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Will *you* dual boot?


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View Poll Results: Will you dual-boot Windows on your Manintel?
Absolutely not! 20 18.69%
No, it's too much trouble. 13 12.15%
I'm thinking about it. 20 18.69%
Yes, for the novelty. 6 5.61%
Yes, I need to run Windows programs. 27 25.23%
Yes, I love Windows! 1 0.93%
Yes, I play games. 20 18.69%
Voters: 107. You may not vote on this poll

Will *you* dual boot?
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shell
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Join Date: Oct 2005
 
2006-03-16, 07:24

For long enough there's been speculation about dual-booting Windows on the new Macintels, and now that it has become a reality, the burning question is how many people will actually do it. I was wondering what the magority plans on doing, hence the poll.
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chucker
 
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2006-03-16, 07:28

It would help if you actually did add a poll.

As for myself: I'll likely install OS X as my main OS, with Ubuntu+GNOME (or possibly Darwin+GNOME if the Linux kernel pisses me off as much as usual) and Windows XP on the side.
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iCraig
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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2006-03-16, 07:31

When I do get a Macintel, no I wouldn't even want to.

It'd be like getting £1500 hardware and smearing it with sh*t.
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BFG
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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2006-03-16, 07:32

Depending on the process and the risks involved... for the sake of playing HL2 or BF2 id be damn tempted...
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mattf
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2006-03-16, 07:33

Where's the "Why would I bother when I can run a virtual PC and get to run several environments at once" option?

I know, I know. I shouldn't complain about the poll options etc. etc.

Seriously though, I'm looking for education here. What are the benefits of dual-booting over virtual machines?
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Majost
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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2006-03-16, 07:53

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattf
Seriously though, I'm looking for education here. What are the benefits of dual-booting over virtual machines?
Primarily, speed. Although I could see VPC (or a clone) getting close to native speeds in a virtual environment now that it's on x86.

And then compatibility. Virtual environments have had their troubles... especially with graphics. But again, it can be done; it just hasn't yet for Mac.
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mooty
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2006-03-16, 07:53

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattf
What are the benefits of dual-booting over virtual machines?
1) Virtual PC doesnt work on Intel Macs at the moment...
2) Virtual PC currently does not support/emulate 3D graphics cards, so you cannot play games

2 good enough reasons for me to dual boot
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Franz Josef
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2006-03-16, 07:56

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattf
Seriously though, I'm looking for education here. What are the benefits of dual-booting over virtual machines?
It makes all the difference in the world. Emulation is just plain slow (even Rosetta as best in class only performs well on an Intel Mac because of the inherent speed of the Core Duo) and in the case of VPC, can cause all sorts of issues with graphics. Where there is the choice, running "native" will always win hands down.
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chucker
 
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2006-03-16, 07:59

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franz Josef
Emulation is just plain slow (even Rosetta as best in class only performs well on an Intel Mac because of the inherent speed of the Core Duo) and in the case of VPC, can cause all sorts of issues with graphics. Where there is the choice, running "native" will always win hands down.
But it wouldn't be emulation; it would be virtualization. Big difference in performance, and if done right, graphics isn't an issue either.

Of course, no such solution exists yet.
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Franz Josef
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2006-03-16, 08:03

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker
But it wouldn't be emulation; it would be virtualization.
Oh *lightly slaps chucker* we are playing a little with semantics here and I take the point the graphics should be easier than now - but we are still talking about running with Windows within an artificially created environment (be it "emulated" or "virtualised").
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naashraf
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2006-03-16, 08:07

I might do. It depends on the process involved to install it. If it is straight forward enough with no effects on Mac OS X I might go for it.

Machine:PowerBook 12" Processor:1.5GHz PowerPC G4 Memory:1.25GB HD:100GB OS:Mac OS 10.4.8
Entertainment:iPod 4G Memory:20GB
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chucker
 
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2006-03-16, 08:20

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franz Josef
we are still talking about running with Windows within an artificially created environment
Oh, sure, but there's a huge performance difference between emulating an environment with a wholly different CPU type (including reverse endianness) and emulating an environment with almost exactly the same desired hardware.
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Franz Josef
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2006-03-16, 08:36

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker
... (including reverse endianness)...
I haven't heard that phrase in years - not since the days of the 6502. I think we're agreed that the VPC-thingy will run much more efficiently on an Intel Mac (in my own experience with VPC on my PB, it could hardly run less efficiently). This may be academic in any case - with a little give and take and EFI support from Redmond - VPC (or whatever it would be called) would simply cease to have a market.
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chucker
 
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2006-03-16, 09:18

I wouldn't say that. Both VMWare and Virtual PC for Windows have survived for many years purely with the functionality of virtualizing the system that could easily run natively on the same hardware.

