[Capella]

Originally Posted by psmith2.0 Seems like there should be a better way/place to do those things. But, hey…momentum. And the devil you know. “Yes, it’s a sea of absolute, unrepentant fuckwittery, but it’s the only place I can do my thing.” Ugh. That’s no good. There’s no way Twitter is the only means/tool for such undertakings. That’s truly unfortunate if so. It’s going to go away eventually as long as a developmentally challenged/socially retarded man-child is running things and making one moron decision after another. I assume it’s limping by right now, with all the personnel who’ve been fired or who have quit. Like those guys hanging around playing violins as Titanic was sinking. Go find a lifeboat and don’t wait until the damn thing is resting in the ocean floor.

It really is difficult and obnoxious.

Discord is siloed to people who are in servers already ; Facebook and Instagram allow for a certain amount of viral spread outside your bubble, but don't tend to lead to the same level of "see it and reshare it Right Now" ; Mastodon and others don't have the counterpart critical mass yet. I think the reason we keep seeing Twitter direct clones is that the ease of "sign up in 5 minutes and start replying to things and sharing them", with "you can sign up with usernames and be anonymous and not real-named like FB", isn't properly duplicated elsewhere. Tumblr is mechanically the closest, but I can't see Tumblr getting a huge influx of journalists and news media, lol. Reddit is an okay discussion platform but it's not an amazing platform for breaking news, as we've seen in history when Reddit has done breaking news horribly wrong. Using Reddit for live sports commentary during the Calder Cup was a mess.

And actually the romance community and one of the alternatives (Spoutible) wound up in a topic war over its creator insisting his rules about NSFW content absolutely weren't going to injure romance novelists or authorial creatives, only block OnlyFans type content - and then turned around and did that, while arguing with a professional lawyer. After that, I have a huge side-eye on non-decentralized alternatives.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by psmith2.0 What am I gonna do, say no? Don’t ask, just do it. I don’t run/control such things. Good for you. Seems a shame you have to wade into all that just to get something important to you done. It sucks that a known “toxic cesspit” is the only game in town for such endeavors. Doesn’t that strike you as a bit unfortunate and screwed up? Seems like there should be a better way/place to do those things. But, hey…momentum. And the devil you know. “Yes, it’s a sea of absolute, unrepentant fuckwittery, but it’s the only place I can do my thing.” Ugh. That’s no good. There’s no way Twitter is the only means/tool for such undertakings. That’s truly unfortunate if so. It’s going to go away eventually as long as a developmentally challenged/socially retarded man-child is running things and making one moron decision after another. I assume it’s limping by right now, with all the personnel who’ve been fired or who have quit. Like those guys hanging around playing violins as Titanic was sinking. Go find a lifeboat and don’t wait until the damn thing is resting in the ocean floor.

Nowhere else has ever managed to serve as a single massive global conversation. Reddit is fragmented, discoverability in Facebook is a nightmare, Instagram's algorithm is impossible to understand and TikTok doesn't really build communities.

Of course, Elon doesn't understand any of that because in his mind, Twitter only ever served to bring him legions of sycophants that he could dupe into buying his stock to meme it to the moon.

There were a lot of great communities built up on Twitter, like the romance authors Capella has mentioned. Infosec was another, but they jumped en masse to Mastodon.

Nobody else has built a single real time global conversation like Twitter and I'm not sure we'll ever see that again. There was a lot of shit, yes, but also a lot of good that happened there.

[psmith2.0]

Originally Posted by Capella It was a rhetorical opening, I have a super bad habit of doing my verbal tics online as well.. I'd also like to throw in a very cute fundraiser I helped lead: the $2,000 in Kitten-related supplies that said Romance community put together for Georgia pets: (If you're in Georgia, please consider adopting a kitten, or joining in on mailing them supplies, they have Over 200 kittens right now to feed and make healthy.)

Awww, Fancy Feast is what I buy for my Jasper. I was at a nearby PetSense two weeks ago, looking for some new/different flavors of Fancy Feast and they had an adoption section over to the side, with a cute little gray tiger-striped kitten in a little cage with toys, blanket and letterbox. She (name was Abigail) kept nibbling my finger and forehead-nudging me, loudly purring and looking at me with those irresistible kitten eyes (big black jellybeans) and I damn near took her home, then and there. But Jasper keeps me busy/occupied and I wouldn't want him to feel "replaced" or no longer loved/cared about by bringing another kitty home, so I didn't/wouldn't. I do believe, whenever he's gone, I'll seek another out. I didn't realize just how quiet and still it is around here, now that it isn't. I was lonely seven years ago, and had no idea! If Jasper was gone, I'm not sure I could stand a cat-free house at this point. I'd go adopt a sweet little kitty and give him/her a loving home. Jasper just turned six last month, so, hopefully, I've got many more years left with him and it's nothing I have to think about anytime soon. I've been pet-free since spring 2004, so, when Jasper showed up in my backyard in spring 2017, I wasn't looking to take him in and be a "daddy". But that's just how things turned out. I knew, when I hopped in the car to go buy a few cans of Fancy Feast for the first time in over a decade, that I was locked. "Man, if I do this, that means...yep. That's okay, I want this."

