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geneman
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2005-09-27, 22:37

Since it's common practice to advocate people to post in existing threads, I was wondering if it's possible to somehow flag threads that are resurrected.

e.g. by showing the date in red if the thread has been inactive for a month or more.

I often (ok, sometimes) find myself reading through threads only to discover they are a year old and not of much relevance, except a question posed in the very last entry. Or I post a question at the end of a thread with a fitting title, but won't get an answer because people never read the question (or the question is stupid, who knows...).

just a thought, I have no idea if it's even possible to implement.

P.S. I know about 'the arrow function' but if the title is new to me I'll just click it and start at the beginning.

"What can be asserted without evidence, can also be dismissed without evidence." - C. Hitchens
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scratt
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2005-09-27, 22:44

The problem with marking threads in red ink (on the date or such like) is that after a while (depending on how many computers have viewed that thread, and how rough their screen filter is) the red starts to fade (well rub off almost) and then it just looks the normal sort of grey / purple colour and you still can't tell if it's an old thread or not...

Anyone got any better ideas?

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geneman
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2005-09-27, 23:03

It was just an example
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curiousuburb
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2005-09-28, 04:28

These dates you speak of don't have some sort of numerical indicator of age in clear form?
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geneman
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2005-09-28, 09:55

Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousuburb
These dates you speak of don't have some sort of numerical indicator of age in clear form?
I have absolutely no idea, I just thought it would be nice IF it was possible.
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alcimedes
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2005-09-28, 10:26

The problem is (and I do this too) you start reading a thread that someone posted in today, and it's easy not to look at the date on the posts. Some kind of color indicator would be nice, although I'm not sure if it would be possible. If it's possible, it would have to look decent, but it's a good suggestion. I'll see what Brad or Gargoyle can come up with.

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curiousuburb
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2005-09-28, 10:36

Quote:
Originally Posted by geneman
I have absolutely no idea, I just thought it would be nice IF it was possible.
Sorry, I guess I forgot the <sarcasm> tags...

The information you want is there in the date if you look... it just isn't garishly bright and obvious.

As for indicating 'old' from current threads, I thought that's what the 'multiple page by date' forum listing offered... page 6 in AO is older threads than page 1. Unless there are multiple ways to sort threads and your settings are different somehow... last posting date is always listed... were you looking for another column listing first posting date?
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mattf
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2005-09-28, 11:13

Quote:
Originally Posted by alcimedes
The problem is (and I do this too) you start reading a thread that someone posted in today, and it's easy not to look at the date on the posts. Some kind of color indicator would be nice, although I'm not sure if it would be possible. If it's possible, it would have to look decent, but it's a good suggestion. I'll see what Brad or Gargoyle can come up with.
If a colour indicator on the whole thread isn't possible / would just get ignored because there are too many, what about just highlighting "old" dates with another colour? "Old" could be system and / or user-definable.

Or some other visual indicator. Hey! You could wrap the date field in <blink> tags! That'd work!
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alcimedes
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2005-09-28, 11:32

Yeah, Gargoyle is working up something now. Good suggestion. We'll see how it works out visually.
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Gargoyle
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2005-09-28, 12:16

Brad, this means changing some of the vb code. I'll PM you the details.
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geneman
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2005-09-28, 14:18

Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousuburb
Sorry, I guess I forgot the <sarcasm> tags...

The information you want is there in the date if you look... it just isn't garishly bright and obvious.
I see, I thought you were being techie, as in the dates needs to be numbers that can be subtracted or something (yeah I don't know much about programming)

Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousuburb
As for indicating 'old' from current threads, I thought that's what the 'multiple page by date' forum listing offered... page 6 in AO is older threads than page 1. Unless there are multiple ways to sort threads and your settings are different somehow... last posting date is always listed... were you looking for another column listing first posting date?
As for the second part I think your misunderstanding. When someone else posts in an old thread it gets bumped to page 1, and I start reading it as if it was new.

"What can be asserted without evidence, can also be dismissed without evidence." - C. Hitchens
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Brad
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2005-09-28, 14:29

I don't think this is such a great idea. Sure, it may possibly help to notify people of post ages (if they don't look now, what makes you think a color change will help?), but that will also discourage people from legitimately reusing existing threads. If these are new users anyway, how do you expect them to know what a differently-colored means in the first place? Should we mar the forums with bright, bold reds or use the hideous blink tag or something equally as distracting in a desperate attempt to get these users' attention? If we implement something more subtle, how can we expect the users to notice the difference at all? I think it would be a wasted effort and would only serve to potentially uglify old threads.