The market for that is clearly there.
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Franz Josef
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2006-03-16, 09:36

Other than for niche uses, I'm struggling to imagine many people running VPC on a Mac if a native boot is an option. We're talking up something that the majority of people simply wouldn't do.
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chucker
 
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2006-03-16, 09:41

I feel like such a niche

Oh well. Always been an outsider.

In all seriousness, yes, I realize it isn't gonna be a very widespread thing to do.
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rollercoaster375
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2006-03-16, 09:46

Yes, I will, as long as we're going to have hardware accellerated graphics

I'll probably run a Linux Distro as well.
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beardedmacuser
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2006-03-16, 09:49

I used Windows 2000 using VMWare running on Linux for years, before I switched to OS X. I didn't come across a single Windows work app that performed badly in VMWare (the high performance stuff was all Linux native).

But of course gaming is a different matter. It seems the reason for dual booting in 90% of cases is to play games. And by the time you've bought a copy of Windows with which to dual boot you could have bought an Xbox or Playstation or something like that for much the same cash.
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dviant
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2006-03-16, 10:06

Although I'd prefer to not have to, if I had an Intel Mac I'd dual boot. Mostly due to the need of testing websites in IE on Windows. Being able to play PC games on my Mac would be convenient as well, but I've been trying to support Mac-based games as much as possible.

Shhhh, I can't see!
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mattf
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2006-03-16, 10:09

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franz Josef
Other than for niche uses, I'm struggling to imagine many people running VPC on a Mac if a native boot is an option. We're talking up something that the majority of people simply wouldn't do.
You're right, not the majority. But here's one simple reason why I would run VPC on a Mac.

From time to time I develop websites. On my Mac. My Mac that doesn't have Internet Explorer (thank God). Unfortunately, I have to test Internet Explorer because, although it's a steaming stream of horse piss, the vast majority of people use it. If VPC ran at even half-way decent speeds, I'd use it to test IE, rather than a separate Windows machine.

Of course, as many people have pointed out, VPC doesn't run at half-way decent speeds. I knew that before I posted my original question. But, if (rather than when) Microsoft release an Intel Binary of VPC, I had high hopes of it being at least somewhat faster than the crippled tortoise it is now.

Thanks to the person who mentioned 3D Graphics Cards as one reason for not using VPC. That was something that I hadn't considered.

EDIT: Beaten by dviant. Grrrrr....
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rollercoaster375
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2006-03-16, 10:11

Quote:
Originally Posted by dviant
Although I'd prefer to not have to, if I had an Intel Mac I'd dual boot. Mostly due to the need of testing websites in IE on Windows. Being able to play PC games on my Mac would be convenient as well, but I've been trying to support Mac-based games as much as possible.
I forgot about IE - yet another reason :P. Isn't DarWINE trying to get IE usable from OS X?

As for Mac games, a Dx9 game cannot be ported over to OS X, so there is little need to worry about that... However, with OpenGL games, waiting for a Mac port wouldn't be too far from reality =D
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thegelding
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2006-03-16, 10:17

i didn't see "fuck no" as a possible answer

g
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beardedmacuser
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2006-03-16, 10:50

If I could find suitable alternatives to Microsoft Excel and Remote Desktop Connection then I could achieve the holy grail of a totally Microsoft-free Mac. Some of us don't want to be adding more and more Microsoft dependence on our Macs.
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chucker
 
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2006-03-16, 10:53

I'm not sure if Citrix has a free client for the Mac, but if they do, that should work. There's also RDesktop, which would probably run just fine inside X11.
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rollercoaster375
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2006-03-16, 11:04

Quote:
Originally Posted by beardedmacuser
If I could find suitable alternatives to Microsoft Excel and Remote Desktop Connection then I could achieve the holy grail of a totally Microsoft-free Mac. Some of us don't want to be adding more and more Microsoft dependence on our Macs.
I've been playing around with VNC, and it works great. However, I'm not familiar with Remote Desktop Connection, or what it does :x
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Satchmo
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Join Date: Aug 2004
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2006-03-16, 11:07

I suppose if it's as simple as installing a patch. Don't want to deal with Terminal or some complicated process.
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beardedmacuser
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2006-03-16, 11:17

Quote:
Originally Posted by rollercoaster375
I've been playing around with VNC, and it works great. However, I'm not familiar with Remote Desktop Connection, or what it does :x
Remote Desktop Client for Mac
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alcimedes
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2006-03-16, 11:30

I added the option to dual boot exclusively for games. I'm interested to see how much of a reason that is for people to dual boot.
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Banana
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2006-03-16, 11:59

Though not my "ideal" solution, I definitely would want to dual boot to run my Windows-only CADs.

Ideally, I would like CADs to be sandboxed, a la WINE and allow for easy switchining between both OS. But at least I can say that MBP is within my reach now.
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mattf
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2006-03-16, 12:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker
...Citrix...
CITRIX?? Are you deranged or just plain perverted?

Citrix. I vomit on Citrix. I feel dirty just seeing that name. I'm off to shower; must get the stench off.
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