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Too early for MWSF speculation?


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Too early for MWSF speculation?
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Anthem
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Join Date: Jun 2005
 
2006-11-06, 11:47

I keep lusting after a mini. I can't see them updating again before Christmas, which probably means it won't happen before MWSF. They already got rid of the Core Solo (hallelujah), but a move up to Core 2 Duo won't bother me any. All of the units are a little overpriced (I think the $499 price point makes sense), but I'm used to that. The real issue, though, is how weak the low-end model is. I shouldn't have to spend $800 to get a computer with a DVD burner, and if I'm going to spend that much, I'm not going to want integrated graphics.

A voucher for a free OS upgrade (too much to hope that it will be ready by MWSF) wouldn't rub me the wrong way either.

Any other massive improvements you're hoping for? Or is there still time this season for new/updated products?
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Robo
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2006-11-06, 15:22

Y'know, I can't think of any other $600 desktops with dedicated graphics, with the exception of ultra-budget gaming rigs. Would dedicated graphics be nice? Of course. Does the Mac mini need them to be competitive? No. Will Apple add dedicated graphics to the Mac mini anytime in the near future? Probably not.

I'm pretty sure the next Mac mini will still have a Combo Drive, too.

Maybe we will see that price drop, but really, the thing I'm hoping for most from Apple is 1GB of RAM standard on all models.

i won't let you hurt my planet / and i won't let you hurt my friends
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chucker
 
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2006-11-06, 15:25

I think having SuperDrives standard should really happen sooner rather than later, with Apple promoting iLife so heavily.
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Fahrenheit
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2006-11-06, 15:49

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
I think having SuperDrives standard should really happen sooner rather than later, with Apple promoting iLife so heavily.
Agreed, having no superdrive really restricts iDvd completely, and although I don't know this for fact, the cost to manufacture a superdrive must be negligible over that of the combo.
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Anthem
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2006-11-06, 20:40

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman View Post
Y'know, I can't think of any other $600 desktops with dedicated graphics, with the exception of ultra-budget gaming rigs.
The original $499 Mac Mini had dedicated graphics. I can't imagine that it would be harder or more expensive now.
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Robo
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2006-11-06, 22:04

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
The original $499 Mac Mini had dedicated graphics. I can't imagine that it would be harder or more expensive now.
True...but the Intel Mac mini added a second RAM slot and two more USB ports. I'd imagine space might be an issue.
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rollercoaster375
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2006-11-06, 22:18

I'd personally be very willing to spend another $300 for a mini with dedicated graphics over one without. (That is, if I was in the market for a desktop, or any compute for that matter)

I really have nothing to put here, but I feel it's rather strange to not have one.
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Luca
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2006-11-06, 22:23

Space and heat are the two most often cited excuses for why Apple can't include this or can't include that. I see people say these all the time, but it's almost never true. The reason is cost, and nothing else.

Adding USB ports or a second RAM slot did not prevent Apple from including dedicated graphics. They have nothing to do with each other. That's like saying that because you're carrying a full backpack, you can't put anything in your pockets. Or that because it's an even-numbered year, you're not able to eat tuna noodle casserole. It makes no sense at all.

Every computer has some kind of GPU. The "dedicated graphics" of the G4 mini consisted merely of a Radeon 9200 GPU soldered onto the mainboard, with a couple of tiny VRAM chips also soldered to the board next to it. The "integrated graphics" of the Intel mini still consist of an Intel GMA 950 GPU soldered to the mainboard, except instead of having VRAM chips there, the GMA 950 simply uses a portion of the system RAM as a frame buffer instead.

Furthermore, the term "integrated graphics" refers to ANY GPU that is built into the computer. The old mini's GPU was integrated into the computer and could not be removed. The current MacBook Pro uses integrated graphics - that is, the Mobility Radeon X1600 is integrated into the MBP's mainboard. People use this wrong all the time. Integrated = built in. Shared = shares system RAM instead of using dedicated VRAM.
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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2006-11-06, 23:24

Well, sorry.
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iDaver
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2006-11-07, 01:29

MWSF isn't usually about upgrades. Upgrades typically come via low-key updates at apple.com.

