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Open Letter to .Mac


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Open Letter to .Mac
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scratt
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2007-02-18, 00:43

Dear .Mac,

Thanks for your service over the last couple of years. It has been an interesting experience, and I don't begrudge the money as you are part of a company that I don't mind funding, even if it is for some really bad ideas at times! Heck we'll never learn if we don't all pitch in and try.

However, I feel it is time for a parting of the ways.. I will outline my reasons below..

1. I am getting really tired of having to juggle emails in and out of my .Mac account as it does not have enough storage to now hold the 2 or 3 years of emails that I have chosen to keep, out of the large bulk I have thrown away. For that reason I now use my Gmail account for all important emails that I may want to keep forever. In that sense the pride and sense of belonging I used to have with my .Mac account has kind of switched to my Gmail account, and I increasingly give that to my bankers, business colleagues and friends as the one to contact me on. I also feel that it is a little facist to bounce emails when an account is a MB or two over it's limit, rather than send some warning messages a little earlier, or allow long standing users a bit of leeway with their mail limits - at least for a few days, when they are perhaps on holiday or otherwise occupied. Heck why not even eat up some of the iDisk space automatically to help the mail account out a bit in the short term. The latter is exactly the kind of feature I expect from something coming from a company with such pedigree.

2. When I am mobile (which I am a lot) the IMAP mail system is just too damn slow to be useful, and I now often don't check my .Mac account until I get home, often missing important emails. Conversely the anitquated POP account of Gmail is never a problem to access from anywhere.

3. iDisk - It just doesn't work, and when it does it is so slow. Why does it take 3 hours to delete the contents of a few folders on my iDisk, and why does that kill Finder!??!

4. iCal - Very nice, but unfortunately not unique any more, and not worth the money charged for it anymore. Sorry. (When I say 'charged for' I am lumping that in with the .Mac fee).

5. iBackup - I have used this on occasion to rescue files, and yes it does work. But I tend to max out any service I use, and expect it to cope. Rumours on the intarweb have me concerned that some of my very large backups - which I cannot afford to lose and rely on heavily - will not actually be readable when I need to access them. This is not a risk anyone can take, and is not what I expect from an OEM backup utility.

I could go on, but the bottom line is that the money I pay each November is not worth what is effectively an email account, with some eye-candy. Not when we have all been pointing out to you for a couple of years now that all the other *free* email providers offer more storage than your premium service affords us.

Finally, where are my exclusive widgets? That really stung, and you have not really put anything else up exclusively for .Mac users other than a few early demos of software which was widely distributed anyway, and software which only works if you pay the fee for the .Mac account, thus locking you in.

That last point you want to watch out for when Steve starts saying he hates DRM, as some less charitable people than myself could turn arround and argue that .Mac has DRM built in to peoples backups!! Not good.

So in November, I'll say goodbye, and thanks. And even if you do do some funky interfacing between .Mac and the iPhone (said services will probably only work / be available in the US anyway), it's not going to be anything that Google doesn't also provide for free, or I can write for myself for free!

So so long, and thanks for all the emails, as they say.... and I wish you well .Mac.

Kind regards,
scratt

'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
Extreme Sports Cafe | ESC's blog | scratt's blog | @thescratt

Last edited by scratt : 2007-02-18 at 01:25.
  quote
turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
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2007-02-18, 01:02

Well worded. I think they'll get the point.
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Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2007-02-18, 01:43

I know this isn't targeted to me, per say, but I cannot help myself!

Quote:
Originally Posted by scratt View Post
1. I am getting really tired of having to juggle emails in and out of my .Mac account as it does not have enough storage to now hold the 2 or 3 years of emails that I have chosen to keep, out of the large bulk I have thrown away.
Have you allocated your mail a greater portion of your 1GB storage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scratt View Post
I also feel that it is a little facist to bounce emails...
"Fascist"? Really? If you believe Apple to be fascist, then there would be no point to sending this letter in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scratt View Post
3. iDisk - It just doesn't work, and when it does it is so slow. Why does it take 3 hours to delete the contents of a few folders on my iDisk, and why does that kill Finder!??!
That's the Finder's fault, not iDisk. FTFF is what you should be preaching. Other WebDAV clients (such as Transmit) perform much more quickly and reliably.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scratt View Post
4. iCal - Very nice, but unfortunately not unique any more, and not worth the money charged for it anymore. Sorry. (When I say 'charged for' I am lumping that in with the .Mac fee).
iCal is part of Mac OS X. Do you mean the online publishing feature which doesn't need .Mac?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scratt View Post
5. iBackup - I have used this on occasion to resuce files, and yes it does work. But I tend to max out any service I use, and expect it to cope. Rumours on the intarweb have me concerned that some of my very large backups - which I cannot afford to lose and rely on heavily - will not actually be readable when I need to access them. This is not a risk anyone can take, and is not what I expect from an OEM backup utility.
"Rumours on the intarweb" indeed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by scratt View Post
I could go on, but the bottom line is that the money I pay each November is not worth what is effectively an email account, with some eye-candy. Not when we have all been pointing out to you for a couple of years now that all the other *free* email providers offer more storage than your premium service affords us.
Until you decide to vote with your wallet, what incentive does Apple have to change, especially since you freely admit to putting up with this for years?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scratt View Post
That last point you want to watch out for when Steve starts saying he hates DRM, as some less charitable people than myself could turn arround and argue that .Mac has DRM built in to peoples backups!! Not good.
.Mac backups use DRM? That's the first I've read of such a thing. Care to share the details? Searching Google isn't helping me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scratt View Post
So in November, I'll say goodbye, and thanks. And even if you do do some funky interfacing between .Mac and the iPhone (said services will probably only work / be available in the US anyway), it's not going to be anything that Google doesn't also provide for free, or I can write for myself for free!
Ah, there's that whole "voting with one's wallet" bit.

