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Homepod: Great audio, crap delivery!


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Homepod: Great audio, crap delivery!
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kscherer
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2018-01-29, 17:44

Just thought I would set this out there for anyone looking at Homepod.

This is not a review of the device. Rather, a complaint for the audio it can play, and why it could have a negative impact on sales.

Homepd requires some form of Apple music subscription/purchase. It will only play audio files that are A) iTunes purchases; B) iTunes Match (annual subscription); or C) Apple Music (monthly subscription). In other words, you have to be paying Apple for your music, or Homepod does not work.

The word is still out as far as Airplay-ing an iTunes library, but the understanding I have been able to glean is that it requires the above. If anyone has anything else to add/correct, be my guest. However, if I can't play my ripped collection, then I can neither buy one nor recommend to my customers that they buy one.

If this turns out to be true, then Apple has made a very bad [software] engineering decision, IMO.

Since November 2016, I have tried to live my life without politics or football, and it has been the most peaceful time of my life.
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chucker
 
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2018-01-29, 20:09

You can AirPlay anything. Pirated songs, Spotify, fart sound effects.

What you can’t do is ask Siri on HomePod to play those. You have to have a sending device.
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Dr. Bobsky
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Join Date: Feb 2015
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2018-01-30, 13:00

Who is this Siri you speak of?
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kscherer
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2018-01-30, 13:00

Is this proven yet, or just a guess based on what Airplay does? I'm asking because I don't know, and I can't find anything definitive . So far, everything I have read says the thing will only support iTunes-purchased content.

Apple says an "Apple Music subscription is required for full music functionality" (which probably means Siri search requests), but that is all they have to say about supported sources beyond Airplay 2.

Edit: Never mind. I found this article from Serenity Caldwell that confirms a regular iTunes Library will work.

Phew!

Since November 2016, I have tried to live my life without politics or football, and it has been the most peaceful time of my life.

Last edited by kscherer : 2018-01-30 at 13:26.
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Yontsey
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2018-01-30, 20:39

Honestly, I think this will be another flop. I would be interested but this is old technology and I have invested in Sonos, who has done it better, years ago.

Die young and save yourself....
@yontsey
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Brave Ulysses
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Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2018-01-30, 22:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yontsey View Post
Honestly, I think this will be another flop. I would be interested but this is old technology and I have invested in Sonos, who has done it better, years ago.
This is a typically weird Apple product that pops up every now and then but I actually thought that practice had died with Steve. I WANT Apple to release products like this. I want them to release many products like this. But right now everything Apple releases needs to be the next great thing and this definitely isn’t. The weird thing in this particular case is it seems Apple accepts that but they aren’t really sure they are ready to admit that.

This is by all accounts thus far an excellent speaker for music. By the standards set by other excellent speakers this may be a great competitor deal with better features than other excellent speakers. What it is not is an excellent Alexa or google home competitor or an excellent Siri assistant.

In reality, the best Alexa and google home competitor is Apple Watch.
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kscherer
Ain't got none
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2018-02-12, 16:32

Well, we finally got them in stock and have one set up. Here are some quick notes:

- The setup is a breeze. Like Airpods and Beats Wireless, it is ridiculously simple. Hold your iThing within 2 inches and a message pops up to pair.

- HomePod does, in fact, support all that Airplay has to offer.

- I have read some reviews that Siri does not work with an Airplay music library. Have not yet tried it on a Mac, but Siri works just fine with my iPhone's music library.

- Even with the speaker at 100%, you don't have to raise your voice to talk to Siri. Just speak normally. The only time I needed to raise my voice was if I was standing across the room and the listening mics could not hear me due to distance.

- Siri is not "all that" on Homepod. However, if you are looking for music, Siri is quite clever. It will give you the weather, stocks, etc., but don't expect answers to complex questions. Just say "Hey, Siri, play me some AC/DC" and she plays Ackee Dackee from some dude I've never heard of before. That aside, Siri was able to source whatever I had on my phone with almost no trouble.

- Volume control, playback controls, etc., are very easy to access/use in a normal voice and from a reasonable distance.

- Our sales floor is 3000+ square feet and, at 100% volume, the HomePod is strong enough to fill the entire space with sound.

