[psmith2.0]

Wow. I don't know any of these younger people (one of them is from "Girls", which means I already don't like him and I hope he's a villain), but...Max von Sydow and Andy Serkis. Interesting.

So, obviously, there will be an old man (older than Jedi Master Luke). Whether he's good or bad, who knows? But Sydow has been playing old men since before he was one (Father Merrin in "The Exorcist"; Linda Blair wasn't the only character Dick Smith worked his makeup magic on), so now that he kinda is one for real, it'll be an old mentor type. Or a horrible, crusty old villain. For about eight seconds I entertained the thought that maybe he might be serving as a replacement for Alec Guinness' Obi-Wan Force ghost? But it seems ILM would have the tech to use old Guinness footage or animate stills/3D scans to recreate him if needed (because I do think he, along with Yoda) will appear in their echoey-voiced, shimmery blue form). So perhaps Sydow will be playing a brand new character? I think Hamill will cover the aged, mentor Jedi...so I'm putting $5 on Sydow taking on a villain role.

As for Serkis, we all know what he does for a living and what he's best known for. So there is obviously going to be some mo-capped central character, a la Gollum or Caesar, who'll be active/mobile enough that putting Frank Oz below the soundstage with his hand up a puppet's butt won't cut it this time around.

http://www.superherohype.com/news/30...unced#/slide/1

I'm not even gonna start writing because it'll be 11 million words (good, bad, indifferent). Just soak it in, in whatever way works for you.

And then, of course, share your thoughts below.

[drewprops]

MvS will be reprising his role as Ming the Merciless, duh.

...

[kscherer]

**Disclaimer**

All too happy Abrams is directing this. However, Lucas is still involved as a consultant, so there is still the very real possibility of completely screwing it up forEVER!

Hopefully, "consulting" means "sitting in the corner with a blank stare" and not "dipping his Jar-Jar hands in the soup!"

—

That aside, I would venture to bet that Andy Serkis' involvement is voice-over for an animated character (cannot see that squeal-monkey in any believable role otherwise). Max von Sydow is likely the bad-guy of bad guys (the top "Dark Jedi" or some such thing) whom Luke will face. The remainder are likely new Jedi / Dark Jedi. Also, I heard a scuttlebutt-ish thing about Ahsoka Tano (Daisy Ridley??) making an appearance (she apparently survived the Jedi purge). Her appearance would be beyond awesome as the most believable character from the Clone Wars series (so sad to see her go). Aside from the original characters (who will get WILD applause from fans in EVERY theater), Ahsoka is the one character I would like to see make an appearance (major appearance, not standing by a pile of dirt as a Pod Racer flashes by).

Hopefully, Harrison Ford can pull Han Solo from the depths of his memories and bring him back. Mark Hamill* and Carrie Fisher* haven't done much, so they may still feel the mojo. But Harrison Ford has been everybody since Han Solo, and I worry about his age and ability to stir that "chip on his shoulder" attitude that made Han Solo so much fun.

Edit: That Adam Driver dude looks like he could play Yoda with very little makeup.

Edit 2: Other than Anthony Daniels and Kenny Baker, I predict they use a hundred pounds of makeup on the original cast.

*Hamill and Fisher have probably been role-playing Luke and Leia in a closet since ROTJ finished original shooting

[709]

I'm really hoping that Max is a baddie. He'd be perfect to follow in the prestigious footsteps of Peter Cushing and Christopher Lee in that sort of role. Plus, since they're setting up Ep VIII & IX here, I think Adam Driver (the dude from Girls) will also be a baddie and related to him somehow (similar schnozzes).

Similarly, I expect Daisy Ridley to be a Skywalker, and maybe Oscar Isaac (Inside Llewyn Davis) as a Solo. He's about 10 years (?) older than her, and I expect that Han and Leia didn't waste too much time making a baby after Ep VI. Luke probably took some time to find someone to have a kid with, so his child I expect to be somewhat younger.

No idea what the other young cast might be in relation. John Boyega was brilliant in Attack the Block, so I like him as a pick.

You're totally right about Serkis though. There's obviously some alien sidekick involved that he's the map for.

Lastly, I'm hoping Abrams has the balls to kill off Luke, Leia and/or Han. Wouldn't that be some shit.

