[Brave Ulysses]

Originally Posted by Windswept To think that we had a *huge* surplus under Clinton.

Do did a million start up dot com companies.

[Enki]

Originally Posted by Windswept To think that we had a *huge* surplus under Clinton.

There never is any "real" surplus. There was a projected future surplus given all the givens at the time the projection was made. Then Congress decides to spend more money and the 9-11 economy-hit happens. Bye-bye projected-never-really-there surplus.


Doesn't matter who's in office, nature abhors a vacuum and there is no stronger vacuum than the pull for a government to spend more money when they think they have it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, a Federal suplus does not mean that the U.S. did not carry significant debt.

But still, Wikipedia says that Clinton presided over a time with a balanced budget and Federal surplus, but when I went to one of the references given for that specific statement, it didn't even mention anything about a surplus. I've had this problem before, with references not backing up statements in Wikipedia. Why do they even bother with references? Yeah, I know, to make them seem more scholarly. I've read people write that even though Wikipedia can be questionable, they believe articles that are well referenced.

[Moogs]

Careful, lest people start getting deficits, the national debt and balanced budgets confused. The bottom line is Clinton did enough good to more or less pull the government out of a huge hole. Then Bush and Co threw us right back in, which is the usual way with Republicans of all stripes. They go ape-shit on military spending and every other kind of business interest (which, depending on the administration and what the business interests are, isn't always bad)... but then they don't tax (the people most able to afford it) enough to cover all their spending, then they point fingers.

But I digress. I don't doubt that we borrow money from China but usually with these sorts of arrangements there's some sort of benefit going the other way. I really doubt we went into such arrangements without significant leverage of some kind. Still a bad deal but I'm afraid governments borrowing money is nothing new.

[Moogs]

Temporarily replace "Industry" with "Government" in the title...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7046445.stm

Beijing has strongly urged US President George W Bush to cancel a planned meeting with the Dalai Lama, saying it would "seriously damage" relations. Mr Bush is due to host Tibet's spiritual leader at the White House. On Wednesday, Mr Bush is due to attend a ceremony at the US Capitol where the Dalai Lama will receive a Congressional Gold Medal, a top US civilian award. It will be the first time a sitting president will have appeared in public with the 72-year-old Buddhist leader. Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Liu Jianchao said: "We would like to again prompt the American side to correct the mistakes and to cancel the arrangements." The White House has said Mr Bush understands Beijing's concerns, but hopes the Chinese leaders could get to know that the Dalai Lama was someone who wants peace. Tuesday's White House meeting will be the third encounter between the US president and the Dalai Lama since Mr Bush took office in January 2001. But the meeting is expected to take place in the White House residence rather than the Oval Office out of deference to China. Chinese officials in Tibet expressed fury at the announcement of the Congressional award. Tibet's Communist Party Secretary of Tibet, Zhang Qingli, lambasted the exiled spiritual leader for trying to "split the motherland". "We are furious," he said. "If the Dalai Lama can receive such an award, there must be no justice or good people in the world." The Dalai Lama has lived in exile in India since a failed uprising against Chinese rule in 1959.

Oh the horrors of that virulent state terrorist the Dali Lama! Clearly the world has gone to hell that another government would entertain a completely non-violent, benevolent figure like the Dali Lama. Outrage I tell you!!

There are certain breeds of politician in the world (party aside) that need to be wiped off the face of the planet. Nothing is worse than phony, righteous indignation on the part of politicians. Phony outrage from politicians makes me want to puke. Because of what a sure sign it is that millions of people are being misrepresented and their trust abused on a daily basis by said person. Phony smiles and handshakes are one thing, phony promises another... but phony / baseless outrage makes me want to put a bullet between their eyes.

I understand the party forbids supporting such things, so be against something if you want, but at least have enough professionalism and common sense to not make child-like statements about how terrible the entire world must be, because one unassuming, benevolent person is meeting with one government. It's like their party leaders are made up of 8 year olds or something. That, or they're leading people who have the mentality of 8 year olds, and so such tricks work to influence them. Ah, the power of brainwashing from an early age. Knows no bounds.

[Capella]

That's a pretty scary statement. They really do sound childish for complaining that he's receiving an award. They can have a problem with it all that want, but to basically say "omg the world is so unfair and everyone hates us!!1111" for honoring someone peaceful and non-violent is ridiculous.

