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Macbooks Need Serious Improvement
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Mr. X
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
 
2007-04-04, 19:02

I am sick and tired of Apple forcing us to spend close to $3,000 in order to get a 17" laptop. I've been an Apple user all my life, but with decked out 17" HP laptops at less than 2X the $, I will be crossing over to the darkside if I don't see an affordable 17" Mac laptop by the summer (around the time I want a new computer)...

Still feel that my older iBook is better than any MacBook option.....I HATE THAT TINY SCREEN! Ridiculous....

Sorry for rant.....just frustrated...


My Mac--> iBook G4, 1.33 GHz w/ 80G HD & 1G RAM
My iPods--> 4G 60gb + Shuffle (512MB)
Retired--> iMac G3 DV SE, Original iPod w/ Scroll Wheel, iPod Shuffle (1G)
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Kraetos
Lovable Bastard
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2007-04-04, 19:07

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. X View Post
I am sick and tired of Apple forcing us to spend close to $3,000 in order to get a 17" laptop. I've been an Apple user all my life, but with decked out 17" HP laptops at less than 2X the $, I will be crossing over to the darkside if I don't see an affordable 17" Mac laptop by the summer (around the time I want a new computer)...

Still feel that my older iBook is better than any MacBook option.....I HATE THAT TINY SCREEN! Ridiculous....

Sorry for rant.....just frustrated...
I believe that 15.4" MacBooks will arrive this summer. But that's just what I think.
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Windowsrookie
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2007-04-04, 19:08

Guess you'll be buying a Windows laptop this summer.
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Wyatt
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Near Indianapolis
 
2007-04-04, 19:08

Just buy a refurb MacBook Pro. That's what Apple would tell you if you called them. You can get a refurb Core 2 Duo model for $2299.

I know that's not the ideal solution, but Apple has shown no signs that they're even interested in having a larger consumer notebook. There have been rumors of a 15", but I think the 17" will remain a pro-only option.

Twitter: bwyatt | Xbox: @playsbadly | Instagram: @bw317
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cosus
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2007-04-04, 19:08

While less than 2x would be technically correct, I think you meant less than half.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2007-04-04, 19:36

Yeah, don't hold your breath for a large consumer notebook from Apple. Buy a refurb as already suggested to conserve cost with a 17" MBP. Heck, you might even be able to get a first run MBP with CoreDuo off eBay and save even more.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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Brad
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2007-04-04, 19:39

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. X View Post
I am sick and tired of Apple forcing us to spend close to $3,000 in order to get a 17" laptop.
Why aren't the 15" MacBook Pro or 13.3" MacBook reasonable options? Apple's not "forcing" you to get a 17" portable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. X View Post
Still feel that my older iBook is better than any MacBook option.....I HATE THAT TINY SCREEN! Ridiculous....
Tiny? The MacBook's screen has a significantly higher resolution than any iBook and has a physically larger viewable area than all iBooks except for the 14" model.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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Kraetos
Lovable Bastard
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2007-04-04, 19:52

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
Tiny? The MacBook's screen has a significantly higher resolution than any iBook and has a physically larger viewable area than all iBooks except for the 14" model.
Some people need bigger screens because they have bad eyes; my father comes to mind. Pixel density doesn't help in this situation; actually, it's detrimental.

His comparison to the iBook, however, confused me as well.

Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.
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FFL
Fishhead Family Reunited
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Slightly Off Center
 
2007-04-04, 20:02

I think you had it right a while back....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. X View Post
OMG...so much complaining about the Apple line on here! COME ON!!!

Look, I admit that I don't have the knowledge that most people here have. All I know is that I grew up in a PC household. My parents had DOS machines and eventually Windows. There was always something buggy and annoying about every one of those computers. When it was time for me to buy my very own first computer, I chose Apple.

When I first moved out, I bought the iMac DV SE (with OS 9). That computer gave me five great years; everything worked like a dream. Earlier this year I replaced it with an iBook and eventually purchased Tiger. I've always been able to do everything I want perfectly. Since 2000, Macs have been organizing my life. I occasionally have to use Windows XP at work, and it continues to prove to me that Microsoft is AS BAD AS EVER.

