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Please help me make what is turning into a very hard decision for me..


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Please help me make what is turning into a very hard decision for me..
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scratt
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2006-12-18, 08:44

Hi guys / gals,

Can you help me out, please...

Ok. Long story short..

I went to Tesco today planning to buy a Samsung 32inch 720p TV.

When in the store the salesman (a really nice guy) pointed out another Samsung Plasma that was the same price and suggested that.
I asked for manuals and specs so I could check the resolution, even though he assured me that it was 720p.
After some hunting we could not find any specs, but I did find a page quoting some stuff about 720p and a resolution which conformed to 720p. i.e. Over 720 vertical and some 1300 and something horizontal.

So we bought the 42".

When I got home I did a quick check on the intarweb and had some problems finding it's spec. (These are made in Thailand so have specific Thailand codes which don't corespond to European or American specs - so they are hard to check out online).

Anyway I came to the conclusion that it was actually HDMI ready and scaling to get 720p and 1080i.

So we loaded the huge thing back on my truck and took it back to Tesco,

We went through it all again and the guy did a very good job of convincing me again that it was in fact 720p. They had paperwork to back it up.

So we came home and set it up. It is georgeous!

Anyway, after some more relaxed digging online I am now 99.999999% certain, no I am positive, that this is actually a WVGA Plasma screen with some nifty hardware scaling.. Not 720p at all.. But 848 x 480 something!!!! Like a normal tv!!

It's not a problem as Tesco have a 7 day returns policy for refund or exchange, no questions asked..

My problem is..

This 42" looks and feels fab in our house, and I am already thinking that the 32" is going to look small if we pick it up tomorrow...

At least I got a free trial.....

But I am really torn with just saying what the heck to this HD shit and keeping this beautiful big screen..
The only thing I am likely to see in 720p here is from my PS3.. and the odd BluRay I buy....

So what to do.. Keep the 42" and forget the HD revolution, or go for the 32" machine, which is identical in every way, PIP and surround sound and sexy and millions of connections and black and everything... Half the resolution again, but not a big and sexy......

Oh boy am I confused.. It would be so easy to leave this tv here and just forget HD......

HELP!!!!! PLEASE!! What would you do?

'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
Extreme Sports Cafe | ESC's blog | scratt's blog | @thescratt
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MCQ
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2006-12-18, 08:56

Does it match up with any of the ones on this page?
http://www.samsung.com/th/products/t...matv/index.asp

3 of them are 1024x768, the other 2 are 854x480.

If you're happy with the TV and aren't worried with 720p, then I'd say keep it.
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scratt
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2006-12-18, 09:01

It's not listed at all.. Go figure!! (But thanks for the link )

It has the main code of an 854x480 model, but a suffix of TEX.
The European ones have a suffix with an E, so I am guessing the T is for Thailand, and the rest is something else..

The X makes me suspicious that it may be an 'Extended' or 'Special' version.
I can call Samsung tomorrow as they have an office here at the factory.

My problem with 720p is that there will be no broadcast content here for some time.. At least a year or two, and we are only going to use it for the odd very rare movie, and the PS3....

I understand the differences, but am not sure if in day to day use I am really going to notice, or care...

But I feel a bit stupid getting a new tv and totally ignoring even the lowest of the HD specs!!!

'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
Extreme Sports Cafe | ESC's blog | scratt's blog | @thescratt
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Ryan
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2006-12-18, 09:17

If you're happy with the picture quality, keep it. If you feel ripped off, return it and get a set that is HD. Personally, I'd keep it if I was happy.
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scratt
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2006-12-18, 09:30

I certainly don't feel ripped off. There is no quibble with any exchange, and I believe the guy genuinely believes his info.. We shop there every week and the staff gaves us 1/4 of the price of the tv (whichever we chose) back as in store gift vouchers as a Christmas deal...

Whichever way you look at the tvs are all the same price, and about 1/3 lower than the European price.

Either way I will get what I want as far as the store is concerned..
The problem is me!!! And my indecision.
I am sitting here basking in 42"s of pulsing colour, and trying to imagine if 720p on a 32" screen will be quite as good when I am playing racing games, and watching the odd really special movie....

'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
Extreme Sports Cafe | ESC's blog | scratt's blog | @thescratt
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scratt
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2006-12-18, 09:34

Quote:
Plasma TV resolutions in detail
This is the number of pixels available on the plasma tv screen. The higher the plasma screen resolution the greater the definition and sharpness of the plasma TV image when projecting from a computer or DVD. This is more important with larger plasma tv screens where the pixel size is more noticeable, where PC output can look pixellated but DVD or video images look flawless as they are 'fastmoving'.

Plasma TV resolutions vary from 800 x 600 to 1280+. For TV use and DVD use, 800x600 is adequate, 1024 resolution ideal. For other plasma screen applications such as PC presentations, a higher plasma screen resolution 1024+ is essential.


Plasma TV has twice the resolution of a normal TV
Plasma TV typically are 1024 x 768 upwards which is almost twice the resolution of a 640x480 TV. That means ultra-sharpness when playing computer games or watching high-quality DVD video on your Plasma TV. With the new Plasma-compatible HDTV and new DVD 'blue-laser' formats which give higher resolution images, your Plasma TV will be ready to accept these new high-resolution formats in the best possible quality.

