[turtle]

News Release

Apple today introduced the new iPad with an all-screen design featuring a large 10.9-inch Liquid Retina display. The new iPad is powered by the A14 Bionic chip, which delivers even faster performance with incredible power efficiency for demanding tasks while still providing all-day battery life.1 Updated cameras include an Ultra Wide 12MP front camera located along the landscape edge of iPad for an even better video calling experience, and an updated 12MP back camera to capture sharp, vivid photos and 4K video. A USB-C port supports a wide range of accessories, Wi-Fi 6 brings even faster connections, and cellular models feature superfast 5G so users can stay connected on the go. Designed specifically for the new iPad, the all-new Magic Keyboard Folio features an incredible typing experience, a click-anywhere trackpad, and a versatile two-piece design. With iPadOS 16 and support for Apple Pencil (1st generation),2 iPad offers users more ways to be creative and productive. The new iPad is available to order starting today, with availability in stores beginning Wednesday, October 26.

• A14 Bionic
• Wi-Fi 6 + 5G
• USB-C
• New All-Screen Design

TouchID moved to the power/sleep button like the mini. Still uses the 1st pen Pencil.

[709]

Originally Posted by turtle Still uses the 1st pen Pencil.

And requires a 'USB-C to Apple Pencil Adapter' which - and I think I'm reading this correctly - means that your pencil is always hard-connected to the iPad via USB-C cable? Can that be right? It doesn't sound right.

[turtle]

The 1st get Pencil has a lighting plug (male end) under the cap where an eraser would be on an old school pencil. Maybe this is to adapt the lighting adapter to USB-C? That is what it appears to be in the images on the Apple Store site. Previously you would plug the Pencil directly into your iPad to charge and pair it.

edit: Eww.... so not Apple here:

The USB-C to Apple Pencil Adapter is required to pair and charge Apple Pencil (1st generation) with iPad (10th generation). Your Apple Pencil plugs into one end of the adapter and the USB-C Charge Cable from your iPad plugs into the other.

So yeah, Pencil -> adapter -> charging cable -> iPad

[709]

I guess the upside is that you can use the pencil while charging?

Still, there's absolutely no reason for not including 2nd gen Apple Pencil support instead of this idiotic workaround with yet another adapter. So much for 'green' Apple.

It's always something with these announcements.

[turtle]

Those Pencils charged in a flash. I'm sure it uses capacitors as opposed to actual batteries to run them. Been a long time since I used one, but it was really quick to charge even with heavy use.

Maybe it is "green" because Apple has a stockpile of 1st gen Pencils laying around they need to sell.

[turtle]

Ohh... I just noticed this:

Updated cameras include an Ultra Wide 12MP front camera located along the landscape edge of iPad for an even better video calling experience, and an updated 12MP back camera to capture sharp, vivid photos and 4K video.

So now the camera is on the top when in landscape.

[709]

So after poking around a bit more I've deduced that they had to ditch the magnetic Pencil 2 charger on the side because the camera lives there now instead of at the top, and there's a smart connector on the other long edge. If Apple really wanted to figure out a way to do it I'm sure they could, but nah. Too much similarity to and competition for the iPad Air then, I guess.

[edit]: ^^^

[turtle]

Your discovery is likely why the camera didn't move for the Pro. I did kinda wonder about that and didn't put it all together until now.

I will say, the 2nd Gen Pencil should fit on the short side though they have to contend with the TouchID/sleep button. Obviously they can't get around the USB-C port unless the offset it and then you can't charge both at the same time.

This is a problem they created and will be interesting to see how they engineer around it in future products.

[kscherer]

OK, so now why does the iPad Air exist? And why would I pay $150 more for it?

[turtle]

Because you want Pencil 2 and to video chat looking to the left always?

[PB PM]

And the Air has M1, should be significantly more powerful than the A14.

[kscherer]

For what?

