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The Obligatory 2010-2011 Rink of Pain Thread


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The Obligatory 2010-2011 Rink of Pain Thread
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Moogs
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2010-07-25, 22:38

I know, I know... it's not even August 1st yet but the reality is we have to figure out what we're doing. Look I can't help it. They just painted the ice at the Consol Energy Center an I'm freakin' pumped. Freakin amazing facility. Camp can't start soon enough.

Commish, players, keepers, the whole nine... we need to nail it all down. I will recuse myself for commish role since I've already done that more than once. Ely did a great job so I'm fine with him keeping on if he wants to, or if we want to give everyone a shot or whatever that's fine too. I leave that up to you guys.

But mainly we have to figure out the players and keeper setup because part of that was the potential to trade draft picks for players, etc. Now that most of the FA frenzy is over I'd be OK with opening things up for trades soon (once we know how we're handling the draft -- how many, what order, etc).

I do think the ESPN system, despite its quirks, worked out OK. Was definitely nice to have those extra stats and keeper setup. Discuss.

...into the light of a dark black night.
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BuonRotto
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2010-07-26, 08:14

I want in again this year.
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Moogs
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2010-07-26, 08:51

You better...
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Elysium
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2010-07-30, 09:25

Looks like FH goes live again in a couple of weeks, so I guess we had best get started.

Last Season's Participants:
Elysium (SoE)
Moogs (Chucks)
Foj (Gigs)
Kieran (Fudgies)
Wyatt (Pasta)
Stone (BS)
Burbs (Iceburbs)
Chinney (Rats)
Jarad (TFL)- non Novian
Don (TD)- non Novian

Outside of Stone (RIP) we should have everybody back. With Rotto's re-addition we're back at ten teams. I've got some guys on deck that may want in, but we know how well that worked last season.

Right now Rowdy and Inaction have first dibs on getting back in.

Keeper situation:

As we stand right now after the extensive discussion from last season we've got the following keeper options.

For a 10 team league (Rotto takes over Stone's team):
- Keep 6 forwards (any combination of C/LW/RW)
- Keep 4 D/G ( either 3D and 1G or 2D and 2G, no other combinations)
- Hold normal snake draft to fill out rosters

For a 12 team league (Rotto and 2 new members):
- 3 new guys will have the option to take over Stone's team or draft a new roster (If Stone's team is not picked up then his roster goes FA)
- Owners with established rosters will keep 3 forwards (C/LW/RW), 1D, 1G.
- 3 new owners will hold a predraft expansion draft to select their 5 keepers from the FA pool (including rostered, nonkept players) or have the option of trading draft picks for currently rostered players.
- Once everybody has 5 keepers, the draft proceeds as normal at a later date.

Scoring categories:
- Skaters: G, A, +/-, Hits, Blocked Shots, PPP, SHP
- Goalies: W, SVs, GAA, SO

Commish duties:
- I don't mind taking care of things this year.
- Moogs has been a great commish for a number of years and I think his schedule is much more flexible than mine.

Formerly known as cynical_rock
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Moogs
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2010-07-30, 12:12

Good summation. I thought for the 12 team keeper setup we were just going to limit the D and G? I can't remember for sure... it's been a while. BTW I think the league page is year-round. We can still go in there and change keepers, whatever. Probably make trades too?

Speaking of which any thoughts on trading picks for existing players?

AFA Jarad, I think he's still in; I'll check with him.

AFA Commish, I don't want to volunteer for that until everyone else has had their say / a turn to volunteer, since I've already done it. Ely if your schedule is looking bad and no one else wants to take on the task, I can step in for a season. Otherwise I think you'd do a great job, as evidenced by your detailed summation / powers of recall. I really don't know what my schedule will be like this fall. I may end up working two jobs if my wife's department gets axed as a result of a recent merger (likely). If that happens I will be a bad option for commish.

...into the light of a dark black night.
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Elysium
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2010-07-30, 13:13

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moogs View Post
Good summation. I thought for the 12 team keeper setup we were just going to limit the D and G? I can't remember for sure... it's been a while. BTW I think the league page is year-round. We can still go in there and change keepers, whatever. Probably make trades too?

Speaking of which any thoughts on trading picks for existing players?

AFA Jarad, I think he's still in; I'll check with him.
After digging through the keeper discussion the consensus seemed to be:

Quote:
I think if we expanded the league we could do an expansion draft. Where existing teams can only protect 5 players with the rest of their roster fair game for the new teams.

So basically this year we could do a 10 player keeper with limits on scarce positions like D + G. If we get some new members we could structure an expansion draft as such:
1) Draw up a random draft order for all 10 teams
2) Existing teams pick 5 of their 10 keepers that they want to protect.
3) New teams draft 5 players from available free agents (including keepers that are not protected)
4) Once teams have five players each all teams will start to draft in their appropriate draft position with all nonprotected keepers in play and any free agents left over from the season.

This way if the league stays the same next year, teams that drafted and traded well are rewarded with strong rosters. If we expand new teams will have a shot at some top talent and juggernauts will come back to the rest by losing some of their strong keepers.
The league page is still live, so player trades can take place now. The only thing we can't do is trade draft picks. We have to wait until the league is renewed and I can enable it again.

