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return of the DRAFT in 2005??


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return of the DRAFT in 2005??
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thegelding
feeling my oats
 
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2004-05-29, 16:10

click here and let me know what you think


scary for me as a parent of two kids nearing that age...college not an exception, canada not an option

g

crazy is not a rare human condition

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billybobsky
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2004-05-29, 16:13

i hope i hit 26 before they draft my ass...

given the time these things take, i may be fortunate enough...

never have i wished i was older...
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thegelding
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2004-05-29, 16:17

i wonder if you can take your childs place?? i would be more useful to the military than either of my daughters...sure i'm 42, almost 43, but i'm fit and strong and smart...not that i would want to go, but if i could take the place of my child and have her stay stateside, i would in a heartbeat

anybody know the rules on this?


g

crazy is not a rare human condition

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Wickers
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2004-05-29, 16:18

Wow... that's scary.

Glad I live in Canada.
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billybobsky
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2004-05-29, 16:22

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegelding
i wonder if you can take your childs place?? i would be more useful to the military than either of my daughters...sure i'm 42, almost 43, but i'm fit and strong and smart...not that i would want to go, but if i could take the place of my child and have her stay stateside, i would in a heartbeat

anybody know the rules on this?


g
your daughters are safe... there is no draft for the wimpy females among us... although i think it is a safe bet that your daughters could kick my ass if i happened to pick a fight... i don't really know, but it is a safe bet...
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HOM
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2004-05-29, 16:24

Methinks that the nation is going to see a huge increase of homosexuals if the draft is reinstated.
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Luca
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2004-05-29, 16:31

Perhaps I should move to Canada right now. Or very soon. Looks like you can't go there to avoid the draft if you've already been drafted, but maybe if I move there and am a resident for a year before they even start, I might be safe...

My god I hope it doesn't happen. But I'd do anything other than fight for our country in this godawful "war." No fucking way man. Maybe if it was a situation like WWII, where the fate of the free world depended on the victory of the allied forces... but this is a fucking power grab. Bush and company don't care at all that 800+ Americans have died in Iraq fighting to make the rich richer. I'm sure as hell not going. If I have to go to jail for it, then so be it.

I would rather move to Mexico. My family has already considered moving to either Canada or Mexico a little bit this year, because they think it would be better to live in a simpler country that not everyone in the world hates. My mom is a freelance worker so she can work from just about anywhere, and my dad could probably get a job in Vancouver or Toronto. Also, our house has gained so much value and living is so cheap in Mexico that if we were to move there, they might even be able to go into semi-retirement.

Anyway, it seems like a drastic measure to move out of the country, but we've considered it, and if Bush gets reelected, it might just happen. Plus, I'm 19 now but I'll be 20 in about two months, making me prime drafting age starting this summer and continuing on until I'm 26.

They better not fucking do it.
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thegelding
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2004-05-29, 16:59

Quote:
Originally Posted by billybobsky
your daughters are safe... there is no draft for the wimpy females among us... although i think it is a safe bet that your daughters could kick my ass if i happened to pick a fight... i don't really know, but it is a safe bet...

Congress brought twin bills, S. 89 and HR 163 forward this year, http://www.hslda.org/legislation/na...s89/default.asp entitled the Universal National Service Act of 2003, "to provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons [age 18--26] in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes." These active bills currently sit in the committee on armed services.

g

probably could kick your ass son...they both took self-protection classes...they go right for the eyes and groin...ouch...plus they were both soccer players, so the kicks to the groin will be fast and accurate...and as you lay on the ground, they run around with their shirt pulled over their heads yelling, "GOAL!!!!!!!!!"

crazy is not a rare human condition

everything is food if you chew hard enough
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Paul
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2004-05-29, 17:02

well at least they are going to draft women too (according to the article)

but regardless... this is not something that should be a real possibility after the bullshit that was pulled in Iraq

if Bush wants to go around causing trouble he should not be forcing innocent people to support him...

What is kerry saying about this?