I'd expect some kind of new hardware introduction at MWSF; either a whole new Mac, a new line of displays, or an early release of "iTV." Most of the keynote will probably be dedicated to Leopard (even though its release there is unlikely) but there's gotta be one more thing. It won't likely be upgraded minis. Perhaps the iPod true-video.
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SpecMode
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Join Date: Feb 2005
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2006-11-07, 02:03

Well, regardless of what actually ends up being released at MWSF07, I'll be damned if I'm not gonna see it all live and in person this time around. I'm still steamed over having to miss the expo this year (darned carrier operations schedule), especially after being there for '04 and '05, and I have no intentions of missing the show again.

That being said, some highlights I'm looking forward to:

-iTV (or whatever it's eventually going to be called)
-Leopard (a gimme)
-An expo hall that isn't >50% iPod accessories (OK, maybe a bit exaggerated...but not by much)

Any other AppleNovians planning on making the trip to SF in January?
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MagSafe
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Join Date: Apr 2006
 
2006-11-07, 03:57

My most wanted:

iWork '07 with Spreadsheet
PDA / iPhone device

I'm hoping for a PDA device ... some sort of ultra-portable organiser that syncs with iCal & Address Book and finally getting a dedicated spreadsheet app for iWork would be nice.

An early arrival of Leopard wouldn't go a miss, although the later the better as I want to get some decent hard drives for storage and using with Time Machine

My 60GB iPod Video is doing me fine for now, a full screen iPod wouldn't really be on my top 'must buy' list, and neither would an iTV to be honest.

Overall though i'm looking forward to the lead up to Macworld in the coming months, it's good to see everyone get into the Apple mood again and see some completey new technology.

Find me on Twitter: @StevenMcLintock
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joveblue
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2006-11-07, 04:28

I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with iWork.
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Luca
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2006-11-07, 04:56

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman View Post
Well, sorry.
No, I'm sorry, I shouldn't have overreacted. It's just that I see the "space/heat" excuse SO OFTEN and it's virtually never true, so I overreacted somewhat. I still stand behind what I say, but I'm not angry at you specifically or anything. I'm just frustrated that "too hot" or "not enough physical room inside" have become so widely accepted in the Mac community when they're almost never true.

Here are some areas in which Macs are in fact limited by heat and/or space:

- The MacBook Pro's GPU is downclocked to reduce heat and power consumption.
- The MBP is apparently tight enough inside that it can't accommodate the more useful ExpressCard/54 slot, only the ExpressCard/34. I haven't seen any diagrams confirming this, and it seemed at first like Apple was just needlessly crippling it, but it does make sense that they wouldn't have room inside for an extra 20mm wide slot.
- The Mac mini cannot fit a 3.5" hard drive inside. Those things are huge compared to 2.5" ones, not just in width, but in height, depth, and weight. They'd have to nearly double the size of the computer to fit one in there.
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chucker
 
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2006-11-07, 06:03

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca View Post
- The MacBook Pro's GPU is downclocked to reduce heat and power consumption.
Not any more.

Quote:
- The MBP is apparently tight enough inside that it can't accommodate the more useful ExpressCard/54 slot, only the ExpressCard/34. I haven't seen any diagrams confirming this, and it seemed at first like Apple was just needlessly crippling it, but it does make sense that they wouldn't have room inside for an extra 20mm wide slot.
Yep, it's true. In fact, the FW 800 port required them to shift all other ports away slightly (e.g., the DVI port is slightly closer to the corner).
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Bryson
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2006-11-07, 06:11

...then why does my 17" only have a 34 slot in it, eh?
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Luca
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2006-11-07, 06:23

To prevent third parties from bothering to make "17"-only" ExpressCard devices and leaving 15" MBP users out cold?

