[Windowsrookie]

Halo Threeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee





OMG M4sT3r ChEiffff B0000nEr! Z0mG! + 12


Sorry about the outburst, been holding it in. I think I can hold it until September now.

[PB PM]

I have yet to figure out why people like Halo; its not the best FPS I've ever played, its okay, but not that good.

[beardedmacuser]

Originally Posted by PB PM I have yet to figure out why people like Halo; its not the best FPS I've ever played, its okay, but not that good.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but out of curiosity what would you rate above Halo?

[Wyatt]

Originally Posted by Windowsrookie Sorry about the outburst, been holding it in. I think I can hold it until September now.

That's okay, Mitch. I think we all expected at least one of those before September.

[Kraetos]

Originally Posted by PB PM I have yet to figure out why people like Halo; its not the best FPS I've ever played, its okay, but not that good.

1) It's almost perfectly balanced. There is no "supergun," you need to rely on your skill to use the best weapons available.

2) It's simple. The basic gameplay mechanics take only a few hours to master, yet from that simplicity comes nuances that makes the game never the same.

3) It looks great. Shouldn't really matter, but it does.

4) Great storyline. I even enjoyed the books.

FWIW, I really don't like Halo 2. At least not compared to Halo 1. Many of the things I just mentioned are noticeably weaker in Halo 2. Thankfully, the Halo 3 beta reminded me much more of Halo 1 than Halo 2.

[Wyatt]

Originally Posted by Kraetos FWIW, I really don't like Halo 2. At least not compared to Halo 1. Many of the things I just mentioned are noticeably weaker in Halo 2. Thankfully, the Halo 3 beta reminded me much more of Halo 1 than Halo 2.

I didn't like Halo 2, either. If 3 really is more like the original, I might have to check it out once I get a 360 (I'm waiting for 65nm CPUs now).

[Kraetos]

Originally Posted by fcgriz I didn't like Halo 2, either. If 3 really is more like the original, I might have to check it out once I get a 360 (I'm waiting for 65nm CPUs now).

Yeah. And I'm always surprised how many n00bs have never even played Halo 1 in favor of Halo 2. It's a damn shame. Halo 2 has sold twice as many copies as Halo 1.

I daresay, however, that the Halo 3 beta was more fun than Halo 1. I'll need to see the final version before I make a final judgement, but I honestly predict that Halo 3 will be hailed as the best shooter ever, and will sell more than fifteen million copies. I foresee myself losing thousands of hours to Halo 3.

[bassplayinMacFiend]

Originally Posted by Kraetos Yeah. And I'm always surprised how many n00bs have never even played Halo 1 in favor of Halo 2. It's a damn shame. Halo 2 has sold twice as many copies as Halo 1. I daresay, however, that the Halo 3 beta was more fun than Halo 1. I'll need to see the final version before I make a final judgement, but I honestly predict that Halo 3 will be hailed as the best shooter ever, and will sell more than fifteen million copies. I foresee myself losing thousands of hours to Halo 3.

I've never played Halo 2 but I've played Halo 1. Still have my copy of H1 as a matter of fact. If the single player in H3 is as good as the single player in H1 I'll definitely pick up a copy.

As far as multiplayer goes, I'm not into hopping bunnies with machine guns so I play different online games like GRAW2, Gears of War and Rainbow6:LV. There's a bit more strategy and less run-n-gun involved, especially when you're on a good team that actually communicates with each other.

[Kraetos]

threadsplit!

That is all, please continue with the regular scheduled programming

[Luca]

With Halo, I think it's the online players that kind of ruined it for a lot of people. Sure, there are a lot of people who simply enjoy the game in a mature manner, but there are also plenty of annoying 12-year-olds who ruin it for everyone. There's nothing like having a kid half your age (who shouldn't be playing the game in the first place, since it's rated "M") swear at you.

The other big criticisms are the repetitiveness of the first one and the BS cliffhanger ending of the second, and I agree with both of those. However, I still think both Halo and Halo 2 were great games. They weren't revolutionary, but there was so much attention to detail, and especially the first one was better than anything else at the time.

Another thing is that they're definitely the best single-player FPS games I've ever played. Few other games have pulled me in and made me want to replay them over and over again, much less shooters. I actually think they're better in single player than in multiplayer, especially online multiplayer (split screen or system link is the bomb though).

Anyway, once I can afford it, I may well decide to pick up an Xbox 360 and get a few games I've been looking forward to, including Forza 2 and Halo 3, and probably several others (I'll have to do some research).