PS - I feel about unwanted cats and dogs the same way I do about humans in that situation. So many people can barely fend for/feed themselves, so what's the first thing they alway do? Pull their jeans off, go at it all afternoon with zero protection and, voila, nine months later...

I hate that there are so many stray, unwanted puppies and kittens around. But the same people who won't take responsibility on their human side sure as hell aren't going to get their pets spayed/neutered. I wish I knew Jasper's background. He just showed up, as a little Nerf football-sized kitten in my backyard on July 5, 2017, little ribs showing through and so appreciative of any water/food/attention I gave him. We bonded instantly and I could tell he was like "hey, I'm not a stray anymore, trying to hunt mice for meals...this guy spoons me out some good-tasting stuff from those little cans. I think I'll stick around!" *sniff* He does have a total clone - black fur, same length, same body type, etc. - who I sometimes see pass through the yard once in a while. I always wonder if that's his sister or brother from the same litter, six years ago?

[Capella]

Originally Posted by Ryan Nobody else has built a single real time global conversation like Twitter and I'm not sure we'll ever see that again. There was a lot of shit, yes, but also a lot of good that happened there.

Exactly this.

[kieran]

Ok, so there's no way that the entire story about rate limiting is due to people scraping the Twitter website, right?

Is it a bug in the code that's causing Twitter to DDoS itself?

Did Twitter not pay a hosting bill that was due by July 30th?

or is Elon really just doing this to push people to sign up for Twitter Blue?

What an absolute shitshow this has turned into.

[Ryan]

It wasn't a hosting bill. Nothing is served out of any public clouds.

Best guess is that due to Twitter's various data centers being in various states of decay, they added request hedging to the clients: fire off requests to all the DCs, go with whichever replies first. Due to the new rate limits, clients are seeing more failures and firing off even more requests to try to recover and nobody knows the stack well enough to fix it.

[kieran]

That's what I figured and was hoping you'd answer here. Didn't want to tag you in a public post on Mastodon.

As many predicted, the layoffs seem to finally be catching up to Twitter and there aren't enough people left there with enough knowledge to actually fix things as they happen, so Musk throws out stupid solutions to try and put a bandaid on it

[psmith2.0]

I’d expect nothing less. The last person (other than, well..me) who should’ve been was allowed to take over the joint. WTF did people think was actually gonna happen, eventually? Nobody involved, either end, gets to act stunned and shocked.

[drewprops]

The rate limiting story is new to me.

Also, don't sites like Twitter and Facebook rely on users clicking around?

...

[Kickaha]

Originally Posted by drewprops Also, don't sites like Twitter and Facebook rely on users clicking around?

That would be the absolutely 'genius' part.

1) Twitter relies on ad revenue
2) Ad revenue relies on posts being seen
3) Limit the user's ability to see posts -> lower the ad revenue

Brilliant, I tell ya. Just brilliant.

[chucker]

I'm not privy to whether The Information's story on the Google Cloud Platform bills is relevant to this, but aside from that, the sequence of events last weekend must have been something like

1) those evil third-party clients shall die! (Have you tried negotiating with them?)
2) drat! Now we have more scrapers! (Who could have predicted that?)
3) let’s rate-limit everyone, and limit guests to zero? (Have you adapted the front-end to reduce requests, or does it keep trying?)
4) oh no, we’re now dDoSing ourselves! (So that’s a no.)

I'm also not sure the dDoS thing is true. Perhaps it's completely false, perhaps it only applies to guests (which would still be quite problematic), and perhaps it was swiftly fixed.

But even leaving that aside, rate-limiting a website that is designed to maximize clicks doesn't seem like a smart move. Sure, he seems to want to move the platform further and further to for-pay anyway, but the idea that this will bring in sufficient revenue seems… wildly optimistic?

