[SonOfSylvanus]

Originally Posted by thequicksilver Perhaps I'm the only one that didn't know, but… Nick dePlume is 19??? And running TS since he was 13? Blimey.

Yeah I was amazed too. Go Nicky boy you whippersnapper you! Woot!

Originally Posted by usurp if nick cant rely on us to stand with him who can he rely on. Nick is a fan like us. he is not dealing with child porn, warez, or any other type of trash. all he is doing is posting "rumors". Apple should leave him alone. I dont understand how Nick could have so many enemies within the mac community. Who here hasnt checked thinksecret before a mac event? we all do as a teaser to see what might come or might not come.

I agree completely.

Plus, everyone who read the ThinkSecret rumours is an accessory to his 'crimes' and a probably knowing one at that.

Hipocrits, some of you

But anyway, lets all smile

[adam_tj]

What the heck is Apple doing?!? Their SUING their own buyers/fans? This is ridiculous!!! If they try to close ThinkSecret, i'll open my own rumors site. Screw Apple. I mean, how does "early product announcement" deduct money from them? They should be basking in the publicity, not trying to sue.

[WBG4]

It can cause them to lose money by that fact that it gives competitors a jump start. Also it seems to make their stock price fall when rumors are not true. People are also breaking the law with Nick's help.

[scratt]

I would certainly agree that there is more to this than just what we are seeing.

[Eugene]

Originally Posted by scratt 1) File the patent in a way that so well describes your idea that no-one else can plagiarize it and get away with it. 2) Filing a patent in the US alone will not protect you worldwide and the cost of adding regions to a Patent is as simple as adding a 0 to the end of the cost of filing eahc time. 3) Have enough money to actually defend that Patent should it be infringed... 4) Be willing to lose all that money and have your idea copied in many many countries which you simply cannot touch... Thailand, springs to mind...

1) How well the IP is described is on you.

2) No, it won't, but nothing will. It doesn't matter if you're first to ship anyway, so delaying copycats by a few cycles isn't what you should be most worried about.

3) You invent such a mind-blowing concept and you have no money to defend it? You'd have a zillion VCs knocking at your door to help.

4) Unavoidable. They will copy you regardless of whether trade secrets were stolen or not.

[scratt]

Originally Posted by Eugene 1) How well the IP is described is on you. 2) No, it won't, but nothing will. It doesn't matter if you're first to ship anyway, so delaying copycats by a few cycles isn't what you should be most worried about. 3) You invent such a mind-blowing concept and you have no money to defend it? You'd have a zillion VCs knocking at your door to help. 4) Unavoidable. They will copy you regardless of whether trade secrets were stolen or not.

1) Actually this has to be reviewed by a Patent Lawyer other wise you are almost guaranteed to be 100% SOL!

2) Patent law and Copyright law are two totally different things. When you ship means diddly-squat in terms of patents and everything in terms of Copyright. Have you ever heard of posting something to yourself in a recorded delivery envelope and never opening it? That's one good way of protecting copyright... but has nothing to do with patenting. In fact you can ship while patents are still pending.

3) Not every idea that is patented, or should have been patented and isn't is a mind blowing multi-million dollar concept.

4) Agreed.

[SonOfSylvanus]

Originally Posted by morningstarrising You know no company out there(well besides Disney and Microsoft) really sues anyone for no good reason...

...


...


...


AHA-AHAHAHAHAHA...HAHAHA HAHA—AHAHAHA...


HAHAHAHAHAHA...


Huh dear. Silly billy.

[El Guardo]

Originally Posted by Icarusty Yeah, I agree with that; in principle it is wrong, and as Apple I would be damn annoyed that the news got out. But because there really wasn't any lasting damage dealt, I think Apple's decision to file a lawsuit was much an overreaction.

No lasting damage? Not only does it further reveal part of Apple's corporate strategy, but it affords other manufacturers at least two weeks to copy/reverse-engineer a similar product and get it to market. The end result could therefore be greater competition and reduced sales. And that would be costly....

[ZogDog]

Originally Posted by adam_tj I mean, how does "early product announcement" deduct money from them? They should be basking in the publicity, not trying to sue.