[709]

Originally Posted by kscherer Also, I heard a scuttlebutt-ish thing about Ahsoka Tano (Daisy Ridley??) making an appearance (she apparently survived the Jedi purge). Her appearance would be beyond awesome as the most believable character from the Clone Wars series (so sad to see her go).

Unlikely. She'd be 20 years older than Luke & Leia by that point. She died in the purge or was hunted down soon after - there's no way Palpatine would allow Anakin's apprentice to live.

[drewprops]

Was Ahsoka Tano's storyline ever explored after she refused to rejoin the Jedi?

(for anyone going "huh??" this is a storyline from 'The Clone Wars' cartoons, which are considered to be canon)


...

[709]

No, not in any canonical way. I suppose if she turns up in the upcoming Rebels series we'll know if she survived 66, but I kind've hope she doesn't. If nothing else I don't want to see her face "smoothed-over" in the new animation style.

[psmith2.0]

Here was my wish (and it has precedent and hangs together, thematically):

Luke is now the wise old Jedi and mentor (like Obi-Wan and, to some degree, even Qui-Gon). That means, of course, Luke should die nobly via lightsaber in the third act of this first installment to a new trilogy (just as Neeson and Guinness did). That would be poetic. His death is the spur/catalyst for the younger cast members to do their thing (maybe he was their teacher or whatever, or even a father or uncle).

I'm 95% sure at least one of the original cast gets the axe, but the one that would have the most dramatic edge and longterm implications would be Luke. Then he (Hamill) can appear as a Force ghost along with Yoda and whoever else in episodes 8 and 9 (just as Guinness did in "Empire" and "Jedi"). Again, kinda brings it full circle and gives it some symmetry/echo.

As for Ford, that crotchety, demented sonofabitch should've retired at least eight years ago. Despite being my favorite character in this entire saga, his Han Solo is the actually the last character I care to see...only because Ford has made such a goofy joke of himself over the years (grump, space cadet, mumbler, senility, etc. Whatever). I can't stand to see him on anything (talk show, presenting on an award or tribute show, etc.) and will turn the channel immediately at his presence).

You could see him back then (especially 1977 and 1980) and it was just "Han Solo". By the time they neutered/lamed-up his character in ROTJ (I've already written about this here a couple of times), he was already on his way out from being The Coolest Guy in the Saga. Now, 30+ years on, even more so. And, as 709 mentioned, he's played everyone under the sun at this point, so he's "bigger" than Han Solo. You see him on screen now and you're just all "that's Harrison Ford...major movie star". Too much baggage, too much screen time, etc. Indiana Jones, Jack Ryan, Rick Deckard, John Book, Richard Kimble, etc.

It's "weirdo Harrison Ford in a vest and thigh holster" at this point, vs. Han Solo. Ironically, his massive fame/presence works against him, and his character, IMO.

Hamill, he's proven himself (Joker) and I can actually see him bringing it...bearded, sad-eyed old Jedi who's lost all his mentors, many of his friends, etc. and spends his days thinking back to his youth, his time on Dagobah, fighting his old man on Cloud City, accidentally kissing his sister a few times, etc.

I'm going on record as saying Hamill is the only one who'll come out of this thing looking/acting cool and believable (and cheer-worthy).

Because I have a feeling they're gonna have Han and Leia cracking wise and mugging as an "old married couple" the entire time. Just a hunch.

[709]

Yeah, I could see Luke biting it in this one. It would be a nice setup, like you say.

The more I think about Abrams and his love of having a central, strong female character, I'm going to revise my prediction and say that the female is part of the Solo family. The actress' age isn't on IMDB, but she could pull off mid-20s, which would work alright. So Han and Leia spend a few years helping Luke fix some Rebellion-ish things before they settled down. I can live with that.

Luke is probably too busy training future Jedis in the meantime to have any family life, and I'm sure there are still dark forces around that would love to take out his family if he decided to have one.

Plus, as you mentioned, if her uncle dies in the 3rd act it could set up some neat "torn by the dark side" revenge impulses for Episode VIII.

Speaking of Abrams, one other thing he absolutely loves to put in is a love triangle, so expect young Solo chick to be torn between "bad-boy-reminds-me-of-dad" (Oscar Isaac?) and some other nice guy not nearly as interesting but has always held a flame for her since Space Highschool or some shit.