- The crazy thing sounds incredible.

- My only real grumble (so far) is the need to tie the thing to an Apple ID. While this may not seem like a big deal, it is rather annoying if you don't want it to be anymore. To get our demo unit working, we needed to tie it to my phone, since our demo-units have Apple's kiosk demo software on them and none of them could be bothered to talk to the HomePod. At the end of the day I deleted the device from my phone, but it remained attached to my Apple ID. Without a device to talk to, the fool thing kept calling my Apple ID and I kept getting pinged that a device was trying to get into my account. This, even after I logged into iCloud and removed the HomePod from my device list.

Overall, the HomePod is an exceptional little speaker. It is small, looks nice, is easy to set up, easy to use, and it sounds better than any sound system we have ever had in the store. For $349, it is a bargain. However, if you want your speaker to be able to order Cheerios or search for the latest fad in boobs, AirPod is not your thing. It is a very good speaker with good voice controls, basic information requests, single-user workflow queries, and that's it. It is not trying to be anything else, although I suspect Apple will issue numerous software updates as new features come available. Significantly better than the old Hi-Fi for the same money, and many reviewers say it is as good as or better than $1000 systems.

If you want a very good speaker for your music library, HomePod is a very good speaker.

Since November 2016, I have tried to live my life without politics or football, and it has been the most peaceful time of my life.
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Brave Ulysses
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Join Date: Dec 2005
 
2018-02-14, 17:53

Re: Apple ID requirement


Interesting that you mention that as it seems to be an issue that has apple’s own demo models in their retail stores very hamstrung. I went to try it out and they have iPad set up next to the HomePod, presumably to use to play music but the iPad repeatedly requested a password for a Apple ID account and was unusable.

I’m shocked at how poor of a demo setup Apple has in their retail stores. The rooms are typically too big and boomy and loud so you definitely do not appreciate the sound. There were no instructions on how to use or interact with the HomePod. The iPad adjacent to it had pricing info on the HomePod but didn’t work with the HomePod and despite the store being crowded not a single other customer besides myself showed interest in the HomePod. I was there for probably 20 minutes and not once did an Apple employee approach me or ask if I had questions.

And hey Siri did not work well at all with all of the store noise. I suspect Apple is doing some complex noise cancellation on the music it plays to hear hey Siri but it doesn’t seem as effective with a lot of external ambient noise not produced by the HomePod.
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Matsu
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2018-02-15, 10:09

I'm right in the middle of a major re-modelling, floors, walls, layout, so I've been looking at all the various smart systems out there before we close it all up - HVAC, audio, lighting, security, etc... I'll probably drop some precautionary speaker wire into the two future home theatre locations, but I wonder if, as devices like homepod improve, it's really worth it to go through the trouble of hard-wiring anything?

Seems like it would be perfect for bedrooms, study/den, and kitchen, rather than a more complex system from multiple components.

.........................................
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kscherer
Ain't got none
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2018-02-15, 14:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Ulysses View Post
Re: Apple ID requirement


Interesting that you mention that as it seems to be an issue that has apple’s own demo models in their retail stores very hamstrung. I went to try it out and they have iPad set up next to the HomePod, presumably to use to play music but the iPad repeatedly requested a password for a Apple ID account and was unusable.

I’m shocked at how poor of a demo setup Apple has in their retail stores. The rooms are typically too big and boomy and loud so you definitely do not appreciate the sound. There were no instructions on how to use or interact with the HomePod. The iPad adjacent to it had pricing info on the HomePod but didn’t work with the HomePod and despite the store being crowded not a single other customer besides myself showed interest in the HomePod. I was there for probably 20 minutes and not once did an Apple employee approach me or ask if I had questions.