I don't care about how many more inputs someone's PC has, how much better the "tech. specs" are, or how many more hardware options there are. All I know is that every single PC experience I've had has been lousy, while I have had nothing but great experiences from my Macs; they always allow me to accomplish everything I set out to do. I'm very happy with the current state Apple is in.
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Windowsrookie
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2007-04-04, 20:03

Oh snap.
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Suddoo
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2007-04-04, 20:11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraetos View Post
Some people need bigger screens because they have bad eyes; my father comes to mind. Pixel density doesn't help in this situation; actually, it's detrimental.

His comparison to the iBook, however, confused me as well.
We need resolution independant UI..
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Mr. X
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
 
2007-04-04, 21:30

1) $2200 is STILL an insane amount of money to spend for a 17" laptop. I would never spend my money on refurbished products, anyway.
2) Someone retorted by saying, "Apple is not forcing you to buy a 17". Hello?! I WANT A 17"!! Did you even read my complaint? They need to make a consumer notebook with a 17" option. Can't anyone put their bias aside for a second and realize that this is a legitimate gripe?
3) FFL: I still feel that way for the most part. However, I'm sick of having to spend a fortune to buy a computer. I think the gap has become closer between Windows and Macs, and $2000 just isn't enough to justify buying another Mac laptop.
4) Saying that I can get a high resolution on a tiny screen is not appealing to me. In fact, I find that to be an even worse situation. I don't feel like squinting at my screen.


My Mac--> iBook G4, 1.33 GHz w/ 80G HD & 1G RAM
My iPods--> 4G 60gb + Shuffle (512MB)
Retired--> iMac G3 DV SE, Original iPod w/ Scroll Wheel, iPod Shuffle (1G)
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rampancy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Fredericton, New Brunswick
 
2007-04-04, 21:52

Please try not to take this as a personal attack...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. X View Post
1) $2200 is STILL an insane amount of money to spend for a 17" laptop. I would never spend my money on refurbished products, anyway.
As you've probably heard many times before, you get what you pay for. I won't bother trying to explain the "Apple Advantage" because if you're even just half the Apple fan you make yourself out to be then you already know, and if you didn't, there are a lot of people who could explain it to you a lot better than I could. Anyway, ask around forums like this one and you'll hear a whole lot of positive feedback from a lot of satisfied 17" MBP users.

And why is it that you won't spend money on a refurbished unit? It's just as a good as a new unit; hell, it's even covered under the same warranty. Is it because many refurbs aren't top of the line machines? If you're after a consumer-level machine then you probably wouldn't need the latest and greatest anyway.

Case in point: one of my friends (my ex-girlfriend actually, who's extremely picky and fussy about what she buys) asked me for advice on a laptop to buy that had a 17" screen and didn't cost a fortune - off the cuff I directed her to a CD refurb 17" MBP - she bought it and she's been happy with it ever since.

Quote:
2) Someone retorted by saying, "Apple is not forcing you to buy a 17". Hello?! I WANT A 17"!! Did you even read my complaint? They need to make a consumer notebook with a 17" option. Can't anyone put their bias aside for a second and realize that this is a legitimate gripe?
How about this then: Apple isn't forcing you to buy a 17" MBP - they're *offering* it to you. And if you don't like what it is they're offering then there's nothing stopping you from going somewhere else with your money. A lot of consumers don't need or want 17" screens - they're not doing layout work with Quark or graphics work with Photoshop. They're not doing things which need a whole lot of screen real estate.

From the sound of things, I think you'd be more satisfied by getting a 17" laptop from Dell, or HP and installing Ubuntu on it.

Quote:
3) FFL: I still feel that way for the most part. However, I'm sick of having to spend a fortune to buy a computer. I think the gap has become closer between Windows and Macs, and $2000 just isn't enough to justify buying another Mac laptop
Again, who's saying you have to? You can get a lower-end MacBook or a refurb MBP and get a nice big external display with the money you have left over.

Quote:
4) Saying that I can get a high resolution on a tiny screen is not appealing to me. In fact, I find that to be an even worse situation. I don't feel like squinting at my screen.
So what about the low-end MBP then? I can personally vouch for that - while it seriously stretched my budget (I had originally been thinking of the mid-range MacBook), I'll say that it was worth every penny.

