[chucker]

Originally Posted by dglow Or three Mac minis stacked atop each other? iMac Pro was designed for a world in which the 2019 Mac Pro didn’t happen. Either way, a headless desktop is the compare. xMac 4eva.

The iMac Pro is a better analogy because in terms of pricing and capabilities, it was between their midrange desktops and the Mac Pro.

[Frank777]

Originally Posted by chucker The iMac Pro is a better analogy because in terms of pricing and capabilities, it was between their midrange desktops and the Mac Pro.

This is probably true, except that since the Studio showed up, the 'midrange' 27-inch iMac has gone missing.

[dglow]

I hope the iMac Pro is not the best analogy. Like the Trash Can, the iMac Pro was a one-and-done design for Apple, never iterated upon. Great machine, but bad follow-through.
I'm sure none here want or expect a similar fate for the Mac Studio.


Back to the forthcoming Apple Silicon Mac Pro: I'm very excited to see what direction Apple takes; as discussed above, the areas of greatest interest are RAM, expansion, and the GPU. I'll recap my speculation below, and welcome others' predictions along these lines...


Apple Silicon Mac Pro

RAM:
- user-expandable via standard, off-the-shelf DIMMs
- a separate tier from on-package RAM, enabled via an Apple-designed bridge chip
- macOS will automatically manage this new RAM pool unless an app requests explicit control

Expansion:
- PCIe, either 4.0 or 5.0, via standard slots located inside the primary chassis of the machine
- (Apple will not rely on PCI-over-Thunderbolt, external card cages, etc.)

GPU:
- most apps will use the GPU found on the Mac Pro's SoC – like the Ultra, this will be surfaced as a 'single GPU'
- apps requiring additional GPU horsepower will need to explicitly code for it (as is the case today)
- upon reflection I think it most likely that Apple will lean on AMD for Metal-compatible GPU expansion cards
- if so, these cards will use an evolution of the 2019 Pro's MPX standard
- while I'd love to see it, I think the odds are only 1 in 4 that Apple offers a GPU expansion cards with their own Apple Silicon design

[PB PM]

I highly suspect there won't be user accessible RAM, just doesn't fit the way Apple is going. They will just offer higher limits. If it is up-gradable, I think it might be through some kind of add-on card or something, only available and install-able from Apple so it works with the T2 chip.

PCI-E cards, kind of must for the high end work stations, so this just has to be there if there is going to be a Mac Pro with Apple silicon. Question is, who's going to make cards for them? I can see there being very few available, maybe some for direct video importing and such. Doubt there will be any GPU options to be honest, AMD has bigger fish to fry than making a few custom firmware GPU's for a tiny number of machines.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by PB PM I highly suspect there won't be user accessible RAM, just doesn't fit the way Apple is going. They will just offer higher limits. If it is up-gradable, I think it might be through some kind of add-on card or something, only available and install-able from Apple so it works with the T2 chip.

They could do that, but it would still have significantly worse performance characteristics that way. At the very least, far higher latency.

So unless they remove the on-package RAM altogether, they'd still have a heterogenous approach.

[drewprops]

The question of whether they build a user-expandable box or a (mostly) sealed monolith is interesting. I hope it looks like Darth Vader.


...

[dglow]

Originally Posted by drewprops I hope it looks like Darth Vader. ...

[PB PM]

Mac Vader Pro, starting at only $9999. $999 for the Vader breath fan and cape stand. Got to pay those royalties to Disney after all.

[turtle]

I would struggle to not justify buying that.

[Frank777]

Originally Posted by chucker And yeah, the holidays are only relevant for consumer products.

Hmmm.

[Frank777]

I'm about to buy a used 2019 27" iMac because there's no current machine in the lineup that fits my budget and needs.

But Apple apparently has the time to consider moving into sports team ownership.

[chucker]

I don't really follow what a 2019 iMac does that a 2022 Mac Studio doesn't, other than the monitor.

[Frank777]

Originally Posted by chucker I don't really follow what a 2019 iMac does that a 2022 Mac Studio doesn't, other than the monitor.

I'd love the Studio + Display if money was no object. But a Mac Studio with 32/4TB is $4,000, plus another grand - at least - for the monitor.
The iMac is $2100, with the same 32/4TB specs, and obviously the built-in display.

I'd normally buy a new 27" iMac at the lower end of the range. But I don't see anything for me, at least right now.

[chucker]

Hm, I can't quickly find old versions of the BTO options.

But I can't imagine the 27" iMac with 32 GB RAM and 4 TB SSD was $2100. Maybe if the 4 TB was a HDD? But the RAM alone surely was another $400. I would guess that configuration was more like $3700 US. The equivalent Mac Studio (again, US) is $3200.

The monitor… yeah, I know. Save yourself the pain and money and don't get Apple's. Third-party ones aren't as nice as far as the panel goes, but the price is just unjustifiable.

I'd also argue getting a 4 TB internal disk is silly. Yes, it'll be fast, but also not upgradeable. Save $1k and get 1 TB. Then get a Crucial X6 4TB for $260. Or an OWC Envoy Pro 4 TB for $779.

[Frank777]

Originally Posted by chucker Hm, I can't quickly find old versions of the BTO options. But I can't imagine the 27" iMac with 32 GB RAM and 4 TB SSD was $2100. Maybe if the 4 TB was a HDD? But the RAM alone surely was another $400. I would guess that configuration was more like $3700 US. The equivalent Mac Studio (again, US) is $3200. The monitor… yeah, I know. Save yourself the pain and money and don't get Apple's. Third-party ones aren't as nice as far as the panel goes, but the price is just unjustifiable. I'd also argue getting a 4 TB internal disk is silly. Yes, it'll be fast, but also not upgradeable. Save $1k and get 1 TB. Then get a Crucial X6 4TB for $260. Or an OWC Envoy Pro 4 TB for $779.

It certainly wasn't that price brand new, I'm looking at buying an almost three-year-old computer


The Disk thing is something I've always wondered about. I've never had my apps on one drive (the iMac's) and my documents on another. And then I hook up a Time Machine drive to back them both up on? That seems a bit convoluted to me. How does that work out in real life?

I don't think you can just ignore the main machine drive and set an iMac to boot from the external, can you?

[chucker]

Originally Posted by Frank777 It certainly wasn't that price brand new, I'm looking at buying an almost three-year-old computer

Ohhhh, I see what you're saying. Yeah, that makes sense.

Originally Posted by Frank777 The Disk thing is something I've always wondered about. I've never had my apps on one drive (the iMac's) and my documents on another. And then I hook up a Time Machine drive to back them both up on? That seems a bit convoluted to me. How does that work out in real life?

The Time Machine part isn't really a big deal. It's just two folders, really. One with your internal, one with your external.

Yes, it isn't as nice as having everything be the same volume, but it saves you a whole lot of money and gives you more flexibility to upgrade in the future.

Originally Posted by Frank777 I don't think you can just ignore the main machine drive and set an iMac to boot from the external, can you?

You could, and then get an even smaller internal disk, but Apple's internal disks are very fast, so having the OS on internal does benefit you.

[Frank777]

Thanks. Maybe I will look for one with a smaller SSD and go with the larger external.