And hey Siri did not work well at all with all of the store noise. I suspect Apple is doing some complex noise cancellation on the music it plays to hear hey Siri but it doesn’t seem as effective with a lot of external ambient noise not produced by the HomePod.
Yeah, it took us quite a while to figure out how to demo the fool thing. Apple has this Kiosk software installed on all demos that makes the demo units much more consistent and hassle-free. We love it. Unfortunately, it does not work with the HomePod. My guess as to why your demo was poor has to do with that Kiosk software on the iPad. And, yes, lots of background noise seems to give Siri a headache. It works very well when the room is reasonably quiet. That being said, I think it will struggle a bit if you have a party going on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
I'm right in the middle of a major re-modelling, floors, walls, layout, so I've been looking at all the various smart systems out there before we close it all up - HVAC, audio, lighting, security, etc... I'll probably drop some precautionary speaker wire into the two future home theatre locations, but I wonder if, as devices like homepod improve, it's really worth it to go through the trouble of hard-wiring anything?

Seems like it would be perfect for bedrooms, study/den, and kitchen, rather than a more complex system from multiple components.
Put lots of Ethernet in your walls. Think of all the locations you might want a thing, and drop in a line. The wire and boxes are dirt cheap, and makes no sense not to have it done while you have the walls open.

As far as surround sound is concerned, I have added it to the last two homes I have remodeled (I do all the work myself) and have put in surround in both places. So far, I have not used it in either place. We are now in the process of a third remodel, and two things are certain: 1) Ethernet goes wherever I think I might add a computer/printer/Apple TV/etc.; and 2) I am not putting in surround sound this time. Or a doorbell wire, either.

Since November 2016, I have tried to live my life without politics or football, and it has been the most peaceful time of my life.
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Matsu
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2018-02-16, 05:15

It’s a weird old house. Some things don’t work and need to go, while other things are just nice enough to save, and others still are just in the way.

The previous owners finished the basement - it’s not great, but it’s clean, however it’s been in my way for the past two months because it makes chasing wiring, ducting, and plumbing runs a PITA, unless we start cutting holes in the basement drywall. In retrospect we could have ripped it out, but there wouldn’t have been any place left to live (camp out) while we renovate. It’s also got a giant PITA with the placement of the mechanical room and electrical panels at opposite ends of the house, really? WTF?

In the nice enough to save category we have all the stairs and second floor flooring and woodwork, though both need refinishing.

The first floor (and focus of the renovation) was victim to a bad 1990s remodel with both tiles and laminate laid over existing floors on an already bad layout - so all that stuff is gone and the main floor interior walls are open now. I’ll probably throw in the wires just because, but I haven’t really made use of ethernet for the last ten years, and I see more things going that way: we haven’t had a home phone for almost as long; even cableTV and Fibe now run through wireless terminals.
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drewprops
Magnificent Basturd™
sagacious-d
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2018-02-17, 01:16

I hate to be negative about this product, but it seems like something that would have been great five years ago.


...
  quote
Maciej
M AH - ch ain saw
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2018-02-17, 14:16

Largely agree with Drew. For me, it just isn’t compelling. Half the time Siri is wrong, or just doesn’t understand me so for me to go out on a limb and spend $350 (closer to $400 with tax) on a device that may not work consistently (based on my experience with Siri on my iPhone X) is just a real stretch.

Waiting to see if WWDC brings improvements to Siri, but not holding my breath.
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drewprops
Magnificent Basturd™
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Atlanta
 
2018-02-18, 03:35

It really feels like Apple has lost.
Like, everything.
I know that things change, but this feels big.
...
...
...
  quote
Maciej
M AH - ch ain saw
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2018-02-18, 08:12

I don’t see it that way - but I do think Siri is a dumpster fire.
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kscherer
Ain't got none
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2018-02-19, 00:33

I started this thread because I was a little jaded by the lack of local iTunes support, but that was premature. Our testing shows that it works with Airplay just fine; that Siri searches through an Airplay library just fine; is mostly accurate; and the fool thing sounds amazing, no matter where it rests—and no matter what angle you listen from.

Remember, folks, the Apple iPod HiFi was $349 and it sucked. This thing is $349 and is awesome. If you want a really good speaker for your iTunes crap, go get one. If you want a box that listens to everything you say, collects as much personal information as it can, then delivers that information to a crooked company that will sell that data to the highest bidder so you can be more accurately targeted by ads, then go buy an Alexa or a Google [whatever they call it today] thing.

If you want (or expect) it to be anything more than a really good speaker, you will be disappointed.

Edit: I can't say many good things about Siri, but as a music player it works just fine.

