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Moogs
Hates the Infotainment
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
 
2012-09-10, 09:00

The last bastion of privacy in our world (our own back yards) is now officially toast if it wasn't already, with the advent of powerful camera phones that can zoom from a reasonable distance. Introducing: privately owned drones for under $500 that record HD video. I expect them to become more powerful, cheaper and harder to spot in a very short time.

http://ardrone2.parrot.com/

It's always been possible to spy on someone if you're a determined individual, but this basically puts surveillance capabilities (or will as smaller, quieter, more powerful versions become available to the public) into the hands of any nosy neighbor or schmuck you have a dispute with. They'll be able to sit in a car 200 yards away and record through windows or over pools or whatever with impunity. Luckily my neighbor is the one with the pool and teenage daughter so the punks will be drawn to them and not recording my dogs crapping in the yard (about the only thing that goes on short of my mowing it). Still, the principle of the thing bugs me.

I'm going to add to my political platform a new statute: "private residential property extends to 350 feet above the ground" (apartment type dwellings and dwellings near airport runways not withstanding). Make it high enough that any video you get is worthless. The scarier part of this is that today's teen-to-20-something generations have very little respect for personal privacy or concept of it (including their own), having grown up in a world of camera phones and seeing every kid's blunders on YouTube and every piece of gossip on FB. So something like this is not a big deal to them. In fact no privacy invasion is a big deal to them because they don't identify with the concept.

Who wants to help me develop a non-lethal gun that can shoot these down up to 500 ft? Maybe it could be a wireless jamming gun to kill the flight signals, "fire" and watch the thing plummet and crater. A good baseball bat or shovel will handle the rest.

...into the light of a dark black night.
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alcimedes
I shot the sherrif.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Send a message via ICQ to alcimedes  
2012-09-10, 10:13

Actually, I think this is great. the only thing I'm hoping is that it pushes the ACLU and general public to re-legislate personal privacy in the digital age. Shit has gotten out of hand. If drones had stayed Govt. only there would never be restrictions.

All we need to do now is get some private citizens to start following the friends and families of powerful politicians and this shit could be outlawed in just a few years.

*note* be sure to follow friends and family of party leaders of both major parties, no favorites!

Google is your frenemy.
Caveat Emptor - Latin for tough titty
I tend to interpret things in the way that's most hilarious to me
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drewprops
Space Pirate
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2012-09-10, 11:26

That's right, people. Don't play favorites!

...
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Moogs
Hates the Infotainment
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
 
2012-09-10, 11:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by alcimedes View Post
Actually, I think this is great. the only thing I'm hoping is that it pushes the ACLU and general public to re-legislate personal privacy in the digital age. Shit has gotten out of hand. If drones had stayed Govt. only there would never be restrictions.

All we need to do now is get some private citizens to start following the friends and families of powerful politicians and this shit could be outlawed in just a few years.

*note* be sure to follow friends and family of party leaders of both major parties, no favorites!
I had a similar thought: that this will get abused and quickly end up an issue in high courts, and also that as long as the gub'mint has them, we might as well too. But still plenty of room for civilian abuse.

...into the light of a dark black night.
  quote
Moogs
Hates the Infotainment
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
 
2012-09-10, 11:50

And then there's the good side of everyone having a video camera in their phone: catching crooked cops red-handed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/ny...s-suit.html?hp

No wonder now people are being arrested just for photographing or video recording police officers standing in public spaces. Welcome to Orwell's nightmare. Probably the only good thing that came out of Occupy was that it raised some people's awareness of ignorant and abusive law enforcement officers. This is what happens when flag-waving idiots run the media and christen all police officers "first responder heroes". They're not all heroes. Not even close, not in NY, not anywhere else.

Just as many meatheads who had trouble graduating high school, join the military because they don't know what else to do, many meatheads join the police force as well. No one likes to acknowledge that little factoid though; sounds too un-American and unsympathetic to the victims of 9/11. Typical of America's black and white outlook on everything. A few dozen first responders earn the title, and we give the rest a free credit.