Ever heard of the Stock Market? I guarantee people involved with the stocks of Apple are also perturbed by this leak. Sure, it's cool to have the info a bit in advance, bask in the "Coolness" of having their secrets revealed, but who gave you the right to know those secrets? The ones who made them confidential in the first place surely didn't.

People get involved with fan sites like thinksecret, and hope for upcoming "things" that are not supposed to be let out of the company room yet, but forget that there is a very STRONG business world in this country. ANY information about a competitors product coming out is BIG for them, the competing company. Let me ask you something about secrets and how you think some are okay to know/tell and others aren't; you remember a thing called the Cold War? Russia and the U.S., big enemies, spies, James Bond and the like? What if say, a person who was bribed or was given the chance to "give information away via mail" about the scheduled appearances and routes of important officials, like the President. Say the time frame was two days, they could easily, yes easily, organize an assassination of that official.

The business world may not be well known to all who frequent this board, but like cities outside of your own, there are many people who see things differently and businesses do NOT stand for their secrets being leaked. I would be just as ticked should someone leak something I was working on REGARDLESS of how close to launch time it was leaked. What if I had an entire event, like say Mac World Expo, for which to show this product, and let my stocks RISE at the news of a sub $500 mac. I would bask in the business success of which I strive to achieve... Am I rambling or do any readers know what I am saying? I understand it is all repetitive from earlier posts, but this was something I wanted to say in me own lingo.

[scratt]

I hear ya.
And I agree...

EDIT: Not sure where assasinating the president came into it.. But that sounds like a good idea too.. Oops.. There goes my cheap shopping trip!

[Wraven]

--EDIT--
I overreacted scratt - I apologize. One comment should not define someone. Carry on...

But would you do me a favor scratt and remove the part about assassinating the president and keep things mac-related? I try not to bring my own divisive political views into Mac discussions and I would appreciate the same courtesy from you and others in this forum. We can move that type of talk to the AppleOutsider forum perhaps. Thanks!

[kscherer]

Scratt, Wraven: You're both excellent candidates and have great careers ahead of you but . . . you're fired!

Uhh . . . back on subject:

I'm amazed at how easily people find it to justify wrong-doing. $1, $5, whatever. You lift it, you bad! Apple has a legal and moral right to defend their property. While I think suing ThinkSecret might seem a bit chinsey, I agree with others that even a slight miscalculation on timing can cost a company dearly. Apple has struggled to remain competitve for so long that we half expect them to fail each year. They have finally caught on to something big and, now that they are king in one area, everyone wants to knock them down. Apple has survived because their innovative ideas strike the consumer market as intuitive and useful and because they have been able to keep secrets.

I love the rumor mill and always watch it because it is fun. I hope ThinkSecret survives this, but I also hope that Apple's leaks are revealed and silenced. If you sign a contract, you should live up to it.

[ZogDog]

Originally Posted by kscherer If you sign a contract, you should live up to it.

With that statement, I bid thee all a goodnight...

[Icarusty]

Originally Posted by El Guardo No lasting damage? Not only does it further reveal part of Apple's corporate strategy, but it affords other manufacturers at least two weeks to copy/reverse-engineer a similar product and get it to market. The end result could therefore be greater competition and reduced sales. And that would be costly....

Oh yeah, because those two weeks are really going to get Apple into debt. All that was lost were two simple ideas, nothing revolutionary at all. Hell, it's not even new - instead of turning the shuffle function on from the software within, you do it physically.

And the whisper quiet, small form factor PC has been done for years. Even Apple did it a while back with the cube.

I'm sure the folk who come up with new features are losing sleep over the genius of the Apple engineers.

[oldmacfan]

Originally Posted by Icarusty And the whisper quiet, small form factor PC has been done for years. Even Apple did it a while back with the cube.

Outside of laptops, and the Sinclair 1000 what PC's are you talking about that have been done for years. A Cube is huge compared to the Mac Mini.

[scratt]

Originally Posted by Wraven --EDIT-- I overreacted scratt - I apologize. One comment should not define someone. Carry on... But would you do me a favor scratt and remove the part about assassinating the president and keep things mac-related? I try not to bring my own divisive political views into Mac discussions and I would appreciate the same courtesy from you and others in this forum. We can move that type of talk to the AppleOutsider forum perhaps. Thanks!

