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Is Logic competition for DP or PT?


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Is Logic competition for DP or PT?
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noleli2
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2004-07-09, 07:04

I can't tell if Apple's Logic is going up against Digital Performer or Pro Tools. While all three programs are sequencers and editors, DP is mainly a sequencer and PT is mainly an editor. So what is Logic?
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Moogs
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2004-07-09, 09:21

I'm not a huge audio buff, but I know something about it. Logic is a direct competitor to Digital Performer. Pro Tools is more of a hardware-based platform as I understand it, and often costs tens of thousands of dollars to set one up. From a production standpoint I think Logic is design to afford you the opportunity to *forgo* things like Pro Tools, but in a literal sense it is not a competing product because it's a software-based platform.

In general, Logic, DP, and Cubase (which I am not sure if it's offered for Mac) are the main competitors in the DAW (digital audio workstation) market. These the Photoshop of audio editors, if you want to look at it that way. They have a wide variety of features, filters and effects; they can do just about anything to an existing audio waveform that you could possibly require.

Reason, Live and Storm are digital "racks" of synthesizers, drum machines, loop sequencers and the like; they are replicas of hardware-based systems that allow you to actually create the sounds / music from scratch with nothing but the software and a midi keyboard. GarageBand is also in this category, though it is more heavily based on pre-made loops than the other three, and has not nearly as many input and output features.

Hope that helps some.

PS - Logic Pro 7 is likely to be released sometime later this year, so don't buy the current version unless you really need it. Supposedly Apple has taken EMagic's product and put a "Final Cut Pro" face on it, which would be a big improvement if it turns out to be true. The one thing that has never impressed me about Logic is its interface. Very quirky / convoluted.

...into the light of a dark black night.

Last edited by Moogs : 2004-07-09 at 09:34.
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hmurchison
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2004-07-09, 12:35

Best way I can describe is talking about each products lineage.

Pro Tools started out as Sound Tools a long time ago. Its basis and forte is audio editing with midi bolted on in latter years.

Logic and Digital Performer both started as excellent midi sequencers that had audio capture and editing functions bolted on later.

Right now Pro Tools is the Gold Standard for audio editing. Engineers love it's interface. DP and Logic aren't far behind but it's obvious they need work here. Apple is rumored to have been working on a new 64bit DAW app that competes with PT but I can't find anything substantial. They rumors state Apple has been working on it before the Emagic purchase. When Tiger 10.4 was announced to have 64 bit processes I instantly thought of this app because had Tiger stayed 32 bit then that rumor would have been debunked.

Could Apple be working on a high end DAW? It's likely they might. Final Cut Pro is great for creating low cost editing stations but what about audio in Post Production? Apple needs an app with better audio editing functions than we currently have in Logic. I could see Apple creating two apps and then eventually converging them over the course of their simultaneous development.

A new DAW from Apple would need to support 64 tracks or move easy. It would need to have OMF import/export, DTS and AC3 encoding and support for easy surround mixing. And a wonderful UI for working with these technologies. As Moogs said...Logic is a beast of an app technically but it's power is obsfucated by a very confusing UI.
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tufter
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2004-07-09, 14:53

they are all competing against each other..... they've all pretty much borrowed everyone else's features and given them different names....but the way you get at those features is different for each one...and that's where YOUR preference should lie.....
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NosferaDrew
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2004-07-09, 22:46

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
Pro Tools started out as Sound Tools a long time ago. Its basis and forte is audio editing with midi bolted on in latter years.
Don't forget that Pro Tools is also a very powerful and flexible Mixer too.

I've used it for more than ten years and Logic has got a very long way to go to compete with Pro Tools, but competition is good for everyone.
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hmurchison
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2004-07-10, 00:55

Quote:
Originally Posted by NosferaDrew
Don't forget that Pro Tools is also a very powerful and flexible Mixer too.

I've used it for more than ten years and Logic has got a very long way to go to compete with Pro Tools, but competition is good for everyone.


Yes you're very right. Hell Charles Dye edits and mixes all within Pro Tools. That's a testament to the audio prowess of the app. I honestly don't think Logic can compete and that's why rumors of an Apple DAW
arose 7 months ago and made a lot of sense. Hell it still makes sense to have a seperate apple more in tune with what Audio Engineers need. Logic= CubaseSX but where's ???= Nuendo?
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Moogs
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2004-07-10, 10:10

So you're thinking Apple may introduce another Shake-like app, in terms of its market positioning and cost? I.E. thousands of dollars per copy?
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hmurchison
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2004-07-10, 11:46

Yeah I do. I can see Apple coming out with an app at the $1500-2000 dollar range. It would support much better multitrack audio editing and mixing. Surround Sound would be well supported with built in encoders for DTS and AC3(hence the high cost of the app because of license fees). It would be great if the apps directly supported DVD-Audio so you could burn 5.1 24bit/96k files directly to the Superdrive.

Rumors also have it that some sort of hardware interface was supposed to be available as well from Apoggee Digital. Interesting commonality is both Apple and Apoggee are mLAN licensees and with Panther's last update, Apple integrated mLAN right into Core Audio's drivers. This could lead to a relatively small device that allows for AD/DA, mixing and surround sound control(joystick) all linked by FW and running mLAN. Leave out mic pres and let people add in their own and you could have this device for less than $1000 possibly. The device could also support mixing in Final Cut pro as well to increase the potential market.

I don't think the goal for Apple is to compete with PT on the high end but craft a niche for the low to midrange just as they've done with Final Cut Pro. We forget that with Shake Apple also got Tremor the Real Time big brother to Shake and decided not further the project because Apple just doesn't seem to want to compete with companies that sell 50k systems and above(ala high end Avid and Discreet Inferno). So I can see Apple content to keep capable systems below $10-15k but keep as much power as possible. Sounds like a decent strategy to me.
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