[PB PM]

Originally Posted by kscherer I suspect that in 3-5 years we will begin seeing $700 MB Airs, $500 Mac Minis, and $1000 iMacs—all running Apple Silicon.

Don’t count on it. Apple wants to appear as a premium brand and I doubt they have any intention of changing that. Refurbished models, sure, new, doubt it.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by PB PM Don’t count on it. Apple wants to appear as a premium brand and I doubt they have any intention of changing that. Refurbished models, sure, new, doubt it.

They do have $400 iPhones SE and the $329 iPad, so… maybe? But if so, it’s not clear to me what kept them from doing it in the Intel era.

[PB PM]

I could see Apple keeping previous generation machines around as budget offering, like the used to do with the iPhone, but that seems unlikely given the current globe production shortages. If they did, after a M2 Mac Mini comes out the M1 Mac Mini sticks around at $599 or something like that. Still seems very unlikely.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by PB PM I could see Apple keeping previous generation machines around as budget offering, like the used to do with the iPhone, but that seems unlikely given the current globe production shortages. If they did, after a M2 Mac Mini comes out the M1 Mac Mini sticks around at $599 or something like that. Still seems very unlikely.

Yeah, leaving aside the shortage, I do think

1) M1 MacBook Air starts at $849
2) M2 MacBook Air starts at $1099 for a while

is plausible.

I don't think they'll introduce new models at significantly lower price points, no. We might like that, but with the revenue growths they've seen with the Mac, what's their incentive? Financially, the Mac is doing better than ever!

[Frank777]

Starting to sound like the M2 Pro for the higher-end Mac Mini isn't even baked yet.

Which likely means few Mac updates between now and October/November?

[kscherer]

There will be a 24" M2 iMac and Mac mini very soon. M2 Pro chips are not very important in those spaces. A larger iMac with an M2 Pro/Max option seems obvious, but the Mini? Why on Earth would I shell out $1500-ish for an M2 Pro Mac mini with 16GB/256 when another $500 gets me a Studio with 32GB/512, more ports, and a faster chipset?

What Apple does not need is another no-man's land computer like the 13" MB Pro.

[chucker]

Mac mini and maybe iMac in fall. M2 Pro and .Max MBP in early spring 2023. Then at WWDC, they release the M2 Studio (that seems a bit early) and tease the M2 Quadgasm Mac Pro.

[Frank777]

Originally Posted by kscherer A larger iMac with an M2 Pro/Max option seems obvious, but the Mini? Why on Earth would I shell out $1500-ish for an M2 Pro Mac mini with 16GB/256 when another $500 gets me a Studio with 32GB/512, more ports, and a faster chipset? What Apple does not need is another no-man's land computer like the 13" MB Pro.

They're going to replace the Intel Mac Mini with something, right?

[chucker]

Originally Posted by Frank777 They're going to replace the Intel Mac Mini with something, right?

Given the existence of the Mac Studio and the mini case being long in the tooth, I think they’ll pull an Air instead. The $699 M1 mini sticks around. The M2 starts at $899. Upgrade it to 24 GiB RAM, and you’re at $1299. Make the SSD 512 GiB, and you’re at $1499. Or $1699 for 1 TiB. Throw in another $100 for 10 GigE if you care about that, and you’re close to “maybe I should get a Studio instead” territory.

If they do add the M2 Pro as an option, surely that’ll be another $200 if not more. Which raises the question: whom is that for? Wouldn’t they just get the Studio?

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by Frank777 They're going to replace the Intel Mac Mini with something, right?

Yes. It's called the Mac mini with M2.

The Intel version is only sticking around for Windows VM's.

Originally Posted by chucker Given the existence of the Mac Studio and the mini case being long in the tooth, I think they’ll pull an Air instead. The $699 M1 mini sticks around. The M2 starts at $899. Upgrade it to 24 GiB RAM, and you’re at $1299. Make the SSD 512 GiB, and you’re at $1499. Or $1699 for 1 TiB. Throw in another $100 for 10 GigE if you care about that, and you’re close to “maybe I should get a Studio instead” territory. If they do add the M2 Pro as an option, surely that’ll be another $200 if not more. Which raises the question: whom is that for? Wouldn’t they just get the Studio?

All of this except for the part in bold. I can see the price going up if they redesign the system entirely, but not just because they add the M2. The 13" Pro got the M2 but its price remained the same at $1299.