"The things that will destroy us are: politics without principle; pleasure without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without character business without morality; science without humanity; and worship without sacrifice."
- Mahatma Gandhi
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Ryan
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Promise Land of Trustafarians
 
2007-04-04, 21:54

You are in a small minority of users. Most consumers (i.e. those buying MacBooks) don't want a 17" screen. They want portability. A 17" notebook is aimed at the *pros* willing to sacrifice some portability, like photographers or, well, most anyone in some kind of production who's mobile. Granted, you may fall into that category, but the fact is the vast majority of a consumer's don't view a notebook that large as portable, so they go for something smaller.

Which is why you're in this situation.

Oh, and trust me, Apple refurbs are in no way a bad deal. I bought my PowerBook refurb in May of 2004 and it's still going strong.
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Brave Ulysses
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Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2007-04-04, 22:04

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
You are in a small minority of users. Most consumers (i.e. those buying MacBooks) don't want a 17" screen. They want portability.
I would strongly disagree with that. Screen size is the new penis size... and has been for some time now.


I see no reason Apple can not offer 3 versions of MacBook (13.3 inch, 15.4 inch and 17 inch) along side the 15.4 and 17 inch MacBook Pros.

Quote:
As you've probably heard many times before, you get what you pay for.
So buying a MacBook is a piece of crap because it costs less? Of course not. So why can't someone who wants/needs the features and pricepoints of a MacBook not also want a larger screen? A larger screen is far from a "professional" feature.

Personally I think a 15" MacBook for $1599 and a 17" MacBook for $1899 or even $1999 would sell very well.
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rampancy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Fredericton, New Brunswick
 
2007-04-04, 22:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses View Post
So buying a MacBook is a piece of crap because it costs less? Of course not. So why can't someone who wants/needs the features and pricepoints of a MacBook not also want a larger screen? A larger screen is far from a "professional" feature.
I guess that came out wrong - what I was responding to was that he was comparing the 17" MBP to the "decked out" 17" models from HP et al.

I'll agree with Ryan in that I think most people think about portability in a laptop, and the size of the screen second. 14"-15" screens offer a decent balance of the two, IMO. That said, I've heard rumors in the past of 15" MacBooks, along with a return of the lamented 12" form factor for the MBP. 17" would be great for a desktop replacement-type of machine, but for anything that's going to be out and carried for a significant amount of time, it's not a desirable option.

"The things that will destroy us are: politics without principle; pleasure without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without character business without morality; science without humanity; and worship without sacrifice."
- Mahatma Gandhi
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torifile
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2007-04-04, 22:25

It's not that the macbook needs improvement, it's that you want an entirely new model. Very different things. The macbook, in my opinion, is perfect for what it's designed to do. It's been a long time since I've been so satisfied with my laptop for as long as I've been with the macbook.

If it's not red and showing substantial musculature, you're wearing it wrong.
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Partial
Stallion
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Milwaukee
 
2007-04-04, 22:45

Quote:
Originally Posted by torifile View Post
It's not that the macbook needs improvement, it's that you want an entirely new model. Very different things. The macbook, in my opinion, is perfect for what it's designed to do. It's been a long time since I've been so satisfied with my laptop for as long as I've been with the macbook.
I agree, it is the perfect laptop; Just a tidbit too expensive. Knock 300 off and you have market value for it.
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Perfecting_Zero
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
 
2007-04-04, 23:06

Quote:
Originally Posted by torifile View Post
It's not that the macbook needs improvement, it's that you want an entirely new model. Very different things. The macbook, in my opinion, is perfect for what it's designed to do. It's been a long time since I've been so satisfied with my laptop for as long as I've been with the macbook.

This mirrors my feelings about the current MacBooks.
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Kraetos
Lovable Bastard
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2007-04-04, 23:52

I still think that a 15.4" MacBook would be great.

Some people use their laptops as DVD players, televisions, etc. Some people need a bigger screen due to vision problems. This is very much a legitimate market segment.

I will also agree that $2200 is high for a 17", if you don't need those extra pro features. But I think that there needs to be a 15.4" MacBook before we can even consider a 17".

Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.
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digitalprimate
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
 
2007-04-04, 23:55

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfecting_Zero View Post
This mirrors my feelings about the current MacBooks.
I've always had problems with interpreting "to mirror" as a verb. Does it mean the same as reflect, in other words they're the same or, do you mean that it is exactly the opposite of how you think of the matter.

Anyway, more on topic, I don't know... Maybe they could bring out a 20" macbook with the innards of a mac mini for the price of 999 and it still wouldn't be right. I think the main gripe the original poster has, if you look beyond the yada-yada of the screen size, is that he feels that Apple's laptops are too expensive in direct price-to-price comparison with the other main brands. And it's like this huge splinter in his eye, I can tell.

I don't like the footstomping, whiny tone of the poster. It's rather off-putting and reminds me of myself when ranting about eBay's Paypal-policy a few days ago. And that's when nobody listens and/or wants to see your point.
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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2007-04-05, 00:15

I think there's a possibility we'll see a 15" MacBook, but I highly doubt a 17" model is in the cards.

Maybe you could get a smaller notebook and then a large screen for home use? That seems to be the best combination to me.

You can get a MacBook and a 20" widescreen display for about $1,500 - the same price you said (or tried to say) the 17" HP was.

and i guess i've known it all along / the truth is, you have to be soft to be strong
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joveblue
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2007-04-05, 00:30

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses View Post
I would strongly disagree with that. Screen size is the new penis size... and has been for some time now.
In desktops/home entertainment? Yes. In notebooks? Not really.

17" is very excessive for most consumers in the notebook market. I think a 15" model would sell quite well, but 17" really is a pro/"prosumer" feature in notebooks. I really don't think the market for 17" notebooks without dedicated graphics, faster processors etc would be anything more than miniscule.
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Windowsrookie
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2007-04-05, 00:39

My first Apple laptop was a 12" PowerBook. I originally didn't want it because I thought it was too small, But to buy a bigger PowerBook was very expensive. Well, I loved the thing. 15" seems to be the standard size on the PC side. And all of them are just too big. I love having a smaller sized notebook. I just purchased a 13" MacBook and it should be delivered tomorrow.

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cosus
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2007-04-05, 00:45

I still think it's all about perception. Could be a reason why the 12" Powerbook was removed. Just when you see them side by side, it's not only the color, it's not only its features, it's also about the size. Size is a "big" psychological reference that Apple would like to keep with the Pro for that mystique of grandeur even if it's not fundamentally a Pro feature.

Retired 8 years ahead of schedule.
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julesstoop
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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2007-04-05, 01:15

Why not simply hook on an external display when at home?
Best of both worlds i.m.h.o. portability on the road, large screen size when you probably most need/want it.

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BlueRabbit
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2007-04-05, 03:15

Quote:
Originally Posted by julesstoop View Post
Why not simply hook on an external display when at home?
Best of both worlds i.m.h.o. portability on the road, large screen size when you probably most need/want it.
That's what I do too, and it works really well. It's really nice because my 12" PB (not too much smaller than a MacBook) is much easier to carry around than a 17" laptop, or even a 15". If portability isn't that much of an issue, then the external display works in the vast majority of cases.

As for people with bad eyes, the Ctrl-scroll zooming introduced in 10.4.8 works wonders.
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Mr. X
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
 
2007-04-05, 09:20

I tested out an Apple display w/ a MacBook Pro at a store, and I couldn't believe how poor the picture quality was! I thought this was going to be the perfect solution, as well, but it just looked horrible...

1) Could it be that the display only looks good when the MBP is closed?
2) I thought you can only do this and change resolution on an external monitor with the Pro line...? (Or did they change that when MB's and MBP's were introduced?)
3) Does the MB/MBP know to go back to its original resolution when unhooked from the external display?


My Mac--> iBook G4, 1.33 GHz w/ 80G HD & 1G RAM
My iPods--> 4G 60gb + Shuffle (512MB)
Retired--> iMac G3 DV SE, Original iPod w/ Scroll Wheel, iPod Shuffle (1G)
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torifile
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2007-04-05, 10:11

Mr. X, just get an HP.
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Kraetos
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boston-ish
 
2007-04-05, 10:23

I used an MPB hooked up to a 30" ACD often and it looks spectacular.

Are you sure the resolution wasn't off on the ACD?
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