Also, do keep in mind that those services are not truly free. You pay for Gmail, for example, by allowing Google to index your messages, glean information about you from them, and serve you advertisements to you based on that information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scratt View Post
So so long, and thanks for all the emails, as they say.... and I wish you well .Mac.
You should've stuck with "So long and thanks for all the fish!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle2472 View Post
Well worded. I think they'll get the point.
I respectfully disagree, but I do understand what he's going for here.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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chucker
 
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2007-02-18, 01:46

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
That's the Finder's fault, not iDisk. FTFF is what you should be preaching. Other WebDAV clients (such as Transmit) perform much more quickly and reliably.
If you're gonna get nitpicky, then blame it on Disk Arbitration instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
"Rumours on the intarweb" indeed!
Actually, Backup 3's low reliability is well-documented.

http://nslog.com/2005/10/17/apples_backup_app_is_shit
http://rentzsch.com/suck/backup3
  quote
Brad
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2007-02-18, 01:59

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Actually, Backup 3's low reliability is well-documented.
I don't discount that Backup.app sucks. I just think it's rather hilarious to cite "rumours on the intarweb" as basis for a complaint.
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chucker
 
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2007-02-18, 02:31

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
I don't discount that Backup.app sucks. I just think it's rather hilarious to cite "rumours on the intarweb" as basis for a complaint.
Fair 'nuff.
  quote
Luca
ಠ_ರೃ
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
 
2007-02-18, 05:18

I agree with pretty much everything here but sending them an email isn't really going to do anything. Just vote with your wallet. I'm sure lots more people are leaving .mac each year than are joining up. Eventually they'll have to provide a better value for money - either by cutting the price (in half would be about right), providing many more features, or both.

EDIT: I guess they won't ever really HAVE to provide a better value, but if there are few enough people using .mac, it'll eventually cost more to run than it actually makes. I don't know where that point is, but if it ever gets to that point, Apple will have to decide between running .mac at a cost, improving the value to attract more signups, or killing it off and leaving its few remaining users out to dry.
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scratt
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2007-02-18, 08:15

Sorry I did not get back to this thread to see the replies.. Believe it or not but I got no notifications in my .Mac account, which is what is registered here!

I take your points Brad, but I think you took it all way too seriously. I have hung onto .Mac becuase I do value having a paid email address which I can use as a fixed contact on the internet. I have also hung on loyally waiting for Apple to address many of the issues. Now I have hit a limit, and that is all this letter is about...

With regards to iCal, yes I am talking about the publishing feature, but also with the syncing, and other associated components, which then brings .Mac and iSync into the debate also. On more than one occasion I have had to repair a very bad sync, or worse still, re-create my info when snycing went wrong between machines. I do not ever expect that to happen with anything other than Beta software. And, as with all things, I found a stable way to use the service without problems, or shifted my needs elsewhere. But I do think it sucks that this, as well as finder issues, and the incredibly well documented 'rumours on the interweb' about Backup being buggy with large files, have not all been dealt with by now.

The 'rumours on the intarweb' was meant to be funny.
And I do know how to re-size my allocation for files / mail in .Mac. I just think it's crud in it's current implementation.

And, yes I will stay with .Mac until November, and then not renew. In that sense I am giving a company I do respect yet more time to sort it out. Also I can't do much more than let my account lapse, as I don't think I can cancel and get a refund.