[turtle]

The Air strikes me a the device to get if you are a cheap art hopeful who likes to doodle and play action games in your down time. You get the better Pencil features and likely able to handle layers and such from the various graphic arts apps out there.

Mind you, I don't really know but that is my guess. I use my iPad Pro (Gen 3) with the Pencil 2 for office work a light gaming. My Pencil is to sign documents and markup images and such. Nothing like what Paul or Drew would do on one.

[kscherer]

If that's you, then pay an extra $200 and get the iPad Pro 11".

If it's not you, then pay $150 less and get the new 10th-gen iPad.

What Apple has done is create yet another randomly confusing product line that requires too many excuses to sell each device.

[turtle]

Yeah, when I finally retire this one I'll be upgrading to the newest Pro at that time likely. I actually have to 12.9" though.

I got this one for ~$600 new (cellular too) from a B&H sale to clearance them out. I'm not sure I'll get a 12.9" next time though. I do like the bigger screen compared to the 11". It is the weight with the keyboard that makes it a pain.

[PB PM]

Originally Posted by kscherer For what?

For whatever. Some people edit movies and all kind of things on their iPads. Think outside the box man.

[chucker]

Originally Posted by 709 And requires a 'USB-C to Apple Pencil Adapter' which - and I think I'm reading this correctly - means that your pencil is always hard-connected to the iPad via USB-C cable? Can that be right? It doesn't sound right.

Well, not "always hard-connected". Just when charging, briefly. But also, you don't really have to charge from your iPad. You need that old male-to-male adapter and then any Lightning charger.

But yes, this is dumb. Why couldn't they have updated the Pencil to use USB-C? This seems like engineering saying "no, we never want to touch that thing from 2015 again; we have a new one" and marketing saying "yeah but we still want to sell it".

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by PB PM For whatever. Some people edit movies and all kind of things on their iPads. Think outside the box man.

Yeah, no duh.

I sell these things for a living. I know what people use them for.

I also know that the A13 is perfectly capable of handling almost all movie editing. And I know that what it can't handle, the M1 can. But that represents a very small subset of buyers that should be looking toward the iPad Pro or a Mac.

Yet again, Apple has created an absolute mess for the consumer. It takes longer to explain the differences — and make any sense of them — than it takes to edit the movie you're talking about.

Six iPad models is insane. Three is perfect, but we have six. One or two of the models has no excuse to exist at all (either the new iPad Air or the new iPad); one has little excuse to exist (the 11" iPad Pro); one is terribly overpriced (iPad mini), especially in light of the new iPad; and three are so close in specification and screen size that placing them next to each other hits the customer with a titanic amount of confusion (11" iPad Pro, 10.9" iPad Air, 10.9" iPad ).

This is a hot mess, and it demonstrates that Apple has lost the focus that Steve Jobs worked so hard to create. While I don't like to ride the "What would Steve do?" horse, I credit him with slimming the product line to something manageable and easy to understand. He stripped out all the Performas and PowerMacs and PowerBooks and slimmed the line down to a beautiful example of efficiency. Now, 11 years after his death, the confusion is back and Apple no longer has any idea what its purpose is.

The entire lineup is a jumbled mess of price points trying to cover every $50 increment.

Remember when the iPad was $499 and the iPad mini was the cheap, little brother? Yet, for the last several years the iPad mini has been priced $170 more than the iPad? And, now, the iPad is finally spec'd better than the Mini and the Mini is still $50 more expensive? I mean, what the hell?

[709]

Originally Posted by kscherer ... one is terribly overpriced (iPad mini), especially in light of the new iPad;

I'd argue that it's the new iPad that's terribly overpriced compared to the mini - it should be $399 tops. Then the old 9th gen makes a little more sense sticking around at $329.

Compared to the latest 10th gen iPad, the Mini has a newer chip, better display, works with the latest Pencil (), and is all around sexier.

[kscherer]

Hey, you can justify the price all you want.