There aren't very many Mac-compatible peripherals anyway. Even though the the 54mm version is backwards-compatible with the 34mm version, I doubt many companies would bother making 54mm ExpressCards if their entire potential customer base was 17" MBP owners. It simply wouldn't make sense to include a larger slot because it would never be used.
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Anthem
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Join Date: Jun 2005
 
2006-11-07, 09:25

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca View Post
- The Mac mini cannot fit a 3.5" hard drive inside. Those things are huge compared to 2.5" ones, not just in width, but in height, depth, and weight. They'd have to nearly double the size of the computer to fit one in there.
I'd be ok with a Mac Mini that was an inch taller. Wouldn't bother me a bit.

Seriously, though, at some point Superdrives have to become a standard feature, right? I mean, you can still differentiate by speed and by dual-layer, but basic DVD creativity is one of the big selling points of iLife.

My wife and I have a daughter due in February, and I'm thinking it's time to go all digital.
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Wyatt
On twitter: @bwyatt
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Near Indianapolis
 
2006-11-07, 09:47

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca View Post
Adding USB ports or a second RAM slot did not prevent Apple from including dedicated graphics. They have nothing to do with each other. That's like saying that because you're carrying a full backpack, you can't put anything in your pockets. Or that because it's an even-numbered year, you're not able to eat tuna noodle casserole. It makes no sense at all.


I'm predicting:
iLife 07 - No new applications, new versions of everything, easier non-.Mac publishing with iWeb
iWork 07 - Spreadsheet app, new versions of Pages and Keynote
iPhone - Yeah, I think it's time. I also think we'll see Apple go with unlocked GSM. It may sound crazy, but that makes it easier to sell globally right away. The Cingular thing almost undoubtedly fell through after they launched their own music service, and MVNOs are extremely expensive and rarely profitable (look how quickly ESPN Mobile went under -- Jobs witnessed that firsthand as a major player within Disney, and I doubt he'd put Apple through that). No way will they go T-Mobile-only in the US, either. Unlocked GSM, all the way. iPod nano capacity (I'm thinking 2 GB or 4 GB), high-speed data compatible.
Leopard - A release date, all the new features. I'm not ready to call the features yet. I'll come back to that.
iTV - Finally named and shipping immediately, 802.11n in all Macs, and a new Airport base station with 802.11n capability
Macs - No new machines, Core 2 Duo Mac mini, Super Drives standard across the line, 1 GB RAM standard in everything but the mini.

One more thing:
iPod - Touch-screen iPod finally released. Same basic functionality as the 5G, but available in 60, 80, and 100 GB capacities. Some PDA functionality (editing calendars/contacts). No full-on PDA. Not now, not ever.

Twitter: bwyatt | Minecraft: bwyatt_IN
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Fahrenheit
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2006-11-07, 12:10

http://www.play.com/PC/PCs/-/707/915...archtype=genre

:0
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chucker
 
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2006-11-07, 12:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farenheit View Post
Much ado about a typo

There is no such thing as a 2 GHz Core 2 Duo with 2 MBs of cache.
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Fahrenheit
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2006-11-07, 12:15

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Much ado about a typo

There is no such thing as a 2 GHz Core 2 Duo with 2 MBs of cache.
Thats why its on pre-order, duh.
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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2006-11-07, 16:00

AppleInsider is reporting that we could see C2D MacBooks before Thanksgiving, as well. I think that makes sense. But that doesn't have anything to do with this thread...