[beardedmacuser]

Originally Posted by Luca ...better than anything else at the time.

Absolutely.

Originally Posted by Luca Another thing is that they're definitely the best single-player FPS games I've ever played. Few other games have pulled me in and made me want to replay them over and over again, much less shooters. I actually think they're better in single player than in multiplayer, especially online multiplayer (split screen or system link is the bomb though).

I'd have to agree with you on the online multiplayer problems. I tried playing a couple of times online, but it seemed to be full of fuckwits or suspiciously invincible and accurately shooting players.

Two Xboxes, two large TVs, two teams of three, and Halo! Superb!!! It's the only game for which I've gone to the trouble of taking it round to a friends house and setting-up such a scenario.

[World Leader Pretend]

I've yet to play much Halo, but I have played it at friends house's and such and it looks pretty good. I prefer to play games like SSX3 on my tiny TV though, so I'm waiting to get a bigger TV before I start playing FPS again. (SSX3 is the bomb btw)

My favorite party game is Time Splitters - Future Perfect, which has tons of multiplayer options (like building your own arenas) and crazy guns that are a creative as deadly. The "injector" comes to mind... The co-op story mode is also cool if there aren't a lot of people hanging out and you want something more structured.

[bassplayinMacFiend]

Originally Posted by Luca With Halo, I think it's the online players that kind of ruined it for a lot of people. Sure, there are a lot of people who simply enjoy the game in a mature manner, but there are also plenty of annoying 12-year-olds who ruin it for everyone. There's nothing like having a kid half your age (who shouldn't be playing the game in the first place, since it's rated "M") swear at you.

This is exactly why you need to build up a good friend's list. I game in a group of about 20 people that got together last year to not have to deal with this in GRAW. It's amazing how much fun online gaming can be when you're playing with a group of friends out to have fun without all the spawn killing and other stupid stuff so many kids seem to get off on.

[PB PM]

Originally Posted by Kraetos 1) It's almost perfectly balanced. There is no "supergun," you need to rely on your skill to use the best weapons available. 2) It's simple. The basic gameplay mechanics take only a few hours to master, yet from that simplicity comes nuances that makes the game never the same. 3) It looks great. Shouldn't really matter, but it does. 4) Great storyline. I even enjoyed the books. FWIW, I really don't like Halo 2. At least not compared to Halo 1. Many of the things I just mentioned are noticeably weaker in Halo 2. Thankfully, the Halo 3 beta reminded me much more of Halo 1 than Halo 2.

I guess I'm more into realism in games than having perfect balance. COD may not be better in many peoples eyes, and it does suffer from terrible realism shortcomings, but I guess I just like the feeling of popping someone with a good old fashion rife rather than laser guns. I've not played Halo in single player, only in massive multiplayer settings (we do this at work each winter at our gaming night). Add that too the fact that one of my coworkers talks about nothing but Halo and how he owns almost everyone at the game. Funny I managed to beat him a few times and I've played the game only three times. Another reason, not a big console gamer, so I don't really fit into the Halo demographic.

[evan]

Sticky grenades.


Need i say more?




(i will later... Kinda busy at work now though!)

[Kraetos]

Originally Posted by Luca With Halo, I think it's the online players that kind of ruined it for a lot of people. Sure, there are a lot of people who simply enjoy the game in a mature manner, but there are also plenty of annoying 12-year-olds who ruin it for everyone. There's nothing like having a kid half your age (who shouldn't be playing the game in the first place, since it's rated "M") swear at you.

I hate that.

Message to all parents: you wouldn't take your kids to an R-rated movie, you shouldn't let them play M-rated games. When I'm a parent, you better believe I won't let my kids play M rated games until their at least 15, if not 17 like the law says.

Message to all Best Buys, etc: Selling minors M-rated games without consent of a parent is against the law. Any employee that sells an M-rated game without checking ID if the age of the customer is in question should be fired, and any manager that doesn't fire their employees for this offense should be fired as well, and their store should be fined. This is already the policy of GameStop and EB Games, but they simply don't sell as many video games as the big electronics stores do.

I would love for there to be a huge sting operation. The police in my town recently rounded up a bunch of 16 year olds and sent them into liquor stores and convenience stores and told them to try and buy cigarettes and liquor. About a quarter of them succeeded. Stores were fined, people were fired. Managers subsequently cracked down on this kind of bullshit. I want to see this done for video games and R-rated movies.

