[rcs]

apple insider...said that maybe the introduction will be much sooner and it'll have widescreen, isight built in & much thinner...

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1359

Nice...lets hope that its not too buggy...

[Robo]

The major rumor sites are finally "confirming" an Intel Powerbook in early 2006. I can dig.

I'm glad the iSight is centered in the upper bezel - it just seems like the most logical place for it. Placing it in the hidge is weird.

But no small Powerbook?

People complain about the huge gap in the desktop line now. Think of how big the gap in the notebook line would be without the 12" Powerbook! $700! And it sounds like there will only be one size of the next iBook!

Hopefully, Apple will introduce a 13" mobility-focused prosumer portable shortly after, but again, that would get them into the dangerous game of basing their higher-end notebooks off of their lower-end notebooks (unless they, say, introduce the iBook on Yonah, introduce the "Starbook" with a Merom, and then switch the iBook to the Starbook platform).

[AtHomeBoy_2000]

what's the "roll out" plan for MacTels? I thought Mac Mini was supposed to be one of th fist to make the change.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by AtHomeBoy_2000 what's the "roll out" plan for MacTels?

There is no public plan.

Anything anyone else tells you is pure speculation.

[rcs]

yeahhh...I really..really like to see 13" widescreen powerbook...*yum*

[psmith2.0]

Why is everyone completely hung up on the 12" PowerBook? I'm certainly not dinging it (having nearly bought one myself, and I love them). BUT, the current one is pretty neglected and I think - for whatever reason - simply isn't going to get much more love.

If a 13-14" widescreen iBook came out (I'm tired of providing these numbers over and over, but it really shouldn't be much deeper than the existing 12" Apple laptops, and only an inch or two wider...is that such a horrible burden?) and it had a honkin' Yonah processor (and all that it entails), plus all the other goodies we know to expect (AirPort, Bluetooth 2.0, FireWire, USB, Ethernet, etc.) and possibly some new ones (scrolling trackpad, iSight, sudden motion sensor, etc.), who would want a 12" PowerBook anyway, especially in its neglected, ceiling-hitting current state?



There simply might not be a place for a 12" PowerBook in Apple's future. There's no guarantee ANY of their stuff has to stick around, just because "we like it". Remember the Cube? TiBook? iPod mini? Loved and admired, worldwide. But GONE, every one. Some way before their time, many would argue.

Life goes on.

Be happy this stuff is possibly coming out sooner than later, and will most likely kick the living hell out of any laptop Apple is selling today!



Those of you getting too hung up on silver vs. white, Power vs. i, etc. and conjuring up crazy product lines that probably don't stand a chance of ever coming to be (what is a Starbook?), are setting yourselves up to be perpetually disappointed and yearning, I think.

For a good while, many of us called the 12" PowerBook a silver iBook anyway. Maybe Apple finally realized that, and knew that the 15" and 17" provide the space and design to truly create a monster professional laptop, and that a decent, more-than-respectable new iBook could be created with these new Intel processors...and that going wide keeps it small and shallow. Best of all worlds, and MAYBE they'll even have DVI on the new iBook? Or at least a high-end, or BTO, model? At that point, there truly is no need for a 12" PowerBook.

And if you've got a true "gotta be super small so I can use it on my train commute" fetish, then get a 10" Sony Vaio or whatever, and STFU.



Because I really don't think Apple is going to ever go that route, as sad as that may be to some...

[sunrain]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 And if you've got a true "gotta be super small so I can use it on my train commute" fetish, then get a 10" Sony Vaio or whatever, and STFU. Because I really don't think Apple is going to ever go that route, as sad as that may be to some...

And somewhere, Escher is sobbing quietly. Are you happy now?

[psmith2.0]

Ah, I'm sorry...

Didn't mean to sound harsh at all. I was just accepting that maybe Apple doesn't see where to take the 12", and want to focus on making a true, no-compromise PowerBook based on the 15" and 17".

And a new Yonah-based iBook could fill the lower slot (and still be small, slim and more powerful than anything we're accustomed to).

That ain't so terrible, is it?

Over three years since I mocked it up, I might be getting my wish of a widescreen iBook. And I'm digging that April-May timeframe...tax refund, PLUS my car is paid for in March...

Excited to see what happens!

[MCQ]

If they drop the 12" PB, then all they have to do is make the iBook with DVI-out, supported monitor spanning, and a 5400 rpm HD (optional 7200rpm) by May. Call it whatever you want.

[Robo]

The problem with a 13" iBook wouldn't be that it would be too big, but that it would be an iBook. Apple would no longer have a small professional notebook. That's a pretty big void, if you ask me.

I agree that Apple doesn't know where to take the 12". But isn't that what this Intel transition for? Isn't Apple supposed to be getting powerful, low-power chips?

As for a complicated lineup that has no chance of being, this is my concept for Apple's future notebook line:

13" iBook.
13" Prosumer mobile notebook. (That's the Starbook.)
15" Powerbook.
17" Powerbook.

That's simpler than the line they currently have.

I agree that they should focus on making the Powerbook a "monster professional laptop." I agree that they should design it around the 15" screen (like they've been doing.) I just also think that there needs to be a smaller, mid-range notebook.

We all complained that the 12" Powerbook wasn't really a Powerbook, and it wasn't. My concept would just take that and make it a new line. (Call it what you will.)

I really don't think it is that unreasonable, or that I'm setting myself up for dissapointment. What, do you think Apple is going to have a $1,000 gap in their notebook line?

[Anthem]

Originally Posted by Roboman 13" iBook. 13" Prosumer mobile notebook. (That's the Starbook.)

What's the difference?

If you want to simplify the lines, why not just go to three laptops, total?

On the other hand, that 12" PB is probably their top-margin machine.