[turtle]

Originally Posted by kscherer Yes. It's called the Mac mini with M2. The Intel version is only sticking around for Windows VM's. ...

Yeah, slow adopters like me. If I could get ARM Windows 11 legit then I would likely be able to move most of my workflow to AS. For now, Intel it still is. I do remote into my "work computer" for now, but I would rather it be native. RDP is quirky.

For the other discussion points, a beefy mini is the Studio. I don't see anything with real muscle in the mini body. There will likely be some crossover on the high end of the mini, but that is because some want that footprint and think the Studio looks like Frankenstein's monster.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by kscherer I can see the price going up if they redesign the system entirely,

But that’s what I’m saying. Read the first sentence you’ve quoted — “the mini case being long in the tooth”. The Studio exists, and the existing mini is an old design. Thus, one avenue is to leave the old design around and offer a new one for $200 more. It helps fill the wide gap between the mini and Studio.

[kscherer]

Yes. That.

[Frank777]

Originally Posted by chucker Given the existence of the Mac Studio and the mini case being long in the tooth, I think they’ll pull an Air instead. The $699 M1 mini sticks around. The M2 starts at $899. Upgrade it to 24 GiB RAM, and you’re at $1299. Make the SSD 512 GiB, and you’re at $1499. Or $1699 for 1 TiB. Throw in another $100 for 10 GigE if you care about that, and you’re close to “maybe I should get a Studio instead” territory. If they do add the M2 Pro as an option, surely that’ll be another $200 if not more. Which raises the question: whom is that for? Wouldn’t they just get the Studio?

Good point I guess. I just assumed that Apple is always looking at economies of scale for their parts bin, and they deliberately eschewed the Pro chip for the Studio line. And they hardly ever break with their established pricing tiers.

So I just figured they would eventually be slotting in the Pro chip where the Intel Mini is.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by Frank777 So I just figured they would eventually be slotting in the Pro chip where the Intel Mini is.

I thought that before the Studio was introduced. Now I’m not so sure. Just not much of a gap left to fill.

[kscherer]

Apple is getting very good at filling every conceivable pricing tier, no matter the confusion it creates for customers.

The iPad line is a mess.

The iPhone line is a mess.

The MacBook line is a mess.

The desktop line is getting messy.

A Mini with a Pro chip at or near $1500 just fills another no-man's land that doesn't need to be filled with that computer. It needs to be filled with a 27"-ish iMac that offers up all the same specs as the 24", but with an M1 Pro option. Nothing else needs to happen in this space. At this point (with the existence of the Studio) the Mac mini no longer needs anything beyond RAM and storage options.

There are now three headless desktops that are quite well positioned in price and performance (the Mac Pro being the odd duck at this point). There is one solid all-in-one (with a need for a second with a larger screen). There are three laptops in 5 screen sizes and at least two that occupy the dreaded no-man's land (the M2 MacBook Air and the 13" MacBook Pro, with the Air being the better option). Don't get me started on iPads, and ugh to the iPhone's mess.

Consumer and Pro. Two screen sizes in each category, processor/RAM/storage options to match. Move on.

[chucker]

I don't think the iPhone is messy.

The iPad, well… I don't really understand why the Air exists. Why is it sometimes like the mini and sometimes like the Pro?

[Frank777]

Originally Posted by kscherer It needs to be filled with a 27"-ish iMac that offers up all the same specs as the 24", but with an M1 Pro option. Nothing else needs to happen in this space.

If Apple intro's a 27" iMac with an M2 Pro in the usual USD$1799+ price segment, what does that do to Studio sales?

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by chucker I don't think the iPhone is messy. The iPad, well… I don't really understand why the Air exists. Why is it sometimes like the mini and sometimes like the Pro?

The iPhone is messy because there are competing UI designs (Home button vs. Face ID) and there are 5 phone families in the lineup, with 5 screen sizes. Drop the iPhone 13 and rename the 11 "SE". The lineup is then iPhone 13 (drop the "Pro" BS), iPhone 12, and iPhone SE. Two screen sizes in each. Three phones to choose from, three different levels of performance, each has two screen sizes, and life is good .

And the iPad Air is not the problem. The iPad Pro 11" is the problem.

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by Frank777 If Apple intro's a 27" iMac with an M2 Pro in the usual USD$1799+ price segment, what does that do to Studio sales?