Honestly, I think some people are way making too big of a deal about newbies resurrecting old threads; I've deleted posts from some users that were being overly critical about bumping threads. I don't like that. Is posting in old threads really such a crime? Heck, users are following our own guidelines when they reuse old threads. These people should be commended for searching before posting, not condemned for it.

It doesn't hurt anyone or anything to bring back old threads. What's really wrong with people starting back up an old discussion? I can think of nothing off the top of my head, aside from potentially offering out-of-date technical information. That problem would easily be resolved in one or two more replies anyway and would serve to better inform future users that search for the same subject and find the same thread. Also, if this helps to foster in further discussion about a subject that was once forgotten, I'd say reusing old threads like this is actually a good thing.

If anything needs to change, I think it's the smug attitude that some older members have over new members. I'm not directing that comment at anyone here in particular, but to the AppleNova membership in general. A lot of AN members are great and helpful at helping new users, but that's not always the case with everyone.

I vote nay.



My 2 cents.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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geneman
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2005-09-28, 14:36

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
I don't think this is such a great idea. Sure, it may possibly help to notify people of post ages (if they don't look now, what makes you think a color change will help?), but that will also discourage people from legitimately reusing existing threads. If these are new users anyway, how do you expect them to know what a differently-colored means in the first place? Should we mar the forums with bright, bold reds or use the hideous blink tag or something equally as distracting in a desperate attempt to get these users' attention? If we implement something more subtle, how can we expect the users to notice the difference at all? I think it would be a wasted effort and would only serve to potentially uglify old threads.

Honestly, I think some people are way making too big of a deal about newbies resurrecting old threads; I've deleted posts from some users that were being overly critical about bumping threads. I don't like that. Is posting in old threads really such a crime? Heck, users are following our own guidelines when they reuse old threads. These people should be commended for searching before posting, not condemned for it.

It doesn't hurt anyone or anything to bring back old threads. What's really wrong with people starting back up an old discussion? I can think of nothing off the top of my head, aside from potentially offering out-of-date technical information. That problem would easily be resolved in one or two more replies anyway and would serve to better inform future users that search for the same subject and find the same thread. Also, if this helps to foster in further discussion about a subject that was once forgotten, I'd say reusing old threads like this is actually a good thing.

If anything needs to change, I think it's the smug attitude that some older members have over new members. I'm not directing that comment at anyone here in particular, but to the AppleNova membership in general. A lot of AN members are great and helpful at helping new users, but that's not always the case with everyone.

I vote nay.



My 2 cents.
Your completly misunderstanding my intensions here!

I actually promote the use of existing threads, and this is supposed to help that along. My point is that when I or someone else posts in an existing thread, many readers, regulars and newbies, will read the first post but may never get to the last post where a new question is being posed.

As in you read the first few posts find the initial question has been answered and skip the rest, however a new question may have been posed in the end of the thread and it will be missed, indulging the poster to start a new thread or bump said thread.

"What can be asserted without evidence, can also be dismissed without evidence." - C. Hitchens
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Brad
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2005-09-28, 14:51

Quote:
Originally Posted by geneman
As in you read the first few posts find the initial question has been answered and skip the rest, however a new question may have been posed in the end of the thread and it will be missed, indulging the poster to start a new thread or bump said thread.
And how will changing a date's color or adding a little "old" mark make any difference here? Whether a thread is old or new is irrelevant in many cases like what you describe. With both old threads and new threads, members of all types often skip the bulk of the thread anyway. Some threads that have ballooned to ten or more pages long are especially susceptible to this problem; no one cares enough to read anything beyond the first or last few posts; so, questions and points get repeated a dozen times over.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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geneman
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2005-09-28, 17:09

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
And how will changing a date's color or adding a little "old" mark make any difference here? Whether a thread is old or new is irrelevant in many cases like what you describe. With both old threads and new threads, members of all types often skip the bulk of the thread anyway. Some threads that have ballooned to ten or more pages long are especially susceptible to this problem; no one cares enough to read anything beyond the first or last few posts; so, questions and points get repeated a dozen times over.
Having an 'old mark' can direct the reader to the recent posts rather than reading the older (obsolete?) ones or at least make the reader aware that the thread has been inactive for some time.

This is not meant to eliminate repetition, rather to avoid having people miss new questions in old threads.

"What can be asserted without evidence, can also be dismissed without evidence." - C. Hitchens
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Windswept
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2005-09-28, 18:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
Is posting in old threads really such a crime? Heck, users are following our own guidelines when they reuse old threads. These people should be commended for searching before posting, not condemned for it.

