
Very true, and I'm not saying that they will, what I am saying is that they will eventually get that sharp. I think what got you confused is my wording, when I say generation I mean a complete update, including the exterior of the display. You know like the white ACDs-the aluminum ACDs, but in between these generations there will be updates to the specs of the panels until they get to or close to the resolutions that I talked about. It would be a smooth progression, not a sudden jump. Sorry for any confusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman View Post
Finally, I'm not sure where everybody is getting the support for a 27" display. Sure, there's a big gap in price between the 23" and the 30", but how many people honstly want a display that's bigger than 23" but smaller than 30"?
I don't know Roboman, for some reason ever since I heard about 27/26 inch displays I've been wanting one very badly. For me the 30 inch is just a little bit to expensive, but I want to go higher than a 23 inch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MCQ View Post
For my lack of knowledge - do you know if manufacturers on track to get to these levels of resolutions with a low level of pixel failure? That's a huge increase in the number of pixels for a panel, about 3-4x the current amount.
Viewsonic VP2290b

I need to stop starting threads, I'm not very good at it
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BJNY
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
 
2006-09-05, 06:35

The upcoming 26/27" LCDs from Dell & NEC are 1920 x 1200
same resolution as the current 23/24".

At least the NEC will be Adobe1998 gamut.
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2006-09-05, 06:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost2 View Post
Hm, eBay offer for $2,295.00. Not bad. A new one is still around $4.5k, though.

Oh, and can I kill the reviewer? Please?

Quote:
Of course, for text work you might as well forget it. The font size is simply too small to comfortably work with


Quote:
the four channels needed to compile the display's resolution at a full refresh rate of 41Hz


Quote:
Talking of refresh rate, a rate of 41Hz in a CRT would be extremely flickery and could in no doubt cause eye strain. However, with an LCD the technology is different in that it does not rely on phosphor where its low persistence between screen refreshes can result in flicker.


Who employs such amateurs to write about displays? A TFT doesn't have a refresh rate.

Nonetheless, almost 204 ppi are impressive, even at a very slow response time of 50 ms. And this was over two years ago.
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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2006-09-05, 13:51

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost2 View Post
I don't know Roboman, for some reason ever since I heard about 27/26 inch displays I've been wanting one very badly. For me the 30 inch is just a little bit to expensive, but I want to go higher than a 23 inch.
Fair enough. I know that there is a rather large price and size difference, but the 30" display really is more of a niche product, and the 20" and 23" displays take care of us mere mortals quite nicely, so I'm not sure if Apple needs to bridge the gap with another niche display. But I hope they do, for your sake.

And I hope they drop the price on the 20", for their sake. Seriously, though - the 30" display has dropped in price $1,000 in the time the 20" display has dropped $100.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
iDaver
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: USA
 
2006-09-05, 21:17

The 30" display is now priced at what I paid for my 23" two years ago. Shoulda waited.
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joveblue
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Melbourne
 
2006-09-05, 23:30

Quote:
Originally Posted by iDaver View Post
The 30" display is now priced at what I paid for my 23" two years ago. Shoulda waited.
If you wait another two years they'll be even cheaper again.
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joveblue
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Join Date: Aug 2006
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2006-09-06, 05:31

Not for another 3 years, bare minimum... even then the price of LCDs will probably mean that they won't be in mainstream usage, and not worth bothering with for another 3 years again. I don't think Apple would see any benefit in being a leader in this field.
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Moogs
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
 
2006-09-06, 08:32

Considering the new iMac will have a 24" screen, safe to say that will be one of the three sizes Apple offers with the next batch. Nor will Apple do "tweener" screen sizes that offer no better resolution than the previous next smaller size.

Further, it's safe to say they won't start the lineup with a giant 23" screen. Not everyone has need or a ton of desk space for a huge monitor. There will continue to be a 20" model for the foreseeable future IMO.

Forget about an LED-backlit screen like the NEC model. They're too expensive to manufacture still. You might get a fourth, super-high-end model that costs $4000 or something, but you won't see a good LED-backlit LCD from Apple for say $2000 or something like that. Not for a couple years at least I wouldn't think.

...into the light of a dark black night.
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Ghost2
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Join Date: Feb 2006
 
2006-09-06, 21:40

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moogs View Post
Considering the new iMac will have a 24" screen, safe to say that will be one of the three sizes Apple offers with the next batch. Nor will Apple do "tweener" screen sizes that offer no better resolution than the previous next smaller size.
Which is exactly why I said that apple would not produce a display with a "tweener" screen size unless they could find a panel with a higher resolution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moogs View Post
, it's safe to say they won't start the lineup with a giant 23" screen. Not everyone has need or a ton of desk space for a huge monitor. There will continue to be a 20" model for the foreseeable future IMO.
I never said that apple would start the cinema display with a 23 inch monitor. I did say that it would make sense for apple to replace the 20 inch with a 21 inch which would not consume much more desktop space than a 20 inch monitor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moogs View Post
Forget about an LED-backlit screen like the NEC model. They're too expensive to manufacture still. You might get a fourth, super-high-end model that costs $4000 or something, but you won't see a good LED-backlit LCD from Apple for say $2000 or something like that. Not for a couple years at least I wouldn't think.
I don't think that you thoroughly read my post becuase I did not say that the ACDs would get an LED-backlight as you said until a couple of years until the technology becomes less expensive and more mainstream.
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iDaver
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: USA
 