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hyperb0le
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2004-05-29, 17:20

If I remember correctly, these bills were introduced in January 2003. Basically, they aren't getting passed. No one in Congress with any children or grandchildren of draft age would vote for this.

"I understand small business growth. I was one." - George W. Bush
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InactionMan
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2004-05-29, 17:52

Canada welcomes you with open arms!

I knew this would happen sooner or later. America is in too many places to maintain adequate forces in any one place. Just wait, the second Bush wins the election the draft will be in full force. And the War on Terror will open on many more fronts, starting with Syria.

g, why is Canada not an option? Are you afraid of our strong beer?
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billybobsky
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2004-05-29, 18:19

canada ain't an option because of a piece of legislation (or was it just an agreement?) that makes it real easy to force people back across the border...
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thegelding
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2004-05-29, 18:26

Quote:
Originally Posted by InactionMan
g, why is Canada not an option? Are you afraid of our strong beer?
heck, i'm irish and drink guiness...and canada would be great, english speaking (at least half) which is good for me as a slow learner

this was part of the article:

Dodging the draft will be more difficult than those from the Vietnam era.

College and Canada will not be options. In December 2001, Canada and the U.S. signed a "smart border declaration," which could be used to keep would-be draft dodgers in. Signed by Canada's minister of foreign affairs, John Manley, and U.S. Homeland Security director, Tom Ridge, the declaration involves a 30-point plan which implements, among other things, a "pre-clearance agreement" of people entering and departing each country. Reforms aimed at making the draft more equitable along gender and class lines also eliminates higher education as a shelter.


g

crazy is not a rare human condition

everything is food if you chew hard enough
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billybobsky
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2004-05-29, 18:27

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegelding
including women

g

probably could kick your ass son...they both took self-protection classes...they go right for the eyes and groin...ouch...plus they were both soccer players, so the kicks to the groin will be fast and accurate...and as you lay on the ground, they run around with their shirt pulled over their heads yelling, "GOAL!!!!!!!!!"
my bad...

at least I now know that if it comes to a fight between your soccer playing ninjas and myself, all I have to do is figure out a way to get their punk asses hauled off before the registered service board... senators have selectively gotten their sons protected from the board, why can't i get your daughters pulled in front of the board? huh? yeah, that is what I thought... you little pu....... whoa... staaaay away from meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee......
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Defiant
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2004-05-29, 18:28

Come to Switzerland! I'll provide accommodation, food and chocolate. (yes, food and chocolate is something separate )
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billybobsky
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2004-05-29, 18:30

Quote:
Originally Posted by Defiant
Come to Switzerland! I'll provide accommodation, food and chocolate. (yes, food and chocolate is something separate )
no there not.
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Defiant
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2004-05-29, 18:34

Quote:
Originally Posted by billybobsky
no they're not.


Offer still stands for every refugee who wants to flee from the draft.
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InactionMan
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2004-05-29, 18:57

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegelding
heck, i'm irish and drink guiness...and canada would be great, english speaking (at least half) which is good for me as a slow learner

this was part of the article:

Dodging the draft will be more difficult than those from the Vietnam era.

College and Canada will not be options. In December 2001, Canada and the U.S. signed a "smart border declaration," which could be used to keep would-be draft dodgers in. Signed by Canada's minister of foreign affairs, John Manley, and U.S. Homeland Security director, Tom Ridge, the declaration involves a 30-point plan which implements, among other things, a "pre-clearance agreement" of people entering and departing each country. Reforms aimed at making the draft more equitable along gender and class lines also eliminates higher education as a shelter.


g
There are currently two US soldiers seeking asylum in Canada. One of them, Pfc. Jeremy Hinzman, has his refugee hearing starting soon. The article states that the US Army could request that he be sent back and the could arrest him, but they won't actively pursue him. So, maybe Canada is about to do a flip-flop for conscientious objectors.