It doesn't hurt anyone or anything to bring back old threads. What's really wrong with people starting back up an old discussion? [...snip...]Also, if this helps to foster in further discussion about a subject that was once forgotten, I'd say reusing old threads like this is actually a good thing.
Yeah. I, for one, *love* some of our old threads. Our archives are positively crammed full of great stuff. Occasionally, I'll forage around in there and do some reading. Brings back lots of good memories, some terrifically interesting topics/posts, some great laughs, and many (forgotten) personal insights into our AN friends.

But, yes, I have from time to time witnessed the (usually mild) abuse applied to members who bump old threads. In fact, I always feel a certain amount of trepidation myself when I resurrect a past discussion that I want to update. Glad you think 'updating' is okay, Brad, and I'm glad this conversation has occurred, because I plan to bump some old threads in the near future. heh

Oh, and geneman, there have been plenty of times that I have read a 'bumped' thread without realizing that it was old until the very end. In every case, I was always glad the thread had resurfaced, and didn't feel I had wasted my time in reading it.

Actually, a few of our threads are purposely set up to go on for months and months - like the "mock-up" and "what are you listening to" threads.

After you have been here for a while, you will automatically recognize bumped threads. Until then, you could tape a note to your screen reminding you to check the date on the first post of every thread, so you can avoid reading old material, if that is what you wish.

When I first arrived at AppleInsider, back in Nov. of 2003 (I think), I contacted the mods because I thought having avatars would make it easier to find certain people's posts in long threads. I can't remember which mod/admin responded to me, but they were very polite - which is amazing, because avatars seem to be uniformly loathed in these communities. I loathe them now too. Funny how that works.
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curiousuburb
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2005-09-28, 18:43

Or people could stop being lazy and read the whole thread, perhaps taking the microsecond extra it requires to notice the date of the posts if it winds them up to read 'old' info (which often addresses their points anyway).

We have some very intelligent members in this community, some of whom provide valuable technical info, unique cultural perspectives, or heartfelt peeks behind their mental curtains. I often find myself learning new things and appreciating the time and effort members put into relating stories about their experiences.

Just because the impatient want to skim to the ending expecting the crib sheet condensed worldview doesn't mean we should oblige everybody with a limited attention span and skip the germaine content folks put their feelings and fingers into crafting.

It's a bulletin board... if you want to understand, take the time to read.

It's a community... if you want to participate, respect folks enough to listen/absorb.

In both cases, you'll probably get better treatment if you put in some effort first.

I'd bet a good proportion of the snippy responses from senior members towards newbies who post the obvious is in frustration over the needless repetition that a little more patience and thorough research would prevent.

Damn slackers...

</petpeeve>

Last edited by curiousuburb : 2005-09-28 at 18:54.
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Brad
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2005-09-28, 18:46

Quote:
Originally Posted by Windswept
When I first arrived at AppleInsider, back in Nov. of 2003 (I think), I contacted the mods because I thought having avatars would make it easier to find certain people's posts in long threads. I can't remember which mod/admin responded to me, but they were very polite - which is amazing, because avatars seem to be uniformly loathed in these communities. I loathe them now too. Funny how that works.
Just keep looking at the center of the spiral, Carol. Listen and focus on my voice as you relax, deep and deeper, into a state of...




The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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Brad
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2005-09-28, 18:53

Quote:
Originally Posted by geneman
Having an 'old mark' can direct the reader to the recent posts rather than reading the older (obsolete?) ones or at least make the reader aware that the thread has been inactive for some time.
Here's the catch, though:

If a member has read the thread and remembers what was said, he'll likely just skip to the end with or without markers.

If a member hasn't read the thread or doesn't remember the content, putting markers on posts to label them as "old" is likely to make him skip over those posts and jump forward to the latest additions. However, that defeats the whole purpose of putting any newer replies in the old thread! The old material is still relevant regardless of age; so, new visitors should read it and not skip over it.

If it's a case where the old material is not relevant or is out of date, the new post(s)/reply(ies) deserve a thread of their own anyway and should duly be split off by the next mod/admin that sees it.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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geneman
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2005-09-28, 22:17

I concede

I still think it's a good idea though (I have to, right ).

Brad, you make a good point in your last post, however it's not a perfect world, we don't always have time to read *everything* (as you actually pointed out in an earlier post)... Also, I didn't mean to bash the old content, but sometimes, and especially in PA, what was sound advice a year ago may not be so any more.

In conclusion, I'll try to look at the f...ing date, ok?

"What can be asserted without evidence, can also be dismissed without evidence." - C. Hitchens
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alcimedes
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2005-09-28, 23:35

Dunno, I'd still like to see what it would look like to have dates over a certain age accentuated to make it easier for readers to know the post is over x months old. I know I'm guilty of reading through a thread and not noticing the dates were from a year ago this month as opposed to this month.

Don't see what it would really hurt, as long as it could be done without ruining the look of the boards.

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