Twelve-year-olds shouldn't be playing Halo or watching The Matrix. Few things in life are this black-and-white, and it boggles my mind why this isn't taken seriously when adolescent and teenage violence is such a problem in this country. I'm not saying that video games directly cause violence. But if 10 year olds are playing games with all this violence going on, maybe they'll think it's okay. This is probably the exception, and not the rule, but why take the chance? If you're wrong, people could die.

This information really needs to be on Dateline or something where all the soccer moms will see it. M rated games have a big fucking M on the front, so I don't want any bullshit about how a parent might not know. Make this common knowledge. Put it in the news. I will never understand why the crusade against video gaming is so rampant; yet for some reason, people forget all about the ESRB.

[turbulentfurball]

Originally Posted by Kraetos I hate that. Message to all parents: you wouldn't take your kids to an R-rated movie, you shouldn't let them play M-rated games. Message to all Best Buys, etc: Selling minors M-rated games without consent of a parent is against the law. Any employee that sells an M-rated game without checking ID if the age of the customer is in question should be fired, and any manager that doesn't fire their employees for this offense should be fired as well, and their store should be fined.

Damn Right! Hear that windowsrookie? No Halo 3 (or 2 or 1) for you!

[Moogs]

COD and COD2 in particular, were way better FPS than any version of Halo I ever played, particularly the first. And since Halo is not Mac-friendly of late, I couldn't give a poop how many installments are released.

[Windowsrookie]

Originally Posted by turbulentfurball Damn Right! Hear that windowsrookie? No Halo 3 (or 2 or 1) for you!

My parents have taken me to rated R movies for years, almost a decade now.

Ratings are stupid is their really a difference in maturity between the "M" (17 year olds can buy it) and "A" (18 year olds can buy it)?

I own Halo 2, and will own Halo 3. And yes, I hate the 13 year olds that can kick my ass in Halo. But then I remember they weigh 300lbs and have sever acne.

[Kraetos]

It's up to parents to decide whether or not it's okay to take your kids to R-rated movies or let them buy M-rated games. If a parent wants to let their kid do this, and they think their kid is responsible and grounded enough to be exposed to this kind of content, then fine.

Parents do, however, need to know about ESRB ratings. If you know about M rated games and why they are M rated, and you still want to let your kid have them, then thats your call. But a lot of parents don't realize that games have ratings. Parents should be knowledgeable about these things, and then they can make the call as to whether or not they think its acceptable.

But who shouldn't be making this call is Best Buy. That's the problem I have.

Originally Posted by Windowsrookie Ratings are stupid is their really a difference in maturity between the "M" (17 year olds can buy it) and "A" (18 year olds can buy it)? D

The difference is theoretically the same one that exists between R-rated movies and NC-17 rated movies. While R rated movies might be acceptable if you think your kids can handle it, they won't even let a kid INTO an NC-17 rated movie, period, end of story. And I happen to agree. If a game gets slapped with an AO rating, it's not to be taken lightly.

Where I will contest the rating system, however, is how there's a huge difference between violence and nudity/sex. To be honest, I don't really care if my 14 or 15 year old sees some tits. Their breasts. Big fucking deal. On the other hand, who saw Die Hard 4? By all means, that should have been rated R for the violence alone. I would think very carefully about taking my 13-year-old to a movie like that.

[BenP]

Kraetos, selling 'M' rated games to kids under 16 is not against the law. From the ESRB:

Although it does not have the legal authority to implement or enforce retailer sales policies with respect to computer and video games, the ESRB works closely with retailers and game centers to: a) provide in-store signage which explains the rating system; b) support their store policies pertaining to the sale or rental of Mature-rated games to minors; and c) help educate and train store associates and employees with regard to the rating system.

(Emphasis mine.)

It is against most store policies, however.

[Kraetos]

Originally Posted by BenP Kraetos, selling 'M' rated games to kids under 16 is not against the law. From the ESRB: (Emphasis mine.) It is against most store policies, however.

Shit, well it should be. Letting kids into R-rated movies is against the law, right? Or am I making that up?

Either way, the lack of knowledge on the parents part is appalling. My own mother didn't know what the deal was until I told her a few weeks ago, when she goes "you know, video games really do cause violence." I responded, "that may be so, but sale of violent video games is restricted to minors." She had no idea.

[torifile]

Here's what I don't get - every single person who has an XBL account has to give their age. Why do they allow people who are under 17 to play on the servers? WR, are you and your colleagues lying in your account setup?

It seems to me that an easy solution would be for parents to have some control over the Live account, rather than the game purchasing itself. Not over 17? Can't play this game on our servers. Or something like that.