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by chucker I'm not privy to whether The Information's story on the Google Cloud Platform bills is relevant to this, but aside from that, the sequence of events last weekend must have been something like 1) those evil third-party clients shall die! (Have you tried negotiating with them?) 2) drat! Now we have more scrapers! (Who could have predicted that?) 3) let’s rate-limit everyone, and limit guests to zero? (Have you adapted the front-end to reduce requests, or does it keep trying?) 4) oh no, we’re now dDoSing ourselves! (So that’s a no.) I'm also not sure the dDoS thing is true. Perhaps it's completely false, perhaps it only applies to guests (which would still be quite problematic), and perhaps it was swiftly fixed. But even leaving that aside, rate-limiting a website that is designed to maximize clicks doesn't seem like a smart move. Sure, he seems to want to move the platform further and further to for-pay anyway, but the idea that this will bring in sufficient revenue seems… wildly optimistic?

The DDOS thing is true and it affects both logged-in and logged-out users.

I think it's a matter of time before he limits the platform to paid subscribers. The math just doesn't work though. Even if he was willing to shed a lot more employees and cut hosting costs to the bone, he loaded up Twitter with $13 billion in bonds that have to be paid.

Without the debt costs, maybe you could cut it to the point where a much smaller paid user base is sustainable. After all, a huge amount of Twitter's workforce was there to sell ads and you wouldn't need them anymore. A lot of the most expensive infrastructure exists just for ads (real-time bidding and so forth).

But when you owe $1.5 billion a year in bond repayments the math just doesn't work.

[Kickaha]

Or, you pull an equity firm, and declare bankruptcy on the company loaded with debt. Bing bang boom, all your cares are gone.

I mean, it's not like they're student loans.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Kickaha Or, you pull an equity firm, and declare bankruptcy on the company loaded with debt. Bing bang boom, all your cares are gone. I mean, it's not like they're student loans.

Even then, he's racked up so much legal liability that no sane person would touch the remaining assets even if you could somehow separate out the debt. The FTC consent decree, GDPR violations, ongoing lawsuits from former employees (over 2000!).

Very good chance someone manages the pierce the corporate veil and go after Musk personally for the whole sum.

[drewprops]

Just read that Gfycat is shuttering, meaning that 3 zillion GIFs will suddenly disappear in just a bit. Maybe it IS time for the web to die.


...

[turtle]

Isn't Gfycat what our iOS keyboard uses?

[drewprops]

I'm not sure? I see one by Tenor in there...


...

[PB PM]

Originally Posted by drewprops Just read that Gfycat is shuttering, meaning that 3 zillion GIFs will suddenly disappear in just a bit. Maybe it IS time for the web to die. ...

Thousands of Rick rolls shouted in terror and were suddenly silenced.

[chucker]

It turns out centralized services have downsides. Who knew??

[Brad]

Musk admits advertisers haven’t returned to Twitter, ad revenue down 50%

Twitter-owner Elon Musk says the company is still losing money because advertising revenue is down 50 percent. "We're still negative cash flow, due to ~50% drop in advertising revenue plus heavy debt load. Need to reach positive cash flow before we have the luxury of anything else," Musk wrote in a tweet on Saturday. In another tweet yesterday, Musk said that Twitter "did not see the increase in advertising revenue that was expected in June," but that July is looking "a bit more promising." … "We could be profitable, or to be more precise, cash flow positive this quarter if things keep going well. I think almost all advertisers have come back or said they are going to come back," Musk said in April. Musk also claimed in February that he saved Twitter from bankruptcy, but it still has plenty of financial problems. The "heavy debt load" Musk mentioned on Saturday was caused by the $13 billion of debt he used to fund his October 2022 purchase of the company, resulting in interest payments estimated at $1.5 billion a year.

In related news, water is wet, and the sky is blue.

Since Musk is known to lie publicly for optics, I think it's safe to assume that ad revenue is down more than just "~50%".

[kieran]

I still read Twitter occasionally, because there are some accounts there I still want to read that haven't moved over to other services.

Not a surprise at all that the advertising is down. There are right wing loony toons all over the place being force fed to everyone.

I did see a tweet from the Auschwitz Memorial saying they've "lost over 19,000 followers in the last six months. It's difficult to find a reason of such a trend. "

I think it's obvious. People have bailed on Twitter at a huge rate and I don't see it slowing down.

[psmith2.0]

How can somebody mess up something so bad? It’s almost as though someone completely unqualified/unknowledgeable re:Twitter was allowed to run it.



May as well put me in charge of the Olympics. Or an LGBT film festival. Would be about the same outcome.

[PB PM]

How can someone mess up this badly? Simple, by thinking that the hard work of others that made his previous businesses successful was something he did. People who own businesses should never forget that they didn’t build it on their own, no man/women is and island.