Since November 2016, I have tried to live my life without politics or football, and it has been the most peaceful time of my life.
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Yontsey
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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2018-04-28, 15:28

Now with Airplay 2 coming to Sonos, I don't know why anyone would choose the HomePod over Sonos unless it's specifically for Siri integration.
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drewprops
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Join Date: May 2004
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2018-04-29, 01:23

Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherer View Post
....If you want a box that listens to everything you say, collects as much personal information as it can, then delivers that information to a crooked company that will sell that data to the highest bidder so you can be more accurately targeted by ads, then go buy an Alexa or a Google [whatever they call it today] thing...

TIM COOK GOT TO HIM!!!!





...
  quote
heymargaux
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Join Date: Mar 2018
 
2018-05-22, 22:25

That is how business work, its all about money. If you badly want it then you have to pay for it.
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spotcatbug
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Clayton, NC
 
2018-05-23, 08:51

If I get a HomePod for my home office, what happens when I say "Hey, Siri," with my iPhone on my desk next to me?

Which device takes the request, HomePod or iPhone?

I never though about multiple iDevices within listening distance before. My Mac doesn't have a mic, so I can't test.

Ugh.
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chucker
 
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2018-05-23, 10:54

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208472

Quote:
When you say "Hey Siri" near multiple devices that support "Hey Siri," the devices quickly communicate to each other using Bluetooth to determine which one should respond to the request. The device that heard you best or was recently raised will respond.
HomePod responds to most Siri requests, even if there are other devices that support "Hey Siri" nearby. If you want to use Siri on a specific device, raise to wake that device or press the button to use Siri, then make your request.
So if you're currently using a device, that'll take priority. If not, HomePod will. If you don't have one, the one you most recently used will.

In theory, anyway.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tidewater Virginia
 
2018-06-01, 14:06

I've seen that between my Watch and iPhone. If my Watch is the last one I talked to it will default to it as an example.
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turtle
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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2018-11-14, 11:53

I have a question about this thing. Does it actually require Apple Music to be useful for music playback? I have iTunes Match and build playlists and such there. Can the Homepod play those playlists rather than make me pay monthly for something I don't want?

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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chucker
 
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2018-11-14, 13:23

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
I have a question about this thing. Does it actually require Apple Music to be useful for music playback? I have iTunes Match and build playlists and such there. Can the Homepod play those playlists rather than make me pay monthly for something I don't want?
You can AirPlay anything to it, but if you want to choose songs via Siri right from the HomePod, you need Apple Music. (If you use the Mac's Siri, that should work fine…)
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
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2018-11-14, 13:31

So it would be an Airplay speaker for me and that's about it? I mean, Siri questions too...but music wise I'd be stuck with it being a target and not a source.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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chucker
 
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2018-11-14, 20:18

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
So it would be an Airplay speaker for me and that's about it? I mean, Siri questions too...but music wise I'd be stuck with it being a target and not a source.
I don’t think there’s additional sources at this point. Maybe someday (Apple Watch just gained APIs apps like Spotify can use, so I don’t think it’s that unlikely).

The bigger issue for me is limitation to a single account.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
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2018-11-27, 15:35

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
I don’t think there’s additional sources at this point. Maybe someday (Apple Watch just gained APIs apps like Spotify can use, so I don’t think it’s that unlikely).

The bigger issue for me is limitation to a single account.
I meant to get back to this post sooner. I'm not shocked about the single account. It's really iOS and those are all one user OSs. Even though I would love for my kids to be able to switch accounts and have one device, Apple would rather I have multiple devices.

Really though, for phones and tablets the coding would have to change so much for multi-user support. Not that it isn't doable, I just don't envision it any time soon.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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Matsu
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Join Date: May 2004
 
2018-11-28, 08:06

I may like something Sonos for whole home (main floor) audio. I’ve heard it used in a large commercial space, and it really was effective. My local furniture warehouse has a collection of Sonos Play1 and Play3 spread around their two level showroom and they filled the space seamlessly. It was very impressive - clean sound all around a very large warehouse, no hotspots, just nice room fillling sound.