[neiltc13]

Originally Posted by torifile Here's what I don't get - every single person who has an XBL account has to give their age. Why do they allow people who are under 17 to play on the servers? WR, are you and your colleagues lying in your account setup? It seems to me that an easy solution would be for parents to have some control over the Live account, rather than the game purchasing itself. Not over 17? Can't play this game on our servers. Or something like that.

Well simply because the ESRB rating is worthless. It is merely an advisory rating and unlike other countries, the USA lacks any sort of legislation to prevent the sale or use of rated games to minors. I think that the ESRB is one of the worst organisations or companies currently active in the 'games industry' simply due to its lack of meaning.

Here in Europe, games are rated by PEGI, which is a similar system to ESRB. However, in the UK when a game contains specific objectionable content it is required by law that it be rated by the British Board of Film Classification before it can be sold. Once this process is complete, BBFC will award a certificate, which is usually 12, 15 or 18. It is illegal for a retailer to supply a title with a BBFC rating to a person below the age on the box. It's that simple. No stupid M or AO or T or EC ratings, it's simply an age which is very, very easy for parents to understand. It is also illegal for a minor to attempt to purchase an age restricted game in the same way it is illegal for them to attempt to purchase a lottery ticket, alcohol or tobacco. Further, a person is commiting a crime if they purchase an age restricted game with intent to supply to a person below the age on the box. People who break these laws can face fines, loss of trading licences and in extreme cases I believe prison is an option.

This works and that's the best thing about it. There is no furore over who is blamed when some kid does something reckless and blames a game - it's clear who's at fault. It's not the game developer or publisher, as they submitted the game to BBFC for rating. It is therefore either the retailer or the purchaser of the title who is at fault when something like this happens.

The fact that many, many parents in the USA don't actually understand ESRB ratings is paramount to the fact that they are so terrible. I think it would be very interesting to see just how many actually understand what "M" on the box means as both the 17+ and the "Mature" lettering are in TINY fonts and the only real descriptions are on the back out of the way.

The sooner ESRB is scrapped and completely recreated with proper Government-backed law behind each rating the better. Until then, we'll look forward to more developers and publishers being wrongly villainised by the media and the general public for creating interactive entertainment experiences which are appropriate for adults.

I hate ESRB.

Torifile, there are parental controls built into every Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 console which can restrict what ratings of games can be booted. Very few parents know they are there.

[Koodari]

Background: I have never dug FPS single player modes much. Doom, Half-Life and Aliens vs Predator are about the only ones I liked and consequently played through. But multiplayer, and especially team multiplayer? Doom deathmatch, Team Fortress (on Quake 1), ActionQuake (on Quake 2), Gloom (on Quake 2), AvP, Counterstrike - those have been the best for me. I played TF and CS on public servers without a clan, the others on LAN with lots of friends. Haven't really played FPS after 2001.

I didn't "get" Halo. Nice outdoor views, generic indoors, ho-hum weaponry, and the basic premise familiar from hundreds upon hundreds of games (you are a super soldier fighting a bunch of aliens) did nothing towards generating interest. Multiplayer would probably have been more fun as it's usually my thing. Colorful laser weaponry in many games has failed to impress me because it doesn't provide for partial cover, it does too wimpy damage, and a hit doesn't slow you down. These things combined mean that you don't have the tactical option of really denying use of an area with suppressive fire, like you can with a real machinegun. They also mean it's not a big deal if you allow opponents to know roughly where you are, which I feel takes a lot of subtlety out.

Realism in weapons doesn't have to mean making them unbalanced. The army uses plenty of different weaponry for a reason. They're all good for something.

My favorite moments playing CS are the kind where I catch a small glimpse of the opponent - someone I know to be better at running and gunning than me - then make a series of half-psychic guesses about their location, shoot through walls, lob grenades, use cameras to prepare for their approach, force them to come defuse a bomb or rescue hostages, use hostages as shields etc. to outplay them. Getting called wallhacker is like receiving a medal.

My neighbor didn't "get" Halo either. He tried it both on XBox and on a PC so it can't be the controls. He isn't a multiplayer FPS type, more into RPG and strategy, but I'd have expected the storyline to hook him if it's good.

Well, I just got a loaner XBox with both Halo 1 and Halo 2.. I'll be re-trying them in single player.

[Enki]

Originally Posted by bassplayinMacFiend I've never played Halo 2 but I've played Halo 1. Still have my copy of H1 as a matter of fact. If the single player in H3 is as good as the single player in H1 I'll definitely pick up a copy.