To be more specific to your comments Brad, in a general way, if that is possible.... *screech* Wow, that's a record for a sentence going wrong before it said anything. Anyway.. With regards to the Finder, and other problems related to OS X.. The fact that those problems are in OS X is irrelevant. If Apple provide a mail / storage service, which is specifically tailored to their OS, then they have a duty to make it all work together properly. So it's totally irrelevant that the finder is the problem with getting access to your iDisk. The problem is you cannot 'use' .Mac using the standard OS tools provided by the operating system it is specifically set up to be an extension of, and that is just plain dumb. So wherever that problem is it stops me using .Mac as advertised. That is the real issue. And who do I talk to about that? Well it's Apple in both cases... Which takes us right back to the beginning of the thread.

EDIT - Ah, yes. And the DRM thing. Well, as far as I understand the backups you make with iBackup can only be restored with iBackup, and that needs to validate your .Mac account *before* it will do that. In that sense once I cancel my .Mac subscription then my iBackup, backups are useless to me unless I break the law. My backups are 'Digitial', this is to do with my 'Rights' to use my files / backups, and it's being 'Managed' by Apple. QED: Apple uses DRM on your Backups to lock you into .Mac.

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. At the end of the day that was what I hoped the thread would bring.

'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
Extreme Sports Cafe | ESC's blog | scratt's blog | @thescratt

Last edited by scratt : 2007-02-18 at 21:53.
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torifile
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2007-02-18, 09:26

I've had similar sentiments for some time now. I just haven't gotten around to figuring a suitable replacement despite my best intentions and people's suggestions about what to use instead.

If it's not red and showing substantial musculature, you're wearing it wrong.
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chucker
 
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2007-02-18, 10:31

There is no single suitable replacement, I'm afraid. That's .mac's strength; it's all-in-one. But once you're okay with splitting into several separate services, you generally get much better offers. Then, only the syncing remains a strong part.

For webmail, you can get Yahoo! Mail instead, which aside from the ads has an excellent interface that makes Gmail look awful.
For iPhoto, use Flickr; that much is a no-brainer – there's many good tools to sync between your computer and Flickr.
Etc.
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Dorian Gray
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2007-02-18, 14:18

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker
For webmail, you can get Yahoo! Mail instead, which aside from the ads has an excellent interface that makes Gmail look awful.
Yahoo! Mail kicks ass so bad it isn't funny. By far the best webmail service I've used. I really wish I hadn't been stupid enough to start using my Gmail address for so much stuff as well. Should I bite the bullet now and stop using it, or should I delay the inevitable pain a while longer, that is the question... I hate the endless complexity of the internet (and don't share your love of Flickr).

… engrossed in such factional acts as dreaming different dreams.
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PKIDelirium
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2007-02-18, 14:29

The Yahoo Mail Beta interface is pretty crappy.
  quote
Shades of Blue
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2007-02-18, 15:02

What makes Yahoo Mail better than Gmail? I'm using Gmail now, but I like IMAP and I understand Yahoo Mail has that. What else makes it better? I've played with the interface for a few minutes but am not sure exactly what people are seeing that makes it a lot better.
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chucker
 
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2007-02-18, 15:07

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shades of Blue View Post
What makes Yahoo Mail better than Gmail? I'm using Gmail now, but I like IMAP and I understand Yahoo Mail has that. What else makes it better? I've played with the interface for a few minutes but am not sure exactly what people are seeing that makes it a lot better.
Drag & drop, scrolling instead of pagination, a more GUI-like arrangement of toolbars, a tabbed interface, …

Are you sure you're using the new interface?

  quote
JK47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
 
2007-02-18, 15:26

I think .mac is one of the products that Apple could just care less about.

How long did it take them to update the IMAP mail to be continuous with OS X's mail.app? I think it was ~ 2 years.
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Kraetos
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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2007-02-18, 15:34

I don't use .Mac email anymore. Pretty much all I use .Mac for is sync, and I am sure their are third party apps that could do it the same or better.

That said, if I were playing for .Mac on my own dime, I would stop. But I'm not so I guess I'll just stick with it.

Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.
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Shades of Blue
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2007-02-18, 15:47

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Are you sure you're using the new interface?
Ah, is the new interface the Beta interface? I'm using Safari and it told me I couldn't use the Beta interface with Safari.

And does it turn out I was wrong? Yahoo doesn't have IMAP capability? Or is it hidden someplace?
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chucker
 
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2007-02-18, 15:56

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shades of Blue View Post
And does it turn out I was wrong? Yahoo doesn't have IMAP capability? Or is it hidden someplace?
IMAP is sadly for-pay-only.