[psmith2.0]

My Abrams concerns center around those two weak, shitball "Trek" movies he made...where he established an alternate timeline (giving him license to do anything) and the best he could do was lame, overwrought retreads of stories, characters, plots, etc. that have all happened before. Especially that second one, Into Darkness, which was so idiotic it wasn't even funny.

So that makes me think he's naturally wired to seek geek/fanboy approval, which means he's gonna give Han Solo a way bigger part than warranted, and he'll spend all kinds of time with nods to the past and introducing stupid things that don't belong, or make no sense, in the Star Wars universe (time travel, etc.).

I truly wish it was anyone but him. I think he's horribly overrated and hasn't done nearly as much to earn his "geek points"/fandom as most folks want to assume. I hate to use the word "hack" (because he knows more than I ever will about moviemaking), but it's weak and predictable. And when he runs out of coherent ideas, he seems to have no problems going the stupid/weird/senseless route. He's been the recipient of an exceedingly generous pass/get-out-of-jail card for far too long, IMO.

[psmith2.0]

The other thing - and it's minor in the big scheme of it all, but it's still a little weird - is that it's having a December/holiday release and not May/spring, as all the others have. It's gonna be so weird, standing in line for this with a coat and gloves on, instead of six months later, in a T-shirt and shorts.

"Star Wars" just isn't a winter/holiday movie to me. It's the quintessential summer movie.

That, along with not seeing that opening 20th Century Fox animation/fanfare, is going to be a bit odd.

One of my favorite all-time movie moments is that drum/trumpet Fox fanfare, the Lucasfilm logo, those 2-3 beats of silence and then that big orchestra blast of the main "Star Wars" theme...bum bu-da-bum...buda bum bum bum BUM bum ba bum...". That is seared into my brain until the day I die!

[drewprops]

God, Pscates, are you going to bitch, bitch, bitch like this at our reunion party??





...

[addabox]

So back when the new episodes were announced, and there was speculation that some of the original cast might be used, I pointed out that Mark Hamill and Carrie Fischer looked like shit and that that might be kind of jarring. And also considered the idea that the studio might spare no expense to whip them into shape, using their unholy magiks and personal trainers and nutritionists and secret Illuminati skin masters and whatnot.

And apparently that has come to pass.

I don't think we can underestimate the regenerative powers that can be brought to bear by a studio with a multi-billion dollar franchise at stake. I also think we can't rule out some CG enhancement, should diet and exercise and hair dye and procedures be deemed insufficient. It's a very unusual situation-- actors who we haven't really seen in 30 years, when they embodied youthful vigor, but who haven't had the benefit (as in the case of Harrison Ford) of Active Star Pampering, which even then has its limits (as in the case of Harrison Ford, who, after all, is freaking 70).

And hey look! It appears that Hamill, at least, has embarked on his make-over. I'm assuming that the cast has known the deal for a while, so they've had some months to start the new regimen.

Old Hamill:





Holy shit I'm going to be in Star Wars again Hamill:



His skin's a little rough, but that's where the CG "makeup" comes in. Or maybe laser resurfacing? Nothing so drastic as to be scary, just enough to make him into the pleasantly "elder" version of the boy we knew. I could totally see the guy by the stage door being "Luke" in a way that isn't jarring. Carrie Fischer has gotten pretty big, but I imagine at this point she's got a live in staff tasked with fixing her up.

By the way, I have nothing against people getting older or looking their age, since I am a people myself. I just had my doubts about how happy we were going to be seeing our old friends ravaged by time, and not in the movie-grandparent-sage-elder-twinkly-eccentic coot way. Just old and busted. Here's hoping they get a new lease on life and make a lot of money.

[psmith2.0]

Originally Posted by drewprops God, Pscates, are you going to bitch, bitch, bitch like this at our reunion party?? ...

No, because it'll probably be cooler than the movie itself.

I'm cautiously optimistic. But I know how modern moviemaking often goes...this is their last change, realistically, to kinda get it right (and make up for 1999-2005). I just want it to be something I'm happy and proud to see.

I should be working on the damn thing, frankly. Because I'd have about a page-and-a-half list of stuff that would not be done, and I wouldn't be out to embarrass anyone or cheapen anything either.