Has no effect. The Studio has no display, KB, MS, camera, speaker, mic, etc. Plus, the Studio is more powerful with superior upgrade options.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by kscherer The iPhone is messy because there are competing UI designs (Home button vs. Face ID)

*old man shakes fist at cloud* Touch ID is better. Maybe ultimately under-display Touch ID will win out. Move everything to the Home button-less, gesture focused design, but with a fingerprint sensor.

[quote=kscherer;825630] and there are 5 phone families in the lineup, with 5 screen sizes. Drop the iPhone 13 and rename the 11 "SE". The lineup is then iPhone 13 (drop the "Pro" BS), iPhone 12, and iPhone SE. Two screen sizes in each. Three phones to choose from, three different levels of performance, each has two screen sizes, and life is good .

I… disagree with most of this. There's the $400 SE, the $500 11, the $600 12 mini, the $700 12, and then the current models. None of those are bad phones (quite unlike the Apple Watch Series 3, which incredibly they are still selling as of today despite having announced weeks ago that it won't receive the next watchOS update!). Messy? Maybe. The SE is a bit of a different product; the others are simply older versions of the current lineup.

The Pro isn't BS at all, IMHO. If anything, expand on that. Make the Pro even more Pro. $200 more is a bit much, but having the Pro as an option? I think that's good. It adds telephoto, LiDAR, macro, ProMotion, ProRAW. Basically, a pro photography variant of the iPhone. Some of that will trickle down to the regular phones, and they'll add more high-end stuff in the meantime. I like that.

Makes far more sense to me than the 13-inch MacBook Pro.

Originally Posted by kscherer And the iPad Air is not the problem. The iPad Pro 11" is the problem.

Yeah, that I can see. Bump the iPads Pro to 13 and 15 and leave the Air at 11 and it's fine. Right now, it's dumb.

Originally Posted by kscherer Has no effect. The Studio has no display, KB, MS, camera, speaker, mic, etc. Plus, the Studio is more powerful with superior upgrade options.

Agreed. But still, I think it's weird that the Mac has far more desktops than laptops, even though laptops outsell desktops by, like, a factor of four.

[Frank777]

Originally Posted by chucker But still, I think it's weird that the Mac has far more desktops than laptops, even though laptops outsell desktops by, like, a factor of four.

What's weirder still is that rumours keep flying that the 27" iMac will return.

I still think the Intel Mini is still on sale because Apple is reluctant to fill that spot with an M2 Pro chip, for fear of cannibalizing the Studio.

But if we eventually get a two-chip Mac Mini line, Mac Studio line, iMac line and an uber-expensive Mac Pro line, there's a ton of desktop overlap.

And as chucker mentioned, it's weird to have so many desktop options and we can't even get a larger screen MacBook Air (yet.)

Choice is good, but none of these desktop options would seem to offer what I really want at an affordable price: 32GB and 4TB SSD.

[chucker]

I still think if the 27-inch iMac is coming back, we'll see something analogous to the iPad and MacBook: a 24-inch iMac, and 27-inch and 30-inch iMacs Pro.

My guess is they have some of that somewhere in their drawers, but are waiting to see how the Mac Studio does. If it's a success, why bother?

[Frank777]

Nice to see Canadians haven't lost their touch with prematurely leaking Apple gear.

If the 14" and 16" MacBook Pros get a press release intro tomorrow, I presume the M2 Mini will also replace its Intel counterpart?

It's taken much longer to erase that Intel option from the Apple Store than I would have thought.

[PB PM]

It kind boggles the mind that Intel even has 8th gen chips left to sell Apple to put in those things, if anyone is even buying them at all.

[dglow]

Originally Posted by Frank777 If the 14" and 16" MacBook Pros get a press release intro tomorrow, I presume the M2 Mini will also replace its Intel counterpart? It's taken much longer to erase that Intel option from the Apple Store than I would have thought.

Leaving an Intel Mini available throughout the transition was Apple doing a solid for its developers, IMO.

[turtle]

Anyone playing with Win11 ARM on AS yet?

[chucker]

Originally Posted by turtle Anyone playing with Win11 ARM on AS yet?

In Parallels, yes, since June. Most stuff works fine.

[turtle]

Thanks

I did seethe Fusion 13 is out with AS support. I might be able to upgrade finally.

[chucker]

I think Fusion is still (somewhat intentionally) a bit finicky with Windows, because they want their official stance to be that it's unsupported. Not sure; may have improved.