[Luca]

Mm! Good news. I see this as a "just right" sized step towards setting a good example for China and giving them a little kick in the right direction. I've talked about this issue before - some people want to let China stay exactly how it is and hope that they change everything themselves, while others think we should do all sorts of crap to threaten or force them into bending to our own philosophies. Giving this medal to the Dalai Lama is the Goldilocks-sized gesture that infuriates the Chinese government and makes them look like fools in front of the whole world.

It's definitely important to apply steady pressure on China, because they're not going to arrive at human rights and a government of the people on their own, but if we get too militant, it does more harm than good.

So yeah, basically any action that makes Beijing squirm is ace in my view, especially if that action represents the moral high ground.

[Moogs]

This is getting f-ing ridiculous. The government needs to step in at this point and enforce a moratorium on Chinese toys and ingestible products (toothpaste, dog food, et al). To hell with short-term profits... these assholes need to see that they will lose their shirt if they continue this way. And American companies need to be forced to look at this from a perspective other than low cost, high margin. They're obviously not doing it themselves... sometimes a little government intervention is needed to right the market.

Originally Posted by CNN U.S. safety officials have recalled about 4.2 million Chinese-made Aqua Dots bead toys that contain a chemical that has caused some children to vomit and become comatose after swallowing them. art.bindeez.toy.jpg Bindeez, which were named Australia's toy of the year, contain a chemical that converts into a "date rape" drug. Scientists have found the popular toy's coating contains a chemical that, once metabolized, converts into the toxic "date rape" drug GHB, or gamma-hydroxy butyrate, U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission spokesman Scott Wolfson told CNN. "GHB is this drug that in low doses actually causes euphoria," said Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN's chief medical correspondent. "In higher doses, it can cause people to go into a coma. It can cause seizures. It can cause something known as hypotonia, where all your muscles just become very flaccid. "And it can cause people to become amnestic, meaning they forget everything that's about to happen to them, which is why it became a date-rape drug," Gupta said. "So this is nasty stuff, and it appears that the chemical is actually converting into it in the body." The arts and craft beads, aimed at children 4 years and older, have been selling since April at major U.S. retail stores as "Aqua Dots" and in Australia under the name "Bindeez Beads."

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by Moogs This is getting f-ing ridiculous. The government needs to step in at this point and enforce a moratorium on Chinese toys and ingestible products (toothpaste, dog food, et al). To hell with short-term profits... these assholes need to see that they will lose their shirt if they continue this way. And American companies need to be forced to look at this from a perspective other than low cost, high margin. They're obviously not doing it themselves... sometimes a little government intervention is needed to right the market.

Dude, you are so wrong! Can you imagine how Aqua Dots are going to help all those lonely fellers that need a little lovin'?

That this debate is still rolling after so long is a clear indication that we have a major problem. This crap should have ended long ago. Obviously, the Chinese gubment didn't kill the right guy! It would appear that that action was intended to make us "go away"!

Bah! I can't say anything nice, so…

[cosus]

You have to realize we're brought up in an land where we value life. Many people find life to be cheap yet another commodity. While we might find this wrong and disgusting, they just find it normal. Think of it as a man who commits suicide for the insurance money, obviously he puts value on his life. A coal miner sacrifices health for money. Some might just a little less value.

[Moogs]

Bumpity bump.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7239829.stm

Chinese Military Industrial Complex after 'merican secrets. I hope there is a bold move in our MIC to *gasp* profile Chinese applicants who might want to work in sensitive areas of Boeing, General Dynamics, et al... to make sure they're not, ya know... likely to start spying or some far-flung idea like that!! Spying... I mean RLY! Whoda thunk it? Next thing you know someone's going to suggest Indians or Pakistani engineers might spy too, and not just for military secrets but industrial ones. YA RIGHT!

[iFerret]

I'm just going to go ahead and say "I told you so". All my life, I've maintained the China was a problem - the firewall, Tibet, crappy manufacturing, government, military.

All this just proves my point.

I don't have anything against Chinese people on the basis of race, but seriously. China's causing too many problems to be worth it now.

[zsummers]

Originally Posted by Moogs Bumpity bump. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7239829.stm Chinese Military Industrial Complex after 'merican secrets. I hope there is a bold move in our MIC to *gasp* profile Chinese applicants who might want to work in sensitive areas of Boeing, General Dynamics, et al... to make sure they're not, ya know... likely to start spying or some far-flung idea like that!! Spying... I mean RLY! Whoda thunk it? Next thing you know someone's going to suggest Indians or Pakistani engineers might spy too, and not just for military secrets but industrial ones. YA RIGHT!