The Plasma TV high resolution is also very popular with those wish to view JPG pictures on their plasma TV, giving a resolution comparable to a PC computer.


The difference in watching TV / DVD on a higher resolution Plasma TV
The big question is how does a 800x600 42" plasma TV perform up against a 1024x768 42" plasma TV? On DVD and TV the difference between the plasma displays was negligible at 4ft and non-existent at 6ft - there is no difference to the naked eye between the plasma TVs in terms of sharpness.

As we move up in plasma TV size, the pixellation is more noticeable and we preferred a 1024x768 resolution plasma TV at 50" in terms of picture quality. The 800x600 50" Plasma TV was not quite as sharp as the 1024 and was noticeable.

Summary of Plasma TV resolution
- resolution is critical to PC applications and larger screens 50+ inch plasma TV screens primarily
- watching TV and video on 42" and below plasma TV screens, the difference is minor between higher/lower resolutions screens
This has got me even more confused!
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curiousuburb
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2006-12-18, 10:03

Quote:
Originally Posted by scratt View Post
My problem with 720p is that there will be no broadcast content here for some time.. At least a year or two, and we are only going to use it for the odd very rare movie, and the PS3....

I understand the differences, but am not sure if in day to day use I am really going to notice, or care...

But I feel a bit stupid getting a new tv and totally ignoring even the lowest of the HD specs!!!
Are you planning to replace it within 2 to 3 years (by which point much more content will presumably be available at 720p or better)?

Does it mainly depend on how far you're sitting from it? If you can't spot a difference, judge by apparent size at viewing distance...

Ideally, get both sets up side by side with 720p content and plain sd and measure in context... then return the one you don't want.

Future proofing is good, but you'll be watching it, so your eyes may rule your brain.

All those who believe in telekinesis, raise my hand.
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Ryan
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2006-12-18, 10:27

I think below 50", HD doesn't make enough of a difference to worry about. At these sizes, panel quality is *much* more important than resolution. Basically, the summary at the bottom of your quote is correct. At any size below 50", resolution isn't very important.

If the picture quality is good, keep it.
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scratt
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2006-12-18, 10:29

Thanks for some illuminating questions..

Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousuburb View Post
Are you planning to replace it within 2 to 3 years (by which point much more content will presumably be available at 720p or better)?
Almost definitely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousuburb View Post
Does it mainly depend on how far you're sitting from it? If you can't spot a difference, judge by apparent size at viewing distance...
Working on that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousuburb View Post
Ideally, get both sets up side by side with 720p content and plain sd and measure in context... then return the one you don't want.
Did in the store.. They all had Ice Age running on them. They all looked great.
The 42" was one shelf higher up, and the 32"s right in front of us.
Glancing at them (I can't say I actually stuck my nose on the screen) they all looked the same.
But the 42" is 854x500 vs 32" @ 1300x720!

Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousuburb View Post
Future proofing is good, but you'll be watching it, so your eyes may rule your brain.
RIght now I am torn between wanting to have 720p and 1300 x 720 output in racing games on our consoles...

.. and the luxury of a screen that dominates the room, and really immerses you..

'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
Extreme Sports Cafe | ESC's blog | scratt's blog | @thescratt
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scratt
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2006-12-18, 11:00

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
I think below 50", HD doesn't make enough of a difference to worry about. At these sizes, panel quality is *much* more important than resolution. Basically, the summary at the bottom of your quote is correct. At any size below 50", resolution isn't very important.

If the picture quality is good, keep it.
You know I would if it was closer to 800 x 800, rather than 500 on the vertical... I would be a lot more confident about keeping it.

The picture is nice.

I do see that the real use difference between resolutions is marginal. And I am even getting on to thinking that even when playing on a next gen console that (actually in play) you won't really notice the difference! Heck I think a lot of the current PS2 games on a 480p tv look great!!! I have always said that when playing games we are more tuned into movement than picture quality. That's just the way human vision is wired.

Plasma is very nice in terms of the colour, and the blackness of the black too, when compared to the LCD panels..

Gonna try it with the lights off in a bit and see what a horror movie is like!!

'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
Extreme Sports Cafe | ESC's blog | scratt's blog | @thescratt
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scratt
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2006-12-18, 12:35

Just tried out Swordfish on DVD...

I have to say that if a PS3 or a 360 can chuck out any images even close to that then I will be happy..

With the lights off the size and brightness of the screen is awesomely overpowering!!

Thanks for peoples input..

I have done some rough 'scratt' maths and worked out that you lose about 25% screen real estate going from 42 to 32 inches, and that is about the same as the resolution difference between the two models.. In human terms (unless you are nose to the screen) I think you'll see the same image on each...

Apart from reading text I think that the advantage of 25% more screen, over 30% more graphic detail kind of cancels each other out in a counter-intuitive sort of way.. (No logic there - Yes I am aware that the bigger screen has lower resolution and the size compounds that - but it makes sense to my value system).