[psmith2.0]

Adults, educated adults(?), let this happen. Nobody could see what many (most?) of us could? I can't feel bad for Twitter, sorry. I don't care what good it does in some areas/causes. Or what sort of communication/come together platform it may have represented at some point to many. My front porch does too, but if my neighbor walked over and shits all over it, every other day, then we'll meet up at Arby's or Burger King (or figure out a low-key way to off said neighbor and dispose of the evidence). A lot of smart, experienced and knowledgeable people handed the reins over to someone who has shown zero qualifications for running such a thing. I think a lot of people got caught up in the numbers/money involved and short-circuited.

I know that hobo-looking guy was kinda stepping out (Jack something?), but damn. Hire somebody from Instagram. Hell, Myspace? I imagine they're still out there.

This never should've happened, period, I don't care what your personal feelings/thoughts are on Tesla Boy.

Seemed like the biggest, most blatant case of "I've got money, and I want something. Therefore I get it!" in my lifetime.

Maybe at least get someone from the Silicon Valley/social media/digital tech sandbox? Then there's a viable, legit shot of success and not hand-grenading the joint daily. What made any clear-eyed grown-up involved look at it all and go "hey, wait a minute...just because this guy has a big name and his all over the place, every paper/magazine/TV show, that's not automatically the solid, ideal choice...". Those who did do that probably got taken out back and shot in the head.

It's been almost 15 months since I started this thread, and despite having read every single post here, especially the ones responding to my snark or exasperated "why?!" posts (and reading articles linked here about it all), I've not budged one centimeter from my thoughts/sentiments in my opening post, 13 pages back. *shrug*

[Ryan]

I respect the hell out of Myspace Tom. He sold the company to News Corp for hundreds of millions and then decided to become an excellent landscape photographer. I've heard stories from photo guides who've had him as a client—nicest guy in the world. Once he joined a photography workshop in New Zealand and wound up picking up the tab for the entire group, all strangers to him, to charter a helicopter and reach some super remote locations.

Took his money and just fucked off, the way you should.

As for Elon, believe me, none of us at Twitter wanted Elon to get the company other than the useless CEO (Parag) and the board. Apparently Parag didn't even get his $40 million golden parachute out of the deal. He tried to land a job at Microsoft a few months ago and a buddy of mine made sure he got rejected.

[Frank777]

Originally Posted by Ryan As for Elon, believe me, none of us at Twitter wanted Elon to get the company other than the useless CEO (Parag) and the board.

I think even Elon didn't seriously want the company.

[psmith2.0]

But he opened his mouth and made overtures toward that, didn't he? If he truly didn't want it, wouldn't he, of all people, know to not do that? At what point did he start to be taken seriously and was kinda locked in/obligated?

I mean, I'd love to buy Fender, cancel about half their silly, "forward-looking" lineup and just focus on what made them who they are (traditional 50's/60's Strats, Teles, basses, Jazzmasters and Jaguars), but I'd never say such a thing in earshot of any of the ownership/higher-ups. I don't have that kind of money!

Or does all this just fall back to "stupid shit rich people say, and get held to"? Everything kinda officially snowballed to where he HAD to follow through?

#heydorkslearntotakeajoke

[PB PM]

Originally Posted by Frank777 I think even Elon didn't seriously want the company.

The attempted hostile takeover by buying out shares was a clue that he was serious. Sometimes people forget that happened.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by psmith2.0 But he opened his mouth and made overtures toward that, didn't he? If he truly didn't want it, wouldn't he, of all people, know to not do that? At what point did he start to be taken seriously and was kinda locked in/obligated? I mean, I'd love to buy Fender, cancel about half their silly, "forward-looking" lineup and just focus on what made them who they are (traditional 50's/60's Strats, Teles, basses, Jazzmasters and Jaguars), but I'd never say such a thing in earshot of any of the ownership/higher-ups. I don't have that kind of money! Or does all this just fall back to "stupid shit rich people say, and get held to"? Everything kinda officially snowballed to where he HAD to follow through? #heydorkslearntotakeajoke

I remain convinced that he was tripping balls when he made the initial verbal offer and is just so unable to admit defeat that the Twitter board was able to get him to sign literally anything. He waived all due diligence and paid nearly twice the market value. His ex has insinuated that drugs were involved.

Once he signed the purchase agreement he was stuck, there was no out other than buying the company or negotiating a settlement with the board.

[kieran]

I could have sworn I saw somewhere that there was a $1 Billion cancellation fee.

Why, besides the obvious, did he not just pay that and get out when he realized this was going to be a complete and utter shit show?