I am not sure that I suggested that.. I merely commented on a statement above on the thread.. Something about spilling the beans on a dignitarys movements... I think any of us can read between the lines on that one...

I'm not really of a mind to remove what I post. Sorry. Nothing personal.
I wish I had seen what you posted originally... must have missed the email update... But I bet it would have made me chuckle!
Been a busy day hurling myself out of planes again.

One of the things that is great about AppleNova is freedom of expression and I may be close to the mark in other areas, at times... but I am quite happy to take the heat and heck this place is not the Apple Forums..
Lighten up, dude.

[scratt]

Originally Posted by kscherer Scratt, Wraven: You're both excellent candidates and have great careers ahead of you but . . . you're fired! Uhh . . . back on subject: I'm amazed at how easily people find it to justify wrong-doing. $1, $5, whatever. You lift it, you bad! Apple has a legal and moral right to defend their property.

Awww... Dude... And I so love the benefits... Gimme another chance.

I think we are at least in agreement on the crux of this matter and the subject of this thread... Look back on topic! The bottom line is, and it does bear repeating, if you break the rules and get caught then you have to pay the price. People and companies (The two are seen as the same in legal eyes anyway) have a right to defend their property, be it physical or intellectual.

I do think Apple held back for a while because of Nick's age, and the unpopularity of suing parents of adolescents. Also they showed great patience sending quite a few 'Cease and Decist' notices..

Perhaps these is more to this than we all know as has already been pointed out... But then perhaps it si also the proverbial last straw and a case of it all coming of age...

Either way I am with Apple all the way. You know why... because I do believe they will seek a fair and equitable settlement. I do not think Nick will do any where near as bad as most people (and he probably) thinks. In fact I think in the long run he'll probably benefit.. Whether it is in more publicity or a change of track and a lesson well learnt.

[ThunderPoit]

Originally Posted by oldmacfan Outside of laptops, and the Sinclair 1000 what PC's are you talking about that have been done for years. A Cube is huge compared to the Mac Mini.

mini-itx.com has been making tiny pc's for quite a while. their smallest one that theyve been working on is called the nanode:

http://www.davidlegatt.com/pix/nanode.jpg

more info on it can be found here: http://www.mini-itx.com/news/nanode

800x600 is too big? sorry

[Wraven]

Freedom of expression is very important to me - so is obeying the law. I know you live in Thailand, so U.S. laws do not apply to you. It's just getting old to see stuff like this (i.e. political discussions) in non-related threads.

No big deal, and I have "lightened up dude." That's why I edited my post to begin with. Duh...

[scratt]

Freedom of expression is a wonderful thing... I do find it strange that freedom of expression in the land of the free has limits!! Now isn't that an oxy-moron of sorts?

Amen to not being subject to US laws whilst I reside in Thailand.

[Wraven]

I'm not saying it's right that there are laws that put some limits on freedom of expression, I'm just saying that there ARE such laws. And I (and others) living in the U.S. must obey them. Feel free to do as you wish (obviously). No big deal. I'm done in this thread (no offense to you scratt) - these types of (really, pointless) discussions give me tired-head. Besides, we are now COMPLETELY off topic.

Originally Posted by scratt Encouraging people to break the law is also a crime.

Cops do that all the time with undercover solicitors...

Originally Posted by ZogDog Let me ask you something about secrets and how you think some are okay to know/tell and others aren't; you remember a thing called the Cold War? Russia and the U.S., big enemies, spies, James Bond and the like? What if say, a person who was bribed or was given the chance to "give information away via mail" about the scheduled appearances and routes of important officials, like the President. Say the time frame was two days, they could easily, yes easily, organize an assassination of that official.

And what, you think the U.S. Government never had spies bribing nationals of other countries for secret information, possibly leading to assassinations?

It is okay for them to do it though, huh?

[scratt]

It's interesting the number of unique new posters who are recent members in this forum.... Not that I'm paranoid or anything... ;p

jrenny, I don't quite get your point...