[psmith2.0]

Hamill looks good in that second pic. And I'm betting he'll be all bearded-up and silver-y (at least in patches/streaks), so any crags or wrinkles will actually help sell it.

It's funny...Alec Guinness was only about 62 or so when he shot "Star Wars", but he looks like he's well into his 70's (the white hair, etc.). Hamill is now, you guessed it, 62 and still looks young. They'll have to maybe "age" him a skootch (beard, silvering, etc.).

But he looks really good in that second pic. He knows this is a big deal, and he's worked hard to be ready, I'm sure.

EDIT: I assumed the second pic was a brand new, recent shot. Is it not?

[addabox]

Yeah, the second is pretty recent.

The thing about Guinness is that he has that classic British regal thing going on. A lot of British stage actors have that, where they can move through Shakespeare, from Hamlet to Lear, still appearing a commanding presence. Just genetics, I guess. Hamill, at least as he appeared till recently, just looked like a drunk you might meet down at the corner pub. Like, you could tell that he had been cute in his younger days, but now he just looks, not so much "old" as "beat up" in a manner not typically allowed in the movies. The weight and bad skin, mostly, but those are things that respond to all the attention money can buy, so I'm figuring he'll be OK. Fischer appears to have gained and lost and gained some weight in the last few years, but I reckon she can be molded into "matronly", at least.

The parts will have to be written to account for the reality of this cast. No one wants to see another Indiana Jones and the Elderly Stunts debacle, so let Ford and Fischer be the wise old veterans, fighting their battles with strategy. Hamill still probably has some action left in him, which would be great to see. Give him a light saber and stand back.

[drewprops]

Oh my gosh... 600-something days of AppleNova fan fiction to go.... this thread will be MASSIVE....


...

[psmith2.0]

With Hamill, especially to echo the Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan thing, a beard could go a long way. It can give him an older look, but it's good camouflage for jowls, double-chins, etc. And depending on how it's trimmed and the overall length/shape, it can go a long way towards lengthening/thinning your face as well. Hamill is lucky in that he has an acceptable option - a Jedi beard - to help his older look.

Hamill's biggest flaw are the dark eye circles, which makes him look tired/beat up. That's easily addressed via cosmetic procedures or on-set makeup.

I took that photo, desaturated his hair so it's not so red, silvered the temples and gave him a silver beard. Since he wore a "Beatle cut" in the original trilogy, he should have an older-man, brushed-back look, with streaks of silver and definitely in the temples. He doesn't need to look Obi-Wan old, but he can't be boyish at this point. There should be a clean, definite gap between him and the actual young new cast.

This is very rough, but you get the idea. Have him in some robes or a modified version of his all-black ROTJ outfit.

[psmith2.0]

Originally Posted by drewprops Oh my gosh... 600-something days of AppleNova fan fiction to go.... this thread will be MASSIVE.... ...

88 gazillion pages.

[Capella]

Overall first impression:

-Not thrilled about the diversity of the casting announcement.
-Still not thrilled about Abrams.
-I agree with 'scares on Harrison Ford (though disclosure, I never much liked Han)

[drewprops]

I'm officially in an old & ornery mode, from all my posts in this thread, so forgive me.

Regarding Mark Hamill's appearance in the 2 photos: you're all crazy.

He looks exactly the same.

First photo is up close, with no makeup, in good light.

Second photo is from at least 10 feet away, in so-so light, with his head tipped down.

Ask any of the photographers here (there are 237 of them at last count).

Same guy, different picture.




...

[addabox]

How about these, cranky pants?




BTW, while I was looking for those I came across this fan art that looks to me a lot like what Paul was getting at:



I think he (and his makeup artists) could pull that off.

[psmith2.0]

There you go. That's exactly the sort of look I had in mind. A bit of silver in the temples, a beard and a less boyish (off the forehead) haircut. Perfect! That's aged Jedi Master/mentor Luke Skywalker.

I think it would be cool if Luke, in a moment of quiet contemplation (thinking about the past, evil, etc.) were to ignite his old man's red saber (and maybe his own green one as well)...one of those "we all choose our paths" kind of moments.

He rescued Vader from the second Death Star, then burned him in his armor (I assume Anakin was inside). But you know he kept the lightsaber! No way he burned that.