...into the light of a dark black night.
  quote
kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2012-09-10, 12:31

That Clinton business would have been a whole lot more fun had someone had one of these things parked outside the window to the Oval Office.

And, since we're not playing favorites:

We could have counted the lines rolling up ol' George's nose!

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Mat 5:9)
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2012-09-10, 12:55

Privacy is an illusion, if someone wants to find something out about you they will, with or without flying video cameras.
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kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2012-09-10, 13:18

True dat!
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Mugge
Thunderbolt, fuck yeah!
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Denmark
 
2012-09-10, 14:13

Maybe there will soon be a market for back yard flak-bots? Or maybe little RC intercepter drones that you can have fun with, shooting down the paparazzi while making the most of your 2nd amendment rights?

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murbot
Hoonigan
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Canada
 
2012-09-10, 14:42

I'll sit out a few revisions. 160 foot range? Weak. Also there is no quick release net large enough to hold eggs. (or a few roaches and condom wrappers... I see potential in evidence planting)
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Moogs
Hates the Infotainment
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
 
2012-09-10, 15:53

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Privacy is an illusion, if someone wants to find something out about you they will, with or without flying video cameras.
Well that's what I was saying but this tech will make it a lot easier for the average, non-resourceful schmuck to spy on people vs. someone with real computer / surveillance / etc skills. And either way, it shouldn't be an illusion. If it is then we need to fix things so it's no longer an illusion. Which hopefully all the privacy we've lost in recent years will eventually spur some legal cases that puts this discussion front and center.

...into the light of a dark black night.
  quote
kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2012-09-10, 15:56

Simple solution: If you're going to beat your dog, don't do it in the back yard.
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alcimedes
I shot the sherrif.
 
Join Date: May 2004
Send a message via ICQ to alcimedes  
2012-09-10, 16:06

How long until the civilian predator drone has thermal imaging cameras on it? Boom, now we're looking inside your house.
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curiousuburb
Antimatter Man
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: that interweb thing
 
2012-09-10, 17:09

And I just rewatched Blue Thunder on teevee last week...
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kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2012-09-10, 17:13

Quote:
Originally Posted by alcimedes View Post
How long until the civilian predator drone has thermal imaging cameras on it? Boom, now we're looking inside your house.
I was thinking fruit cellar…buried under concrete. What, you don't have one of these in the back yard?
  quote
PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2012-09-10, 17:15

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
I was thinking fruit cellar…buried under concrete. What, you don't have one of these in the back yard?
Two words, bunker buster. Oh wait those are bombs.
  quote
Moogs
Hates the Infotainment
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
 
2012-09-11, 12:47

Here's an interesting look at how technology encourages some people to put other people's privacy on the line for their own purposes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19546096

...into the light of a dark black night.
  quote
ThunderPoit
Making sawdust
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
 
2012-09-11, 13:07

if thermal imaging can see you through walls, youve got bigger problems
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Moogs
Hates the Infotainment
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
 
2012-09-11, 14:17

Yah but I'm not aware of high powered thermal imaging cameras available to the public for cheap. Did I miss something? I think alcimedes' point earlier was mostly hypothetical / looking forward.

kscherer: missed your comment from before, very funny wise-ass. Anyone who would spy on me must be bored out of their minds because my life is about as suburban vanilla as it gets, but it's the principles at stake that matter for all of us. Will the younger generation coming up protect privacy rights with any consistency, given all their social habits and penchant for favoring technology advances above all else? My guess is no. They won't because they don't value it.