You think this is scary? I'll show you scary. The Chinese are teaching their lions to ride horses:





Think of the military possibilities of leading a lion-on-horse calvary into battle! We're all dead, I tells ya, dead. Can you imagine the fight this thing would have with gorillas with laser beams?

The only thing scarier is a shark riding an elephant. If that happens, you'll rue the day you were born.

[scratt]

Originally Posted by iFerret I'm just going to go ahead and say "I told you so". All my life, I've maintained the China was a problem - the firewall, Tibet, crappy manufacturing, government, military. All this just proves my point. I don't have anything against Chinese people on the basis of race, but seriously. China's causing too many problems to be worth it now.

Get used to it. They are at the head of the New World order.
Frankly they've caused me less problems this year than the US has.

And you can forget your iPods and iPhones, and portable Macs, and just about most of the stuff we like if China wasn't willing to make them at the price, and in the conditions that they do......

But I must admit those Special Forces Lions are a bit of a worry!

[Moogs]

Originally Posted by zsummers You think this is scary? I'll show you scary. The Chinese are teaching their lions to ride horses:

Seriously that is kind of fucked up.

In general the Chinese don't seem to have the same respect for nature or obtaining a balance with nature, compared to the Japanese and other Asian cultures, though I could be wrong there. I don't know that much about traditional Chinese culture WRT to nature. Just a few anecedotal readings and documentary type shows I've seen give some indication that nature is something to be harnessed to the Chinese, not something to be respected or strike a balance with....

[Mugge]

That pony looks kinda scared don't ya' think?

Guess they have to keep the lion well fed, if they want to keep the pony.

[Taskiss]

Originally Posted by Mugge That pony looks kinda scared don't ya' think? Guess they have to keep the lion well fed, if they want to keep the pony.

That's the true measure of the Chinese methodology. Making a lion ride a horse isn't so much - making the horse perform while being ridden by a lion - THAT'S the trick!

Even if they would save the horse from an attack, trust me - a horse wouldn't do that twice. They're dumb as a box of rocks, totally bizarre.. they form habits very quick and never let go. If they shy away from a snake on a path, they'll have a problem running down that path forever. Oh, you'll get to the point where you THINK they won't shy but then the light shines just right... the breeze blows from just the right direction ... and there'll you'll be, face first in the dirt and the horse running at right angles to where you thought he's be running.

[iFerret]

The US is another nation that causes problems for me too, btw Scratt.

Maybe I just don't like foreign countries...

That lion on a pony is just freaky.

[Swox]

Sharks riding elephants... LOL

I just have to register my complaint (and duck the impending flames) that our beloved Apple products are (so far as I know) made in China. I know, this is just the way things are with world production of computer components, etc., but that don't mean I gotta like it!

[Moogs]

Like old times...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7628125.stm

[Windswept]

Originally Posted by Moogs Like old times... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7628125.stm

What's so interesting about this story is that now the Chinese people 'themselves' are outraged about the criminal practices of these greedy manufacturers.

My impression 'before' is that the Chinese people were offended at the whole world coming down on their terrible products. Now they are feeling the sting themselves, are voicing their panic and outrage, and the media feel free enough to publish what is going on, both with the health scandal itself, and the people's anguish as well.

In a land where only one child is allowed to parents, it's even more dastardly that these truly evil manufacturers would put melamine in baby milk (not only depriving infants of essential protein, but substituting it with actual poison!), possibly damaging those babies' kidneys for the rest of their lives.

So unbelievably sad.

[Luca]

Originally Posted by Moogs Like old times... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7628125.stm

No kidding.

*facepalm*

Fucking China. Oh well, maybe they execute some people over this.

[Moogs]

...and the hits just keep on coming!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7701477.stm

[Luca]

Oh wow.

Well, look at it this way - at least some of the people responsible for this will likely be executed.

[Moogs]

One wonders what kind of health crisis China will face in about 10-15 years / what kind of cancer rates will emerge.

[billybobsky]

God damn it.

All I want from China is acetonitrile. For christ's sake, read the medical literature from the 1950s, stop adding the toxins that were found ineffective as sources of nutrients, and make me some acetonitrile.

[Swox]

Originally Posted by billybobsky God damn it. All I want from China is acetonitrile. For christ's sake, read the medical literature from the 1950s, stop adding the toxins that were found ineffective as sources of nutrients, and make me some acetonitrile.

Nerd