Even better, have it serve as a rescue/backup saber that he goes to after something/someone destroys his green one? You have him on the ground, saber destroyed or lost, about to be killed...then he reaches out with the Force and into his hand flies his dad's red saber, which he uses to fight back and save himself (maybe).

People would lose their minds! Nicely mirrors evil, pre-armor Anakin using his blue saber at the end of ROTS...here you have his good son, using his red saber in the service of good. It also echoes how Anakin eventually saved Luke by attacking the Emperor...this 30-year-relic of his father's, sitting on a shelf or in a trunk, saves his life (for a while, anyway).

Little moments like that could really be powerful, done right. It both serves as a bit of geek-out fan-service, but it does so in an interesting, unexpected way.

[psmith2.0]

BTW, once principal filming starts in two weeks, I'm going on self-imposed lockdown and a spoiler-free existence for the next 19 months (gonna try like hell, anyway). Certain movie or fan sites will be deleted from my Safari bookmarks so I won't even be tempted!

So I'm getting my opinions/wishes/concerns/ideas out NOW, before I have to bid this thread adieu in a few weeks.

The best shot I have at enjoying this thing is to experience it like I did in 1977, where I went into it completely cold, clueless and out-of-the-loop. I've used the Internet to ruin movies for me far too much this past decade or so. Once mid-May arrives, I'm going off the grid, Star Wars-wise.

I want to sit in the theater in December 2015 and, for once, truly have no idea what's coming! This movie, out of all others coming in the next 1-2 years, warrants and deserves that approach.

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by drewprops I'm officially in an old & ornery mode … so forgive me.

This, and

*** Disclaimer of all disclaimers ***

If you don't want to hear Star Wars bashing, please skip this post.

__


So, I was thinking good and hard about this whole Episode 7 thing when it occurred to me that it will be the first Star Wars movie I am not excited about, and here's why.

Star Wars for me is a childhood nostalgia thing. I loved it when I was a kid. We saw the movies several times (my dad never took us to see any movie, let alone a single movie several times).

When The Empire Strikes Back was released, we were pretty excited, and when Return of the Jedi was announced, holy cow!!

Then George started monkeying with things. There were the CGI updates (some good, some crap) and the "Han shoots last" controversy. There were the added dancers, the storm troopers dropped in here and there, modified explosions, etc, all to cover for poor effects/story telling from the original movies.

Then things seemed to get better. There was a new trilogy and I stood in line like other ding-dongs and praised and worshipped at the alter of George. The new movies were awesome!

Until I watched them a second time. With the excitement worn off, I was able to actually pay attention to the story. Or, for lack of a better way to put it, the complete and entire absence of a story.

Now, I can't even watch Star Wars without rolling my eyes. Only the completely awesome and just-believeable-enough Ahsoka Tano has held my Star Wars attention. Every other character, every story line, every detail has left gaping holes in my love for Star Wars.

The supposedly awesome Jedi can't win a light-saber battle to save their lives (other than Obi Wan's defeat of Darth Horny, the young, strong Jedi seem only capable of beating old guys (Anikin beating old Dookoo, Darth beating old Obi Wan, Luke beating old Darth, etc.)) and stupid, court jester robots who apparently can't communicate without voice. Even the deaths of Darth Maul and Grievous ended in out-of-ideas, knee-jerk fashion that left me thinking Obi Wan just got lucky and really wasn't that great of a warrior.

The Jedi are outsmarted, out fought, out thought, out-forced at every turn. Pathetic.

Then, there is the Anikin story that is so unbelievable it just defies reason. I can't even begin to get started, but so there's this 10-year-old brat who is smart and stuff and he wins this race and gets to be a Jedi, only he's too old, but the Jedi break their rules to satisfy the plot. So this kid goes home and he's supposed to turn evil so to make the plot work he kills a bunch of desert animals who took his mom and then feels really bad about it (remember, this all happens before the "best star pilot in the galaxy" gets shot down for the 57th time). Then he falls in love and the ONLY fricking reason he actually turns evil is "save Padmé"? So, yeah, to save Padmé he turns all evilly on a damn dime and slaughters an entire temple's worth of child-jedi to satisfy the plot while his evil-boss-who's-gonna-save-Padmé says "66" and the relatively cool Clone dudes suddenly-and-without-explanation (until later in the Clone Wars series) turn on their Jedi overlords and blast them into oblivion because the super evil Syth can't do it on their own until a new series is released sometime in the long-time-ago future.