Article= http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/...BNStory/Front/
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thegelding
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2004-05-29, 19:03

cool, i should start practicing my canadian


aboot, hoser, eh, hoser, aboot

ok, got it down


g
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curiousuburb
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2004-05-29, 19:36

the irony gods might draft the Bush twin daughters into W's war.
might be poetic.
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hyperb0le
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2004-05-29, 22:50

Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousuburb
the irony gods might draft the Bush twin daughters into W's war.
might be poetic.
Oh, don't worry, I'm sure their names will be mysteriously absent from the possible draftee database (whatever they call that thing)
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Quagmire
meh
 
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2004-05-29, 22:55

Here are two possibilities,

1. Bush wins and the draft would be brought back.

2. Kerry wins, he pulls out of Iraq and the draft would most likely will not be brought back(unless we need soldiers in Afganistan)

giggity
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hyperb0le
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2004-05-29, 23:04

Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertaker
Here are two possibilities,

1. Bush wins and the draft would be brought back.

2. Kerry wins, he pulls out of Iraq and the draft would most likely will not be brought back(unless we need soldiers in Afganistan)
First, it's Congress's decision, not Bush's. Secondly, I'm not so sure Kerry would pull out of Iraq. I think it would be more detrimental to pull out than to stay there. If we pull out now, the world will think "If we piss them off enough, they'll go home." If that happens, we will lose any chance of finding OBL. Right now, the biggest reason countries are letting us in to search is that they are scared of us. If we lose their respect, we lose all influence in the middle east. That being said, we need to get out of there eventually, but we need to ease out. A sudden pull-out would be a terrible thing for the US.

That said, neither of the candidates are fit to run the country. But that's for a different thread.

"I understand small business growth. I was one." - George W. Bush
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Windswept
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2004-05-30, 15:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca
I would rather move to Mexico. My family has already considered moving to either Canada or Mexico a little bit this year, because they think it would be better to live in a simpler country that not everyone in the world hates. My mom is a freelance worker so she can work from just about anywhere, and my dad could probably get a job in Vancouver or Toronto. Also, our house has gained so much value and living is so cheap in Mexico that if we were to move there, they might even be able to go into semi-retirement.
Canada is a wonderful place. I love Vancouver and Victoria - British Columbia in general. But you really need to check on the draft thing wrt Canada. I doubt if it would matter if you lived there for a year or two. You'd still be prime material.

Wrt Mexico. My impression is that Mexico is not a very safe place. It is rife with kidnappings for ransom. Get in a cab, and you take a chance of being abducted - from what I've been reading in Newsweek over the last three years. In many cases, according to Newsweek articles, off-duty police officers and federales (federal police) were the ones doing the kidnappings!!! The Mexicans who have been kidnapped don't bother to report the crime, since if the police are involved, what's the point? So they handle the ransom themselves.

A few years ago I read that of the seven Mexican national banks, four were involved in money laundering for drug cartels.

Anyway, if I were your parents, I'd check out Costa Rica instead. I've been reading up on Costa Rica for a few years. Apparently they have a national literacy rate of 95% - which is probably *lots* better than that in the US. Their economy is quite stable. I'm not sure if the country is a transhipment point for drugs, but I don't think it is. I plan to go down there and check it out sometime in the next six or seven months. It would be great for me, because I already speak Spanish. (I lived in Mexico as a kid in 3rd-6th grades.)

I'd like to go down to CR and write books - sit on the porch (of a cottage overlooking the sea) with my sweet little 12" PB, listen to the gulls and the surf, feel the ocean breeze across my face.....and be able to afford to have someone *else* clean the cottage and wash the dishes. heh.

Luca, when I lived in Mexico as a kid, we had both a live-in cook and a chambermaid. A daily gardener and an ironing lady on Wednesdays. My mom spent all her time at the country club during the day, playing golf and bridge. My dad had a company plane that he flew up to his job site in the mountains. Living in an ex-pat community is quite exotic, really. My mom's good friend was a European countess! Once one has a taste of that kind of life, it inspires a lifetime's nostalgia. But when we were there, drugs weren't a problem; and that makes all the difference in the world!!!