I think the draft pick trading will be key if we have new teams coming in.

For example: We have two new teams that need to draft 5 keepers before the regular draft. Team A is slated to pick the 1st keeper from the FA Pool (including nonprotected keepers). Say I couldn't keep Ovie, and he would be in the FA pool for the expansion draft. I could entertain offers from Team B to trade him for draft picks rather than letting him get taken by Team A first overall.

Formerly known as cynical_rock
censeo tentatio victum
There is no snooze button on a cat.
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Moogs
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2010-07-30, 13:19

Exactamundo...
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Moogs
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2010-07-31, 20:53

All right dudes, just a whif of my bad-ass trading block... so when you get that draft pick a spot or two ahead of me, remember these names...

Iginla
Toews
Giroux
Kronwall
Martin

...and several others. Calling you... they're calling you. Can you hear them? They're whispering "Traaaade for meeee. Traaaade.... it makes you whollle again."

...into the light of a dark black night.
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Elysium
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2010-08-03, 13:14

Slight update:

Returning owners (9):
Elysium (SoE)
Moogs (Chucks)
Foj (Gigs)
Kieran (Fudgies)
Wyatt (Pasta)
Burbs (Iceburbs)
Chinney (Rats)
Jarad (TFL)- non Novian
Don (TD)- non Novian

Potential new owners (3):
- Rotto
- One of my college buds who is also a die-hard Wings fan. Sort of the perfect fill in for Stone's squad.
- One of the co-workers that backed out last year, who told me all winter that he was mad he backed out.

If this becomes the line-up for next season, pending full on return and no other newcomers, then we'll switch to the 5 keeper setup and an expansion draft. For those 5 keepers we should probably limit to one of each position (1C, 1LW, 1RW, 1D, 1G).

Also keep in mind if you guys wish to add/subtract additional stat categories for this year.

Formerly known as cynical_rock
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Maciej
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2010-08-03, 13:27

Christ, it feels like the season just ended. Have fun all!
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Moogs
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2010-08-04, 09:23

Sounds like Ely found a couple new guys? Verify commitment level, get that draft order set and let the trading begin! The Chuks have world-class Centers and D, as well as quality W and G to offer for those early picks. Chinney, get your hockey helmet dusted off and shined up for the annual draft order ceremony.

Just imagine a package like Toews, Iginla and Kronwall skating for your squad, leaving destruction in their wake!

Or perhaps you are a homer and want to see talents like Mike Richards and Claude Giroux on your squad...

...the possibilities are endless. If you're all about positioning your team for greatness, you can't afford not to check the Chuks' roster this off-season. And no this is not Billy Mays, returned from the great sales floor beyond.

...into the light of a dark black night.
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Moogs
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2010-08-04, 09:38

In all seriousness though (I'll ask this here too because more people might see the answer), how would the trades work?

Can you assign individual picks per round? So for example if I draw the 10th pick and have picks 10 and 15 (because of the snake order)... can i trade my 15th pick for say the 20th pick and a player... then that player gets added to my keeper list, even if it's over the standard amount?

What would be really crazy is if we could do it during the draft but that would increase draft time by at least an hour I would think, as people mulled over deals. Would be kind of cool but at the same time might be harder for some to get that much time free. That would obviously require turning off teh ESPN "pick clock" so there's no 90 second limit... or changing it to some other limit like 3 minutes.

...into the light of a dark black night.
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kieran
@kk@pennytucker.social
 
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2010-08-04, 10:43

Just popping in to say that I still want in for next season.
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Moogs
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2010-08-04, 16:48

Ehhhhxcellent!

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Wyatt
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2010-08-04, 21:42

I'm in. The baby is a little more manageable now, so it's easier for me to stay involved than it was last year. Can we just sign in and pick our keepers? I don't remember how many we decided everyone should get to keep.

Twitter: bwyatt | Xbox: @playsbadly | Instagram: @bw317
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Moogs
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2010-08-04, 22:10

It's looking like 5 right now (1 at every position) since two more guys may be added to the league. Still wondering about the trade stuff but maybe I'm missing something obvious.

...into the light of a dark black night.
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Chinney
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2010-08-05, 09:15

The Rats are in again of course. Thanks to Ely for volunteering again for Commish. He did a fine job last year, keeping up Moogs tradition. I am happy to stay with ESPN. Although it has its pros and cons compared to Yahoo, overall I think that ESPN is better. The general rules outlined above for keepers and trades seem fine for me. The only thing I would suggest that any trading system for draft picks for players be kept fairly simple. I can see things going balls up if we go for a complex system.

Oh yeah, one more thing....as I say every year: "The Rats pre-declare victory! The rest of you should feel free to concede at any time."

When there's an eel in the lake that's as long as a snake that's a moray.
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curiousuburb
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2010-08-05, 10:22

The IceBurbs will be back.

Be afeared.

Still want more G keepers, though.
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Elysium
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2010-08-05, 10:27

Good to see that everybody is on board. I expect full participation this season, so I'm not setting the rosters of the bottom feeders everyday.