Now the original series is baked into an upside down pyramid of plot-piling that leaves the once evil and forbidding Darth Vader as nothing more than a spoiled brat in dark clothes who needs to kill off that last remaining Jedi-dude who's too old to fight with an erect light saber and commits suicide so Luke can become all bad-ass and become a Jedi even though he's waaaaaay too old but the Jedi break their rules to satisfy the plot and so he goes on to lose his hand to "daddy" who wasn't really daddy at all until George made a bunch of money and needed to keep the plot moving forward so he could go back and write back story for some long-time-ago future series that would so foul up the first movie so as to render it inert and crippled, but that wasn't until after Han Solo made buddy with some teddy bears who's sticks and stones turned the tide of war against a bumbling horde of blaster-weilding-storm-trooper-clone-dudes who used to be called Rex and Chops and other such cool names but now go by 66458 and 54321 and such and can't shoot straight to save their lives. Fortunately, the Millennium Falcon that should have been destroyed in grand fashion manages to shoot straight and blow up the new Death Star the size of a moon but which only took a few months to build. Then there's this big celebration to end the whole thing, but now there's more movies because money.

And all the good guys live, because we can't kill off the good guys lest the children start crying.

So, now a bunch of old people need a new enemy so there's Dark Jedi who will likely be far more powerful than the bumbling Jedi who never seem to be even half a step ahead of their enemies, who walk into one trap after another, constantly get kidnapped and tortured by the same guys over and over and over while being completely incapable of holding onto a single, solitary prisoner for any conceivable reason while building the least escape-proof prisons ever imagined and retreating from every fight because "Jedi don't seek revenge" even whilst the bad guys lay waste to one system after another yada yada yada.

In short, this Episode 7 thing is gonna have to win a whole show's worth of Oscars if it wants my attention. Regardless of my getting a bit caught up in it, I just can't stand the movies any more. Episodes 1-3 completely ruined Star Wars for me. Yes, the entire thing. I cannot watch 1-3 without rolling my eyes from the very first scene when all those zillions of Hollywood dollars left Nute Gunray and Rune Haako with silly, 20th century flappy lips while the hoser Jar Jar Binks was animated to perfection. I can't handle the "I truly, deeply love you" and "I love you! No, I love you" and the "midichlorians made me do it" crap. Now, when I try to watch episodes 4-6, I force myself through it knowing that Darth Vader's entire premise of evil-bad-guy is built on fraudulent reasons that defy belief. His entire empire is built upon "save Padmé" even after he kills her. And, oh, yeah, there's that "Padmé has given up the will to live" BS where she just loves little Annie so much that she kills herself immediately after the birth of her children because STUPID!! But, hey, the kids are whisked off to the remotest corners of the long-time-ago and plopped down into their plot roles for the original trilogy just in time for 7 and a bunch of fat, old people to get their CGI makeup in an attempt to draw our dollars back into the most inconceivable universe ever imagined.

As far as the time travel thing is concerned, that's the one plot element I'm not worried about. While time travel is what writers use when they run out of ideas, it could kind of work with Star Trek because they were time-traveling in every other episode already, anyway. We kind of got used to it. Star Wars, not so much. There is no time travel in that franchise, so any use of it would be met with absolute scorn and rejection. Lucas and Star Wars are already on the hot seat/in the crosshairs on this one, so time travel would absolutely kill it. Dead!

Things that will immediately turn me off:

If Han Solo uses the force even once, I'm done!
If Leia uses a light saber even once, I'm done!
If Luke uses a light saber the way Obi Wan did in Episode 4, I'm done
If Luke is married, I'm done (attachment goes against the Jedi code)
If anyone says "I truly, deeply love you" I'm done
If C-3PO has rocket feet, I'm done
If everybody lives, I'm done
If some kid is deemed too old for Jedi training and gets trained anyway, I'm done
If a Jedi resorts to blasters to win a duel, I'm done
If Darth Maul shows up—again—I'm done
If, in fact, ANY past evil guy shows up for rehash, I'm done
If the Jedi don't whip it out and kick some serious ass, I'm done
If any aliens have 20th-century flappy lips, I'm done
If Jar Jar or likeness, I'm done

I could go on and on

Sorry to be long and negative, but, seriously. Since Episode 3, I won't pay $12/seat for Star Wars anything for any reason. Episode 7 will find its way to our local dollar theaters just in time for no lines in the Spring, and I will reluctantly take my Star Wars fan of a daughter and suffer through more one-liners for the sake of one-liners. I will deal with the fanboy nonsense for the sake of fanboy nonsense and I will come out the other other end feeling a bit nostalgic.