Gonna sleep on it... But I am really thinking that for the pleasure that movies will give on this, coupled with the fact that 90% of the time it's showing cruddy satellite tv, that the wow of spotting a few extra pixels in a game is not really worth it...

'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
Extreme Sports Cafe | ESC's blog | scratt's blog | @thescratt
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bassplayinMacFiend
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2006-12-18, 14:49

Of course the DVD will look good, the DVD's resolution matches the plasma display's resolution. Start running some real HD signals through the displays and then compare the results. If you have to, bring your PS3 into the store so you can see what you're missing. To your eyes you may not be missing anything but the only way to find out for sure is to run a true 720p signal through both sets and see which one looks better.
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scratt
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2006-12-18, 15:46

I hear you. And I am sure 720p on a 720p display looks awesome..

I am just not convinced that from my sofa I am going to benefit that much more from it than I am from a honking big screen!

But I will be trying the test you suggest..

'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
Extreme Sports Cafe | ESC's blog | scratt's blog | @thescratt
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gsxrboy
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2006-12-18, 17:49

Viewing distance for a 42" HD set is 2.1 metres, for a 50" it is 2.7 metres. If you have a 42" any further than the max distance your eyes cannot resolve the resolution difference between a HD (unfortunately a very loosely used term*) of say 1024x768 and a SD 850x480ish set.

To my thinking HD only starts at 1366x768, which is plasmas 50" and above currently, and some of the new gen LCD's of 32" and above.
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joveblue
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2006-12-18, 19:50

Keep the big one
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scratt
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2006-12-18, 21:46

Thanks everyone..

gsxrboy.. Out of interest do you have a source for the figures you quote?
I have read similar things elsewhere but not with those specific figures. But I had pretty much come to that conclusion with my experiments last night.. Up close I can see the lack of resolution on the screen, but on our sofa about 3 meters away it looks awesome!

I also can't see spinning flashing movie special effects making me almost fall of the sofa in the same way on a 32" screen!

It's interesting that in the poll the majority seem to want to change the screen, but most people that have posted have offered help in making a decision, or have said keep it...

I think we will keep it.. For the next 12 months at least we will have no real day to day use for HD, and the bigger screen makes movies awesome, which is what we use the tv for 90% of the time...

By the end of 2007 I expect HD tvs will be so much cheaper that we could always upgrade then and stick this beast in the den....

For now I can't wait until Christmas day and a mammoth movie, and Wii session on the big screen!

Thanks again everyone...

EDIT - How Ironic... I rushed out to get an HD tv, and picked up a PS3 for just that reason, and now we've thrown the whole HD thing out the window for at least a year, and I am more excited about SD DVD movies and a Nintendo gamecube! If many more people do that what are the hardware manufacturers going to do!!?!?

'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
Extreme Sports Cafe | ESC's blog | scratt's blog | @thescratt
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Eugene
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2006-12-18, 21:53

Yep...

If it looks good to you, keep it. Resolution is just a tiny aspect of picture quality.
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World Leader Pretend
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2006-12-18, 22:37

I would keep the plasma. If you can get ahold of a nice calibration disk and some time, you can get it looking spectacular and no one will notice that it isn't HD. Again as someone said earlier, HD doesn't make a huge difference vs WVGA at less than 50".

Calibrate it, and (as I love to recommend) save up some money for a sweet sound system (I would suggest the SVS 5.1 setup if you don't have anything, and at-least an SVS sub if you have speakers). Grab a budget receiver and hook it all up; it will make a much bigger difference than getting a smaller HD TV.
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bassplayinMacFiend
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2006-12-19, 13:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by scratt View Post
Thanks everyone..

gsxrboy.. Out of interest do you have a source for the figures you quote?
I have read similar things elsewhere but not with those specific figures. But I had pretty much come to that conclusion with my experiments last night.. Up close I can see the lack of resolution on the screen, but on our sofa about 3 meters away it looks awesome!
I'm not gsxrboy, but here are some links for determining optimal viewing distance and angle:

http://www.tvtechnology.com/features...features.shtml
http://www.cnet.com/4520-7874_1-6307361-1.html
http://www.myhometheater.homestead.c...l#anchor_13194
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scratt
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2006-12-19, 21:17

Thanks.
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scratt
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2006-12-20, 13:19

I just came accross this article where some 360 guys ran the same copy of Halo2 on an Xbox and then an Xbox 360, both only at 480p and not using a component cable on the 360...

Quote:
In order to do that, we turned off Xbox 360 high definition features by going to the Display setting in the Xbox 360 system blade. We even went a step further by taking out the component video cable and replaced it with the S-Video AV cable.

This way, we’d have both consoles, the Xbox and the Xbox 360, running Xbox games at the same resolution and with the same S-video video connection.
You’d think, like we did at first, that there shouldn’t be any difference and this test might be a waste. Well, here comes the surprise.
Article and pictures here...
http://features.teamxbox.com/xbox/13...360-Halo-2/p1/

'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
Extreme Sports Cafe | ESC's blog | scratt's blog | @thescratt
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