...into the light of a dark black night.
  quote
ThunderPoit
Making sawdust
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
 
2012-09-11, 14:35

I was making light of the fact that, being a fellow Minnesotan, walls so thin that thermal cameras can see through them would make for a very cold winter.
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kscherer
Which way is up?
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2012-09-11, 14:40

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
Two words, bunker buster. Oh wait those are bombs.
Here I thought it was a drink!
  quote
Moogs
Hates the Infotainment
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
 
2012-09-11, 15:05

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderPoit View Post
I was making light of the fact that, being a fellow Minnesotan, walls so thin that thermal cameras can see through them would make for a very cold winter.
"I see," says the blind man. And I agree with you.

Actually that's an interesting point. I assume drywall is the easiest thing for thermal imaging cameras to compromise. How does it handle real wood paneled walls (effectively drywall + wood), brick and stuff like that? I assume it can't do much of anything with brick unless you're talking high end military tech, which ain't going to be on the street anytime soon.

...into the light of a dark black night.
  quote
ThunderPoit
Making sawdust
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
 
2012-09-11, 15:42

it really wouldnt take much to block a thermal camera. The camera itself doesnt do anything to see through things. It can only see through a barrier if the object behind it is hot enough to heat through the barrier. Its like pointing a flashlight at a sheet of paper, you can see the projection of the light easily.
Now shine the same flashlight at cardboard, you'll see nothing.
  quote
Moogs
Hates the Infotainment
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
 
2012-09-11, 16:54

Right. I thought there were some cameras that were way more sensitive to minute changes in heat though. Although when it comes to brick / concrete that probably counts for nada.

...into the light of a dark black night.
  quote
addison
Formerly “AWM”
 
Join Date: May 2009
 
2012-09-13, 10:51

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moogs View Post
And then there's the good side of everyone having a video camera in their phone: catching crooked cops red-handed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/ny...s-suit.html?hp

No wonder now people are being arrested just for photographing or video recording police officers standing in public spaces. Welcome to Orwell's nightmare. Probably the only good thing that came out of Occupy was that it raised some people's awareness of ignorant and abusive law enforcement officers. This is what happens when flag-waving idiots run the media and christen all police officers "first responder heroes". They're not all heroes. Not even close, not in NY, not anywhere else.
The NJ chapter of the ACLU has an app for android that allows you to discretely record an interaction with police. There is supposed to be an iphone version but who knows if Apple will allow it. It might be too controversial for them. They keep rejecting this cool little app that notifies you when there has been a drone attack somewhere. It just shows pins on a map and pulls the info from news sources but it keeps getting denied for different reasons. Pretty pathetic.
  quote
Moogs
Hates the Infotainment
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
 
2012-09-13, 11:39

Embarrassing that Apple would not allow that type of app. Who can it hurt? No one except public servants who are charged with doing their jobs responsibly but fail to do so. Shows you how closely tied corporate interests and government interests really are.

...into the light of a dark black night.
  quote
noone
Awaiting Email Confirmation
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
 
2012-09-14, 04:05

It's not just plain privacy that's at stake here - what about someone who wants to burgle your home? All they need to do is put a drone there and watch whether anyone is around, to look where the weak entry points are (well, Google Maps satellite view does that for them), and when they break in, leave the drone in the street to let them know if you (or the police) are arriving ... I love the future!
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Moogs
Hates the Infotainment
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NSA Archives
 
2012-09-14, 14:48

Yah I suppose but really that's no different than having a spotter sitting in a car down the street, waiting for you to leave to pick up the kids or whatever. Seems like an impractical use for a drone that might only be able to stay airborne for 30-60 minutes or something (I didn't check the duration). I say tackle the big problem first. Brad, have you finished the design blue-prints on an anti-drone EMP gun that won't also kill every electrical thing within 300 meters?

I think the time has come for EMP guns that you can point at individual machines or homes and disable only those. I'd pay 3 grand for one... right now. Wouldn't blink an eye. Think of the fun you could have with d-bag neighbors. Right when they're heading to the big game.... bzzzzt!

Which begs the question, if an EMP pulse type thing hit a person, would it go through them without harming them or would it be like one of those military "non-lethal" microwave guns that heats your skin or makes you puke?

...into the light of a dark black night.
  quote
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