BUT!!

This time, I will go into the movie with very low expectations. Either it will deliver my low expectations and who cares, or it will win an oscar and my mind will be changed.

Until then, Star Wars is nothing but a childhood memory I can no longer stand to watch.

Too bad Lucas is so good at special effects, and so unbelievably crappy at human dialogue . Glad he sold out, not glad he's still around the franchise. I think his presence will be the undoing of the whole thing. Too much "Han is this" and "Luke is that" and "Leia trained as a Jedi in the summer of '65" and too many one-liners and surprises and jokes that don't work.

If Han Solo does a tumble-down-the-stairs-while-shooting-bad-guys, I'm done! Dude is old! A Jedi might get away with that, but an old-as-the-dirt drifter/smuggler? Hell's no!

Oh, and if Han Solo is a Jedi? You guessed it, I'm done! He's waaaaaaaaaaay the hell too old to "begin the training".

—

Now, Grey, don't go burning down my castle or anything, k?

[kscherer]

Originally Posted by addabox BTW, while I was looking for those I came across this fan art that looks to me a lot like what Paul was getting at: I think he (and his makeup artists) could pull that off.

Yes. That would work. Now, for the dialogue!

[drewprops]

Originally Posted by kscherer ....all the things....

OMG Whammer HOW DID YOU GET IN MY HEAD?????????????


...

[psmith2.0]

Why are you yelling at me for bringing up similar things, but when he does it he's "inside your head"?!

Doofus.

We all have the same underlying concerns, no doubt.

Here's why I'm (cautiously) optimistic...seven specific reasons:

1) Lawrence Kasdan writing the screenplay (he wrote a pretty good "Star Wars" movie years ago ). He's also written quite a few other "better than most" screenplays and stories. An actual writer is helming this, someone with a proven, known track record for playing in this particular sandbox and delivering the goods. It isn't George Lucas making crazy stuff up, out of the blue, on his legal pad.

2) I've read in several places that physical sets and models are being built, and CGI is to be an accent, not the centerpiece, for all the special effects; apparently Abrams is looking to do this somewhat "old school" where it makes sense, in an effort to recapture that look and tone of the originals. This is a good thing, and goes a long way toward distancing itself from the prequels...where nothing and nobody looked real or "there".

3) Lucas, while he may be around for general advising/mascot status, is no longer running the show; we saw what happened last time he was given free reign. That isn't the case now, so I can only take that as a positive. Sadly, had someone just been around to tell him throughout 1997 and 1998 "whoa, whoa...that's the most idiotic thing I've ever heard! It's ridiculous, lame and it sucks and it'll be mocked and ridiculed for years to come. No way we're doing that! Try again, and be serious this time...", the prequels might've turned out better.

4) For someone like Ford to return, knowing how adamant he was about Solo getting killed off in ROTJ, makes me think that one of the stipulations to his involvement is just that; don't get me wrong, I'm not for killing a major character just to do it and "be all dark and shit" (I'm not 15)...BUT that such an action/event might genuinely lend some true, needed gut-wrenching weight and drama - and motivation/spark - for the story and remaining characters. If you're going to bring this all full circle, 35+ years after-the-fact, then there needs to be a mature, realistic angle to appropriately drive/serve the story. People will tear up when they see an old friend, and hero, go down...but they're drawn in and invested, and they're going to stick around to see what happens as a result.

5) The prequels are so universally despised/ridiculed, you know good and well that all efforts will be made to learn from, and sidestep, the horrible mistakes and idiocy contained in those three movies; I think everyone involved, even if they would never say so out loud, is looking to redeem the property and put it back on solid, respectable footing. It's a matter of pride and ego among the involved parties that they were among the ones who helped right the ship and make something as close as possible in tone/enjoyment to the originals. It's personal to some, I'm sure. In fact, I think events and characters from the prequels won't even be mentioned or overtly adhered to. No talk of Anakin, the Clones, Padme, Naboo, Jar Jar, battle droids, midichlorians, Dooku, etc. That will be this saga's own, quiet little way of saying "don't dwell on all that; we're doing it the way it should've been done...focus on the now".