Maybe there's an English-language newspaper in Guadalajara that would give some perspective on all this. Lots of retired Americans living there, I think. Maybe that paper has an online edition. If not, there must be an English online version of one of the big Mexico City newspapers. It would be worth it to check.

Carol
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Paul
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2004-05-30, 19:06

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol
I'd like to go down to CR and write books - sit on the porch (of a cottage overlooking the sea) with my sweet little 12" PB, listen to the gulls and the surf, feel the ocean breeze across my face.....
Looking into costa rica? soulcrusher is from around those parts...
I hear it is beautiful, but try not to let the PowerBook suffer the same fate as your cameras.

just a heads-up...

-Paul

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Moogs
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2004-06-02, 20:23

You know, being well over 26 I'm not on the hit list... but if I were... there's no fucking way I would go fight Bush's war. And neither will my nephews I hope. A true world conflict (someone mentioned WWII) where there was a genuine and urgent need for all free societies to rally against a common enemy, yes, I'd go without hestitation. I would feel compelled to do my part. But for this... abomination... no way.

It is just disgusting that the adminsitration is trying to institute a draft in order to bail out their short-sighted, politiical war in Iraq.

When are these a-holes ever going to recognize the wisdom of admitting they have made mistakes? All good leaders own up to their mistakes, yet these bastards continually play things up like they can do no wrong (except ole Rummy of course, who now has no choice but to admit it).

...into the light of a dark black night.
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Wrao
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2004-06-02, 21:36

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moogs
You know, being well over 26 I'm not on the hit list... but if I were... there's no fucking way I would go fight Bush's war. And neither will my nephews I hope. A true world conflict (someone mentioned WWII) where there was a genuine and urgent need for all free societies to rally against a common enemy, yes, I'd go without hestitation. I would feel compelled to do my part. But for this... abomination... no way.

My sentiments exactly, except I'm 18*




*turn 19 in 2 weeks
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thuh Freak
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2004-06-02, 22:36

i'm kind of conflicted. b/c, on the one hand, i think it'd be pretty cool to be in the army, and go through all that. but i don't like this man's war. i don't think the fear has hit me. i'm within the age limits. governmentless iraq doesn't ahve anti-drug laws right? :smokey: otherwise, it might be tough out there.

one thing that would be really cool is if the army paid for college. i could live on easy street after that. hmmm, does the army paying for college deal work retroactively? like, i've gone through a bunch of semesters and paid who knows how much money; would the gi bill cover that? anybody know? ..bueler?
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DMBand0026
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2004-06-02, 22:42

I'm at the ripe ol' age of 18, perfect draft age. So if the draft is instated, I would probably go, and would be dang proud to. I toyed with going in to the military after HS even though I had good grades in school and college was an option for me. I did end up going to college and am about to finish my first year. I'm well on my way now to becoming a full time fire fighter and paramedic.

Like I said, I would be proud to go and fight for my country. Even if it means a little interruption in my life, or possible death...I really don't fear death, but that's another story for another time. PM me if you're interested

Come waste your time with me
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Moogs
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2004-06-02, 23:13

Except that the truth is, you'd be fighting less for the well-being of your country and more for the whims of a man named Bush. It's not wise to be proud to fight for the sake of fighting... I actually tried to join the Air Force myself some years ago (medical DQ), so service to one's country is something I have real respect for.

But I have absolutely no respect for Bush, Chenney and what they've done in the name of "freedom". Misusing our military for political purposes is one of the most unforgiveable things I can think of, because it's a mistake that costs people their lives... not just their careers or their reputation (as with most politics).

You don't spill blood to win popularity and elections (which is the stereotypical hawk mentality of "put on a bold front and people will vote for you later")... only here it's started to backfire in a rather ugly way.

Bush is a slyme-bag for sending our men and women over there with no plan for winning the war and no real urgent need to start it in the first place. Maybe if he'd actually had the balls to serve in Viet Nam rather than his Texas Elite air guard unit, he'd have given more thought to the whole matter before he started it.

...into the light of a dark black night.
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