Due to the layout of the first floor, I didn’t go for any built in audio solutions, I did provide plenty of evenly spaced electrical outlets in every room, and ethernet beside most of them. The main space has become about a 750 sq ft irregular shaped open area encompassing a lofted two story stair on one end, a kitchen on the other, a roughly 11x12’ nook at the front, and central four foot support/accent wall holding a couple of beams near the centre.

My thought here is to do like the furniture store and grab a couple of Play1 two packs (4 speakers to start) and hide them around the space for ambient audio, maybe going as far as 6-8 scattered along two banks/zones.

I wonder how two HomePod s would compare to 4 Play1s in such an application?
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chucker
 
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2018-11-28, 13:44

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
I meant to get back to this post sooner. I'm not shocked about the single account. It's really iOS and those are all one user OSs. Even though I would love for my kids to be able to switch accounts and have one device, Apple would rather I have multiple devices.
That may be true as far as the business is concerned, but I think it's a bit more nuanced:
  • the origins of iOS are on iPhone, where a single-user limitation kind of makes sense (yes, there are exceptions even to that, but I find this limitation largely reasonable)
  • the same is true on Apple Watch
  • on iPad, it's a lot less true. And they've already broken that rule for education anyway.
  • it doesn't really make any sense for me on HomePod. You can't really argue "just buy another one", as households don't generally have one living room per person. The device is clearly largely designed to be used by multiple people.

The challenges also differ: on the iPad, surely we're envisioning a Mac-like experience where the lockscreen doubles as a user account switcher. Done. This does complicate some things, like whether installed apps are shared among users (probably easiest to answer that with a resounding no), and to which extent some settings apply to multiple users and others don't, but this seems… somewhat solvable.

It's far more complicated on HomePod — you don't really authenticate with HomePod. Siri would suddenly need to either recognize multiple distinct voices as different users, and/or accept some form of authentication.

My understanding is that Alexa and Google Home just ignore the latter part and only recognize different voices. That doesn't seem like a great solution?

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
Really though, for phones and tablets the coding would have to change so much for multi-user support. Not that it isn't doable, I just don't envision it any time soon.
I think I wouldn't quite be that pessimistic.

I'm not sure why they made such weird limitations (why does iOS have a /User directory, and hardcoded passwords, to boot? seems like a needless lack of foresight), but ultimately, they're all related to macOS, which handles multiple users just fine.

In fact, given that the two have sort of evolved in parallel and macOS has inherited some iOS capabilities but in its own fashion (for example, App Sandbox works per-user using the ~/Library/Containers structure), the plan all along may have been to wait for multi-user capabilities to mature enough before they get merged back to iOS.

To summarize, ironically, HomePod is both the platform where I find multi-user support the hardest to solve and also the one where I find it the most essential. A single-user device in a household living room is just… dumb.
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Yontsey
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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2018-11-28, 20:04

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
I may like something Sonos for whole home (main floor) audio. I’ve heard it used in a large commercial space, and it really was effective. My local furniture warehouse has a collection of Sonos Play1 and Play3 spread around their two level showroom and they filled the space seamlessly. It was very impressive - clean sound all around a very large warehouse, no hotspots, just nice room fillling sound.

Due to the layout of the first floor, I didn’t go for any built in audio solutions, I did provide plenty of evenly spaced electrical outlets in every room, and ethernet beside most of them. The main space has become about a 750 sq ft irregular shaped open area encompassing a lofted two story stair on one end, a kitchen on the other, a roughly 11x12’ nook at the front, and central four foot support/accent wall holding a couple of beams near the centre.

My thought here is to do like the furniture store and grab a couple of Play1 two packs (4 speakers to start) and hide them around the space for ambient audio, maybe going as far as 6-8 scattered along two banks/zones.

I wonder how two HomePod s would compare to 4 Play1s in such an application?
I highly recommend Sonos. I have 2 Play:One paired in stereo, 1 Play:One in the kitchen, 1 One in the bathroom, a Play:Five in the living room, and Connect Amp in my gym and one running my
Patio speakers. To be able to control all of them and group together in one app is amazing. They have a lot of music services and the one or two I find they don’t have I just play via Air Play 2. It’s pricy but in my mind it’s virtually everything I want.

Die young and save yourself....
@yontsey
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