...except that it will be interesting to see what Apple does with the black model. If they drop the price and make it just a black version of the $1,299 model, then hope for a 13" MacBook Pro will be restored.

i won't let you hurt my planet / and i won't let you hurt my friends
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Anthem
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Join Date: Jun 2005
 
2006-11-07, 17:02

Quote:
Originally Posted by fcgriz View Post
iPhone - Yeah, I think it's time. I also think we'll see Apple go with unlocked GSM. It may sound crazy, but that makes it easier to sell globally right away. The Cingular thing almost undoubtedly fell through after they launched their own music service, and MVNOs are extremely expensive and rarely profitable (look how quickly ESPN Mobile went under -- Jobs witnessed that firsthand as a major player within Disney, and I doubt he'd put Apple through that). No way will they go T-Mobile-only in the US, either. Unlocked GSM, all the way. iPod nano capacity (I'm thinking 2 GB or 4 GB), high-speed data compatible.

iPod - Touch-screen iPod finally released. Same basic functionality as the 5G, but available in 60, 80, and 100 GB capacities. Some PDA functionality (editing calendars/contacts). No full-on PDA. Not now, not ever.
Either of those is a good idea. But rolling both out at once would be counterproductive.
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Roland
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Join Date: Nov 2004
 
2006-11-07, 17:40

none glossy macbook screen, thank you.
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MagSafe
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Join Date: Apr 2006
 
2006-11-08, 04:17

Quote:
Originally Posted by fcgriz View Post


I'm predicting:

One more thing:
iPod - Touch-screen iPod finally released. Same basic functionality as the 5G, but available in 60, 80, and 100 GB capacities. Some PDA functionality (editing calendars/contacts). No full-on PDA. Not now, not ever.
I hope your right , an iPod with a large screen that can edit and easily display your calender and address book would be perfect, while displaying video's on a massive screen.

Find me on Twitter: @StevenMcLintock
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Wyatt
On twitter: @bwyatt
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
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2006-11-08, 08:31

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagSafe View Post
I hope your right , an iPod with a large screen that can edit and easily display your calender and address book would be perfect, while displaying video's on a massive screen.
That's pretty much what I want, too. Maybe my post was a little wishful thinking, but I really think that if they go touchscreen, calendar/contact editing is the next logical evolution for the iPod software.

Twitter: bwyatt | Minecraft: bwyatt_IN
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Dovek916
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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2006-11-08, 21:05

honestly, I think that There is going to be something really big. I mean, they just updateded all there computer lines( mb, mbp, imac, mac mini, and mac pro soon) they just released Aperture 1.5, they gave us a preview of iTV, i mean either, the big thing will be a new os, thats a secret, and that will have to tide us until paris, or there is something huge and enormous like an iphone/mac pro all in one, dimensions 3 inches by 1.5 inches by .1 and it is $25 and i'm god, well, its just a dream, but a boy can dream, can't he?

Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies.
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Robo
Formerly Roboman, still
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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2006-11-08, 21:35

fcgriz, why don't you think the iPhone will go with T-Mobile? I'm curious.

I agree that unlocked GSM seems to be the most likely route, but T-Mobile does seem to be trying to woo Apple. An executive recently made a comment about how "Apple and T-Mobile are perfect partners" and stuff.

i won't let you hurt my planet / and i won't let you hurt my friends
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Wyatt
On twitter: @bwyatt
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Near Indianapolis
 
2006-11-08, 22:49

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboman View Post
fcgriz, why don't you think the iPhone will go with T-Mobile? I'm curious.

I agree that unlocked GSM seems to be the most likely route, but T-Mobile does seem to be trying to woo Apple. An executive recently made a comment about how "Apple and T-Mobile are perfect partners" and stuff.
T-Mobile's market share in the US is very small (sorry for not linking--it's late and I'm getting ready to go to bed). They might work out a deal with T-Mobile for a contract discount, but I think an unlocked version is still the most viable. After all, Cingular is the largest carrier in the US.

If you want some numbers, I'll dig some up tomorrow, but I just don't see a T-Mobile exclusive in the cards (although a short-term one might not be bad--maybe something similar to the 6-month Cingular exclusive rumor we saw).

Twitter: bwyatt | Minecraft: bwyatt_IN
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