As to the trading:- Trades during the draft, while cool, would be moot as all non-kept players become automatic free agents when the draft starts. Hence, you can't trade for a high profile guy during the draft itself.
- Trades are available prior to the draft, including picks. So, say team A doesn't like any of their centers and wishes to trade for one of team B's. Team A could trade a 2nd round pick for a C (1st round talent) and a 6th from Team B.

Draft pick trades are for that particular round only, the draft order remains the same for all other rounds. Teams with an excess of draft picks will forfeit the last rounds of the draft as their roster will fill up in the earlier rounds.

Using the above example with 10 rounds:
Team A Rounds (after keeper selections): 1-3-4-5-6-6-7-8-9-10
Team B Rounds (after keeper selections): 1-2-2-3-4-5-7-8-9-10

Formerly known as cynical_rock
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Moogs
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2010-08-05, 11:23

Nice. I wasn't sure how the picks part would work / if it was an all-or-nothing thing. So it sounds like, you can trade picks for players... and your draft just ends earlier like you said. We don't have to swap one keeper out for a guy we just traded for, in order to balance a roster prior to the draft, or always swap picks as part of a trade, to keep the number of picks balanced....

Pretty slick that ESPN's system can be set up that way. Everyone feel free to check my Trading Block list and remember it when you get your draft order. It has become expansive an more impressive since it was declared we'd have 12 guys. This is pretty cool; we can now "build through the draft" or build via acquisition in the off-season. Chinney if you want to overcome the dominance of Ely and Jarad, you clearly need to start thinking "transaction".

...into the light of a dark black night.
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Chinney
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2010-08-05, 13:55

I'm going to start paying attention to the hosket again about a week from now. Some trades are definitely a possibility.
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Moogs
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2010-08-09, 21:54

Nice. Hey Ely any word from your potential recruits?
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Moogs
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2010-08-11, 10:34

The message from the ESPN page today:

Quote:
Getting ready for the 2011 Fantasy Hockey season? So are we. And as we perform updates and improvements to make our '11 version the best yet, the game will be unavailable. Check back with us soon, when we debut the 2011 version and your run to fantasy glory starts.


Yer all goin' down.
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curiousuburb
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2010-08-11, 11:14

Bettman first!
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RowdyScot
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2010-08-11, 13:44

I'd say yes, but I'm moving again soonish, and life is going to be crazy for a little while still.
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Elysium
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2010-08-15, 12:00

As for as I know one guy is fully on board (our new token Wings fan).

If we gain back Rotto and him that still leaves us at 11. I'm hesitant about my other recruit still until I get a better long term commitment from him.

As Moogs pointed out the site has been down since Friday, so registration will likely be open next week. I'll get the invites as soon as possible.


As to commish duties I don't mind holding the reigns. Just to let you guys know I've got two major drilling programs that will kickoff September 7 and will likely run until the new year. Now they're local jobs so I'll be home in the evenings, however game management will suffer from 7AM-6PM (maybe sometimes later). I don't anticipate any issues, but if something comes up I can bestow commish powers on a second person to pick up the slack.

Unless I end up getting shot by some dipshit in Camillus, NY (see Wastebed 13 SCA, Camillus, NY).

Formerly known as cynical_rock
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Moogs
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2010-08-15, 15:50

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elysium View Post
As for as I know one guy is fully on board (our new token Wings fan).
You mean Don, or someone else?

Quote:
As to commish duties I don't mind holding the reigns. Just to let you guys know I've got two major drilling programs that will kickoff September 7 and will likely run until the new year. Now they're local jobs so I'll be home in the evenings, however game management will suffer from 7AM-6PM (maybe sometimes later). I don't anticipate any issues, but if something comes up I can bestow commish powers on a second person to pick up the slack.

Unless I end up getting shot by some dipshit in Camillus, NY (see Wastebed 13 SCA, Camillus, NY).

Looked that up for fun... so... you're dredging the lake bed in preparation for drilling... or you're going to be drilling to place some kind of pillars / columns in the lake to support some other structure? Are you oneadem oil workers? Just say not to oil sand.

Ely if you think you'll be too busy for commish duties AND nobody else wants to do it, I can help out. I just feel bad jumping in there when others haven't had a shot at mighty commish powers. Or I don't know... can there be two commishes? You could be commish 1A and let me (commish 1B) know when you can't change a roster or something during the day and I'll try to do make sure that happens, or put trades through (for someone other than me), etc. If bad things happen at my wife's company I may be working two jobs, in which case I can't help but otherwise I can try.

...into the light of a dark black night.
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Elysium
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2010-08-18, 20:39

Well it's been down for a week and they've managed to change the background from blue to red. Way to go ESPN, real efficient.
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Wyatt
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2010-08-19, 05:25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elysium View Post
Well it's been down for a week and they've managed to change the background from blue to red. Way to go ESPN, real efficient.
That's actually worse than Apple taking the store down to update one Mac.
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Moogs
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2010-08-19, 10:24

I saw that too this morning. Probably means we can expect it to go online soon. And that they're anticipating blood in the water... and it's not my blood.

...into the light of a dark black night.
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