I think we sell about one Mini/month.

Which is almost double the number of iPad Pro's we sell, and on par with the iPad Air. In contrast, we sell about 10x the number of $329 iPads as the mini and iPad Pro combined. iPad buyers care about price way more than Mac buyers. I would venture to guess that 95% of all iPad users surf the web, check their facechatsnapbook, play solitaire, and nothing else. Apple has just figured out how to sell them an overpriced, over-spec'd thing with which to do it.

[PB PM]

Originally Posted by kscherer I also know that the A13 is perfectly capable of handling almost all movie editing. And I know that what it can't handle, the M1 can. But that represents a very small subset of buyers that should be looking toward the iPad Pro or a Mac.

There are also long term use things to keep in mind. I think it’s a safe bet that Apple will drop support for A13 before they do M1. That $200 could buy you more years of having a supported device.

As for your sales experience, that’s how people who come to your store use them, so that’s a little anecdotal.

[turtle]

I see the M1 becoming the low end iPad chip as opposed to the A chips in the future. Heck, I don't think it will be long and the Pro phones will have M chips in them. Do they need them, no but the tooling is there and it is cheaper to make more of the same than less of multiple.

[Frank777]

Originally Posted by kscherer OK, so now why does the iPad Air exist? And why would I pay $150 more for it?

Glad I'm not alone. When I saw the new base iPad, this was the first question that came to mind.

[Capella]

I use a mini and just picked up a 2nd gen pencil to start learning art with. I prefer the one handed holdability in my tiny hands.

[709]

Originally Posted by turtle This is a problem they created and will be interesting to see how they engineer around it in future products.

Just read a post from Gruber and he says this as well:

The internal mechanism for magnetically attaching, charging, and pairing Pencil 2 is both expensive and somewhat large. And cameras are surprisingly large internally once you count the flex connectors and everything else. You can actually see this for yourself by looking at a teardown of a Pencil-2-compatible iPad. It’s going to require significant new engineering to make future iPads that support Pencil 2 with the front camera on the landscape side. My guess — and this is truly a guess, with zero hints from any sources — is that Apple will swap the positions of the Pencil 2 connector and the front camera. But on current iPads Pro and Air, only the 12.9-inch Pro has room for a Pencil 2 on that side. On the 11-inch Pro and the Air, the side button gets in the way. Also: attaching a Pencil on that side, with the current iPad Pro and Air designs, might obstruct the speakers. Fun time to be an iPad hardware designer.

[turtle]

They could make the Pencil shorter, but that only partially solves the problem. Moving the speakers is like a complete redesign just for a Pencil.

The most logical seems to be move the Pencil charging off the iPad entirely.

[709]

I've got to believe that they've figured it out for the next round. The camera on the long edge is going to be expected for any new models (sans mini, possibly), and to show that off on a lower-tier model and not have it figured for the future would be extremely shortsighted. Apple can be occasionally boneheaded but there's no way they don't have a plan.

Right?

[turtle]

heh heh

You keep the faith man!

[kscherer]

I suspect the "tablet" fad is nearly over. iPads are trying very hard to become touch-screen Macs, and I think that's where it all ends up. Aside from the low-end user, I don't see much of a future for iPads that are not also Macs. The processors and UI's are the key. Both iPads and Macs are sharing the same processors, while iPads are getting smarter and Macs are getting dumber. The two are merging into a "thing".

Don't know if I like where it's going or not, but I'm pretty sure I don't care. As long as there are inexpensive iMacs, I'm ok.

[709]

Oh for sure. The iOS-ification of macOS has been blatantly apparent in the last few updates, but maybe none so much as System Preferences Settings in Ventura. Holy kazaam did they just lift that wholly over from iOS or what?

But, as a person that's forever catching himself trying to scroll websites and resize images with fingers on my Macbooks, I think when the change does eventually come it'll be somewhat natural. Hopefully.