2006-09-06, 22:00

Personally, I hope the 24" 1920x1200 iMac display is for it alone. Apple should reduce pixel size on their stand-alone displays rather than go the other way. Perhaps bigger is appropriate for the iMac since some will use it as a Front Row/media center kind of thing and bigger is better for viewing from a distance. As others have said, it might be good for Apple to up the resolution of the 20" Cinema to that of the current 23" and increase the 23" and 30" accordingly, particularly if OS X 10.5 will feature resolution independence.
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portland, OR
 
2006-09-06, 22:09

I am a bit puzzled as to why the iMac uses a 24" display. I mean, we'd all be just as floored with a 23" iMac. Maybe the 24" display is cheaper, I guess...but I have trouble believing that it's much cheaper, especially since Apple already orders 23" panels at the same resolution.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
chucker
 
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2006-09-07, 00:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman View Post
I am a bit puzzled as to why the iMac uses a 24" display. I mean, we'd all be just as floored with a 23" iMac. Maybe the 24" display is cheaper, I guess...but I have trouble believing that it's much cheaper, especially since Apple already orders 23" panels at the same resolution.
It's really the same story as going from the 15.2" / 1280x854 (and later 1440x960) panels to 15.4" / 1440x900. They're more common in the market, there's more competition, and thus, you're more likely to drive prices further and further down.

In fact, photokinda would be a fitting venture to introduce new displays.
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macleod
Now in lower-case™!
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
 
2006-09-08, 21:45

Does anybody have any ideas about the timeline for when they might update the cinema displays? Like if I want a 20 inch monitor but would love it to be an Apple with iSight integrated, maybe IR for Front Row, and HD...is this possible and how long is it likely to be before an update? Thanks!
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DMBand0026
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Chicago
 
2006-09-08, 23:04

Based on the MacRumors.com buyers guide, it may be a while before we see display updates. The guide indicates that there was just an update, but that was just a price drop if I recall correctly. However, the displays have traditionally been the hardest to establish a solid update cycle, so the buyers guide might not even be a great thing to go off of, although it's usually pretty accurate.

That said, it'll probably be a while before they're updated, as in 6+ months.

Come waste your time with me
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macleod
Now in lower-case™!
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
 
2006-09-08, 23:39

Even with the movies maybe being added to the movie store you think it will be that long before they update their displays to be more multimedia featured? (aka all HD, iSight, IR for Front Row)
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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2006-09-09, 00:33

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMBand0026 View Post
Based on the MacRumors.com buyers guide, it may be a while before we see display updates. The guide indicates that there was just an update, but that was just a price drop if I recall correctly. However, the displays have traditionally been the hardest to establish a solid update cycle, so the buyers guide might not even be a great thing to go off of, although it's usually pretty accurate.

That said, it'll probably be a while before they're updated, as in 6+ months.
The displays were upgraded when they got a price drop (alongside the Mac Pro), too. Just a small improvement on a few specs I don't know anything about.

The same happened earlier in the year, if I'm not mistaken. So yeah, it'll probably be a while before we see new displays (MWSF?).

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
  quote
Matsu
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2006-09-09, 05:32

A couple of things are happening to the display market that help explain why certain sizes are available at certain resolutions, and others are not...

Displays are standardizing around widescreen (16x10) ratios. Sizes tend to be 13.3, 14, 15.4, 17, 20, 24, 30. There are other sizes and square ratios kicking around, but in the case of everything under 17" those are mainly laptop displays, and you still see a square 17-19" display attached to a desktop bundle now and again. 17 and 20" wide is taking over that spot though. 23" is disappearing in favour of 24" and we're not seeing many 21" widescreens. These are all just standardizations that the industry is comfortable with for whatever reasons, and are generally a good thing because it brings prices down. In the early days of widescreen we had 3:2 ratios, 16:9.6, and 16:10 for computer displays, and 16:9 for HDTV, and we had many more sizes. 15.2, 17, 19, 20, 21, 22 in addition to 4:3 and 5:4 screens in 15, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 -- lots of sizes, little standardization... Now we have 16:10 (computer monitor) and 16:9 (HDTV display) and 3-4 main sizes.

Early on we were limited to 1280x1024 (early DVI) and then 1600x1200. The situation is a lot better now, DVI and LCD provides as much resolution as most people will need for any task. Resolutions tend to max out at 1920x1200, and may stay there for a while untill DVI is fully replaced with a new standard or Dual Link DVI becomes ubiquitous. More will come, certainly, but for now we've got enough resolution to work comfortablly.

And enough display size too! 15" displays have all but disappeared from the desktop space. Smaller sizes will continue to be made, but mainly for laptop use. In a couple of years 20" will be the new entry level. However, it may be a long time before we have desktop screens larger than 30" for the simple reason that they can become too large for normal working distances (as opposed to casual viewing distances).

Perhaps what is needed for desktop use above 30" is a wider panoramic ratio, something 2:1 or greater that mimics a dual display set up fused together (no centre bezel). This way, while wide, your monitor remains at eye level...

.........................................
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