My god, Halo turned into a mind-numbing procession of shoot a bazillion undead, run back to get some more ammo, then shoot a bazillion more in the next hall that looks uncannily like the last one. Repeat 4-6 times, reset and do the next cycle.

Sure there were a few cool moments like the first time you get to fly or drive the hog, and the music is perfect to the mood, but overall it didn't live up to the hype. Half-life and Marathon have it beat overall for immersion and game play.

[Luca]

I agree that the Flood (aka zombie) levels in Halo were crap. They weren't as bad in 2, and in general, Halo 2 stayed away from the whole "repeat the same hallway 30 times" thing that the first did.

As for games to kids, I mostly agree with Kraetos and neiltc13 here. Personally, I think that people are, in general, a bit too paranoid about games and their effect on young people. But I also has a cousin who reinforces the need to keep especially violent games away from minors every time I see him. This kid is messed up - he has some sort of ADHD thing, which makes him not only hyperactive, but just stupid at the same time. He's the only person I've met who was truly unable to separate the fantasy of movies and games from reality. Oh, and he totally wants to join the Army and be part of the special forces . By the way, he's 19, maybe 20 by now. He still acts like he's 12. And yes, his mom just buys him whatever he wants - not just games, but everything. She did so when he was very young and she still does so now, as far as I know.

I guess my cousin is a special case, since he is very immature even at age 19, but it really does bother me when I see younger and younger kids playing games like Halo, Grand Theft Auto, and so on. If they're 15? Fine, I guess. It's pretty much up to the parents to decide if they should be allowed to or not. But at age 12 or 13? I don't think so.

Enki: Do you really think Marathon is a better game than Halo? Maybe at the time Marathon was released it was better than Halo was when it was released, but I get bored really fast with old games, and Marathon is no exception. Yes I've tried playing it. I didn't last long.

Half-Life 2 was a pretty sweet game, but I far preferred the multiplayer (both HL2 Deathmatch and Counter-Strike: Source) to the single player game. In single player, HL2 got very boring for me, mostly because of the excruciatingly long vehicle levels (HL2's answer to Halo's Library, I guess), and I didn't think the story was even that good. But the Gravity Gun makes for some really fun MP action.

[Enki]

Originally Posted by Luca;482491Enki: Do you really think Marathon is a better game than Halo? Maybe at the time Marathon was released it was better than Halo was when [i it[/i] was released, but I get bored really fast with old games, and Marathon is no exception. Yes I've tried playing it. I didn't last long.

Technically, Halo is far superior than Marathon or HL, but the storyline from Marathon still beats the Halo storyline. I actually played the full Marathon series through just before playing Halo, since they are intrinsically linked, but Cortona just isn't anywhere near as interesting as Durandal, even though she has a relatively hot avatar. Every once in awhile I have dusted off a latest version of Aleph One, but not often, and not since I got the Intel iMac (I don't know if it even runs on this rig). I agree there isn't much long term staying power there, but who can't love a SPNKR in close quarters combat? Especially among a throng of exploding Bob's? Those moments are just downright gleeful fun. Never felt that once in Halo, just lots of "that's cool!" The gleeful fun makes for a decade+ of great memories. I will look at Halo as a technical triumph the fell short of being a great game.

[Electric Monk]

Originally Posted by beardedmacuser I'm not disagreeing with you, but out of curiosity what would you rate above Halo?

It wasn't addressed to me but I figured I'd weigh in. I like Halo. Quite a bit. The Flood was a brain dead idea and Halo was never as cool as it might have been in the early stages of development[1] but it was well done and had a decent stock sci-fi story and was fun.

However I've never before and never since played a FPS that in any way measured up to Deus Ex. That game is so far ahead of every FPS ever made people even now, half a decade after it's release, are working on porting it to a new engine and another group are redoing all the textures in higher resolutions.

If you haven't played Deus Ex run, do not walk or crawl, run and get this game. An FPS with a story (um, a real story, not half-a-dozen science fiction cliches), an FPS with inventory, an FPS that is just plain fun to do because you can darn near anything on it's massive open-ended levels.


[1] Halo at one point (despite Bungie denials these days) was intended have a single giant overworld a la RPG style. Say you're over partying in the canyon and your mission is halfway across the map on the top of a mount, well, you have to get there through wandering forces and start the mission—or at least call in air support.

Everything was to be persistent and decayed so you come back 5 or 6 missions later to either an old mission or some battle you fought in the overworld and bodies and shell casing are still there.

[Kraetos]

Whose seen the new trailers?

Makes my skin tingle. AHHH! CAN'T WAIT UNTIL THE 25TH!