And yes, Safari sadly still isn't supported by the new interface. Firefox is, however.
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thegelding
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2007-02-18, 16:14

i use it for the homepage and iWeb (and mail, but i could use another mail app if i had to)...will likely keep it always just for that feature...love my homepage

g

crazy is not a rare human condition

everything is food if you chew hard enough
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
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2007-02-18, 17:41

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegelding View Post
i use it for the homepage and iWeb (and mail, but i could use another mail app if i had to)...will likely keep it always just for that feature...love my homepage

g
I use about:blank for my homepage. What's the address for .Mac's? I'll give it a shot.
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JK47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
 
2007-02-18, 19:23

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shades of Blue View Post
Ah, is the new interface the Beta interface? I'm using Safari and it told me I couldn't use the Beta interface with Safari.
Ditto. I just tried:
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Wyatt
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2007-02-18, 19:51

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle2472 View Post
I use about:blank for my homepage. What's the address for .Mac's? I'll give it a shot.
I think he means his personal web page, not his browser's startup page.
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turtle
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2007-02-18, 20:24

Quote:
Originally Posted by fcgriz View Post
I think he means his personal web page, not his browser's startup page.
Oh, Well I do use iWeb and .Mac a lot. This makes it well worth it to me. iDisk is always being use now for me too since I quit my job and am a student now. I haven't had an issue with .Mac mail either. It even works well with my WM5 phone. I guess it must just be good in my area.

Alias addresses are the bomb too. I love being able to give out a trashable account. I have an alias just for my web sign ups.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a nation of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
Visit our archived Minecraft world! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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rasmits
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2007-02-18, 21:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle2472 View Post
Alias addresses are the bomb too. I love being able to give out a trashable account. I have an alias just for my web sign ups.
I completely agree. I love email aliases. I'm surprised more webmail services haven't adopted similar features.
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scratt
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2007-02-18, 21:51

Now that is a good feature of .Mac. I must mention it to Google...
  quote
psmith2.0
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2007-02-19, 10:30

scratt, research and observation has shown that your best approach in this matter is an online petition. They really do work, and companies always respond to them. And people love participating in them because they know they bring results!













[long cane comes out, hooks around my neck and yanks me off the stage as the tomatoes fly]
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scratt
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2007-02-19, 22:10

Absolutely..

I was also thinking of starting a Digg article with 'AMAZING', 'SURVIVES BEING EATEN ALIVE BY SPACE MONKEYS' in the title or something like that..

What do you think?

'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
Extreme Sports Cafe | ESC's blog | scratt's blog | @thescratt
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scratt
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2007-02-19, 23:18

Just for the record it's now three hours and counting since I last tried to delete something from my iDisk.. And it's still busy trying to do it.

I have also tried to reallocate my Mail / iDisk storage, and also delete a load of archived mail. That was also 3 hours ago.

So far nothing has gone from my iDisk, but it is using more space than it was before I asked to delete some things.

Also, my mail account (even though I have deleted thousands of emails) has managed to use about 35% more storage than it did *before* I deleted those items.

My whole iDisk is now maxed out and claims to be using 1.6GB, when it is only a 1GB package!

Before I started these DELETE operations it was well within the 1GB limit, but insisted on sending me constant HTML reminder messages that I should buy more storage, or clear some space.

As it stands I doubt I will be able to send or recieve any email using my .Mac account for the rest of the day, and have no idea when the iDisk will sort itself out. So basically by following Brad's advice, and Apple's advice I am now in a complete s&$thole of a situation with nothing to do but twiddle my thumbs and wait... Don't worry, I don't blame you Brad, as I knew this would happen anyway.. I just wanted to make the point that the whole .Mac system sucks *unless* you are on the same internet backbone that Apple is connected to.

Oh and by the way.. When .Mac is in this state it will still let you send emails, but not actually send them, but also not tell you that fact. Nice.

I am so over .Mac.

EDIT - I particularly like that right now finder reports that it has -7 -11 -13 -15 -17items to delete from my iDisk! That's better than the 'less than a minute' message that normally comes about an hour before a copy / delete operation is complete!

'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
Extreme Sports Cafe | ESC's blog | scratt's blog | @thescratt
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Brad
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Join Date: May 2004
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2007-02-19, 23:27

Huh? What advice did I give? That you should use a third-party client like Transmit instead of the Finder? Were you getting that problem in Transmit?

Or do you mean the advice about voting with your wallet?

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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scratt
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2007-02-19, 23:31

I wasn't having a dig dude.. Just being ironic.

You said I should try resizing the allocation of iDisk / Mail at one point. I think early on in the thread in your amazing reply!

It's not unique advice, and I certainly don't really blame you. But it does illustrate yet another feature of .Mac that is, shall we say, lacking.

Currently running at -36 items still left to delete.

By the way.. From my locale using Transmit or any other ftp client is actually not much better when it comes to accessing your iDisk. It's not as buggy as finder, but certainly not any faster. I now truly believe you need to be in the US, preferably on the same section of backbone as Apple for .Mac to be any good at all.

-47 items left to delete....

'Remember, measure life by the moments that take your breath away, not by how many breaths you take'
Extreme Sports Cafe | ESC's blog | scratt's blog | @thescratt
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