Cops and spies [do that] all the time and it's not right you would seem to infer...
To quote an old addage... Two wrongs don't make a right, and anothers wrongdoing doesn't justify ones own.

What I am saying is that really your point isn't a point, really, and it tends to lend more weight to the arguments that I, and others, here are making, rather than the other way around.. Or am I misunderstanding you and that is what you intend?

[IVIIVI4ck3y27]

Originally Posted by ThunderPoit mini-itx.com has been making tiny pc's for quite a while. their smallest one that theyve been working on is called the nanode: http://www.davidlegatt.com/pix/nanode.jpg more info on it can be found here: http://www.mini-itx.com/news/nanode 800x600 is too big? sorry

That's scary on that Nanode. Outside of the large fascia machine screws, the overall height, and the crappy "Nanode" text on the front, it's actually pretty elegant (minimalist-style) looking for a PC. Almost like a Cube crossed with a Mac mini. Quite scary. The proportions are still a bit "odd" (hard to work with suppliers on the PC side I'm sure to get mechanisms that are as compact as the Mac mini) and the port arrangement out back is @ss ugly and almost random (typical PC), but compared to most of the teeny-tiny PC's that one's rather nice looking.

I do like MSI's 1990's-style Aiwa mini-system style PC with the AM/FM tuner but it definitely has a "Cheesy" factor going on with the funkadelic 90's style LCD display. LoL I almost want one though for the fact it's that ridiculous looking. LoL At least it's got "some" style compared to Shuttle's offering which is just flat out dull.

http://www.msicomputer.com/pressrelease/MEGAPC.asp

But yeah, "small" PC's are hardly new, but a "sliver" of a Cube is still pretty noteworthy.

[pxlphish]

I'm happy they tracked down this knucklehead. Sounds like this guy still has the mental compacity of a 13 year old.

Nick put Apple in this position. I think it's irrational to give Apple a hard time for this. They have to take action at some point to curb this behavior. In this marketplace Apple has to protect their ideas and intellectual material. Not to mention the fact that Apple is a PUBLICLY TRADED STOCK. This sort of crap can be devasting to a corporation financialy.

Honestly, if I could donate cash to Apple Legal fund I would be more than happy to do so. Apple lawers have plenty of things to deal with rather than to waste their time with this brat.

[oldmacfan]

Originally Posted by ThunderPoit mini-itx.com has been making tiny pc's for quite a while. their smallest one that theyve been working on is called the nanode: http://www.davidlegatt.com/pix/nanode.jpg more info on it can be found here: http://www.mini-itx.com/news/nanode 800x600 is too big? sorry

Um, ok but what you just linked to hasn't been released yet. (Q2 2005)

and don't point me to Shuttle boxes...

[adam_tj]

1) I'm 13. The "mental compacity of a 13 year old is kind of insulting, don't you think? (by the way-you have the spelling capacity of an eight year old)

2) He is gathering rumors about Apple and displaying them in one place. He is helping the Mac Community. I personally think his writing and reporting skills are great. Though I usually side with Apple, this time I am going to side with the defense. If I had the money, I'd help Nick's Legal team.

[FallenFromTheTree]

It's funny that both the White House and Apple are willing to threaten a reporter with jail to force them into revealing their sources.

What they really want is the leak source, not the publisher.

Let's imagine for a moment that the publication High Times
has a best plants photo contest.
Then imagine the Department Of Justice threatening High Times editors
with jail time if they did not reveal the sources of those photos.

This is why the press is protected from revealing their sources.

Nick's forum did not openly encourage any illegal activity.
In fact,
If you read the entire contents of the ThinkSecret Terms of Use
from the home page, it clearly states that ThinkSecret will not be
liable for any illegal activity by it's members.

[pxlphish]

Adam -

Oops. You are right. You get an A+. My spelling was a bit off, wasn't it. Funny, the "little red dotted lines" I rely on for spellcheck were turned off for some reason. See what happens when you rely on technology. I was typing with my daughter on my lap wiggling around trying to see Elmo in the other browser window.

I'm sorry if I offended you. Honestly. Free speech is one thing, but to inflict material damage on people in the name of free speech should be unacceptable, don't you think? This guy does it over and over.

Cheers.