6) It's all been "reset", with the announcement the other day about how the Expanded Universe doesn't apply or isn't a roadmap. That means they've been given a clean slate to do whatever they want in the service of a good, compelling story...without having to kill themselves to lock it into 30 years of side work, adventures, motivations, tales, etc. I see this as a good thing, not having to adhere to all that stuff. Most people aren't even aware of all that and couldn't care less. If its absence makes it easier for Abrams, Kasdan, etc. to create a really good, standalone trilogy - where they're free to introduce, or remove, characters, worlds, vehicles, events, etc. as they see fit...good! I can imagine nothing tougher than trying to create a new saga and somehow shoehorning it into three-plus decade's worth of God-knows-what (knowing that the fanboys and hardcore nerds are going to be picking it apart, pointing out the lapses in continuity/timelines, etc.). Screw all that craziness and nonsense...who needs that hassle and grief?!

7) Disney has nurtured and guided the Pixar and Marvel stuff pretty well, making those enjoyable, solid and satisfying entertainment. They've found a nice middle-ground, IMO, between art and commerce. I have to believe that they're seeking to do the same with this "Star Wars" property...to put out well-made, quality stuff that is only going to bring them more success and $$$. They're not looking to be all hack-y with this; they can't afford to be.

At this point, factoring in all seven of the above, I have more reason to be optimistic than pessimistic.







*I still think it needs to be Luke who is tragically killed and goes out a hero, fighting the good fight, as did Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan; his death is bigger/more meaningful, big picture: a Jedi, the last of his era...becoming one with the Force along with Obi-Wan and Yoda, having his best friend and sister around to mourn, and avenge, him. The death of a Force-wielding Jedi has bigger impact in such a saga than a wise-cracking smuggler (this isn't the Harrison Ford show, despite how he went and got bigger and more famous than all the others combined; this is a Skywalker saga, it says so from Lucas' earliest drafts). I'd like to see Han and Leia fly off together, in the Falcon, at the end of Episode VII, having turned things over to the youngsters to carry though in installments 8 and 9. Maybe they realize, fittingly, they're too old and close to the situation (and would likely get themselves killed). Perhaps a return from them at the very end of episode 9, as a final goodbye (along with Force ghost Luke)?

[zippy]

Originally Posted by kscherer Things that will immediately turn me off: If Han Solo uses the force even once, I'm done! If Leia uses a light saber even once, I'm done! If Luke uses a light saber the way Obi Wan did in Episode 4, I'm done If Luke is married, I'm done (attachment goes against the Jedi code) If anyone says "I truly, deeply love you" I'm done If C-3PO has rocket feet, I'm done If everybody lives, I'm done If some kid is deemed too old for Jedi training and gets trained anyway, I'm done If a Jedi resorts to blasters to win a duel, I'm done If Darth Maul shows up—again—I'm done If, in fact, ANY past evil guy shows up for rehash, I'm done If the Jedi don't whip it out and kick some serious ass, I'm done If any aliens have 20th-century flappy lips, I'm done If Jar Jar or likeness, I'm done

I won't go so far as to say "I'm done" but I completely agree otherwise.

[zippy]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 As for Ford, that crotchety, demented sonofabitch should've retired at least eight years ago. Despite being my favorite character in this entire saga, his Han Solo is the actually the last character I care to see...only because Ford has made such a goofy joke of himself over the years (grump, space cadet, mumbler, senility, etc. Whatever). I can't stand to see him on anything (talk show, presenting on an award or tribute show, etc.) and will turn the channel immediately at his presence).

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 My Abrams concerns center around those two weak, shitball "Trek" movies he made...where he established an alternate timeline (giving him license to do anything) and the best he could do was lame, overwrought retreads of stories, characters, plots, etc. that have all happened before. Especially that second one, Into Darkness, which was so idiotic it wasn't even funny.

Good thing it's all subjective. I have enjoyed Ford as Indiana Jones, Jack Ryan, and a few other non-recurring characters in various movies.

And I love both of Abram's Star Trek movies.