[psmith2.0]

Originally Posted by Roboman The problem with a 13" iBook wouldn't be that it would be too big, but that it would be an iBook. Apple would no longer have a small professional notebook. That's a pretty big void, if you ask me.

What if they just had a "small good notebook"? What makes it officially "professional"? The silver casing? The word "Power" in its name?

What are you calling "professional"? Define.

Originally Posted by Roboman What, do you think Apple is going to have a $1,000 gap in their notebook line?

Where are you getting a "$1,000 gap" from?

[Satchmo]

If the rumours pan out that these laptops will be thinner by 25%, a 13" widescreen iBook could possibly be lighter and take up less area space than the 12" Powerbook.

[psmith2.0]

Exactly. If people would stop freaking out, they'll realize they may very well get something BETTER (smaller, lighter AND more powerful!) than their beloved 12" PowerBook.



That's all I've been saying. Those who think the 12" PowerBook is the pinnacle, and the end-all/be-all of small Apple laptops, are being shortsighted. Anything can be improved on, or done better...history tells us that.



In five or so months, there might be an Apple laptop that makes every one of us forget the 12" PowerBook ever existed. Take the example of the iPod mini...a HUGE seller and wildly popular, and loved by millions. Then along comes the nano. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see much handwringing and wailing over the iPod mini these days...anyone else?

[MCQ]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 What if they just had a "small good notebook"? What makes it officially "professional"? The silver casing? The word "Power" in its name? What are you calling "professional"? Define.

Yeah, as the lines of 12" PB/iBook continue to blur, they might as well just integrate the few features of the PB that's not in the current iBook (basically what I listed above) and call it whatever you want. [enter some random prefix here]Book.

Where are you getting a "$1,000 gap" from?

I'm assuming he's getting it from the current 12" iBook $999 price point (assuming they standardize on a 13" iBook and keep it at $999) to the current 15" PB $1999 price point.

[Satchmo]

One thing that hasn't been speculated on is the type of screen display.
I'd love to see some kind of X-Brite type display...although the glare might get irritating over time.

[aboodoo]

Hmm... I'm looking at getting a 12" PB at the moment (just had to cancel an order for one as the lease fell through). I can't afford a 15", would need dual screen (officially supported), but could otherwise get by with the iBook (since it has Airport Extreme, Bluetooth 2 and Sudden Motion Sensor). Now if they wanted to keep the distinction, they could have kept the iBook on Bluetooth 1.1/1.5 and without a Sudden Motion Sensor.

Seeing as everyone knows the dual screen thingy is there but disabled on the iBook, perhaps the 13" iBook *is* going to be the one for pros who work on the train? I see an awful lot of iBooks and PowerBooks on trains, and size is an issue (ever seen someone with a 17" PB on a train? Quite amusing - not, if you're sat opposite them)

Maybe if it wasn't crippled in any way and they called it a "Book mini", "PowerBook nano" or something :-)

It's unbelievably thin, and comes in glossy white or black...

(could intel PowerBooks be cheaper, so mere mortals like myself could afford a 15"? That's the other option :-) )

[Dave Hagan]

Originally Posted by Satchmo One thing that hasn't been speculated on is the type of screen display. I'd love to see some kind of X-Brite type display...although the glare might get irritating over time.

Steve & Apple will probably have some sort of answer for this with a totally redesigned notebook.

[psmith2.0]

Here's the Compaq laptop I saw last week at Best Buy.

I went to the site and got a few specs:

14" widescreen @ 1280x768 (totally acceptable...no change on vertical - who cares - but a nice jump from 1024 to 1280 on the horizontal: palettes, GarageBand and iMovie timelines, etc.). For a consumer laptop, no one should squawk, especially if they use a bright, crisp display that's an improvement over the current iBook one?

Dimensions: 13.15" (w) x 9.1" (d) x 1.53" (h)

12" iBook dimensions: 11.2" (w) x 9.06" (d) x 1.35" (h)

As you can see, the iBook can go about two inches wider and barely change, depth-wise (.04") and voila...instant widescreen iBook.

...and that's all pretending Apple does nothing space-saving wise. If they go to work on the bezel and work their magic, who's to say they can't get something a bit smaller and thinner? Something as deep as the current 12" PowerBook everyone loves so much, and only 2" or so wider?

[Dave Hagan]

I think Apple already has the answer for the PowerBook 12-inch, although it may not be a PowerBook. What if the rumored iBook widescreen is everything that the PowerBook 12-inch has and more? The reason I say this is because I believe that the move to Intel processors will help Apple eliminate the need to castrate some of their consumer offerings just so they don't tread on pro territory. Of course, I am speaking of monitor spanning, optical and analog audio in and out, etc.

[psmith2.0]

Exactly.

I'm hoping this Intel switch signals an end to the practice of artificial crippling of their hardware.

[shell]

1)
"Starbook" is a horrible name, sounds like something out of the eighties.

2)
Does anyone else remember when there was only one size PowerBook - 15.2 inches. Then they introduced the 12", after that the 17". Who would expect them to realease everything at once? The engineers already have a lot of work to do switching the entire line to x86, no need to delay them by insisting that everything be done at the same time. If they do indeed want to switch the iBooks and PowerBooks at the same time then it makes sense to only create three models 13'', 15'', and 17''. That pretty much covers the range of sizes that people will want. After they release those models, there's time to work on other laptops. At some later point they can introduce the 15'' iBook and 13'' PowerBook, which will round out their complete line of portables. Give them some time, we all now the switch is going to be an incremental process, I'm expecting about a year without a small PowerBook.

[Anthem]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Exactly. I'm hoping this Intel switch signals an end to the practice of artificial crippling of their hardware.

I'm with you here. DVI, spanning, and FW800 are great technologies. They should roll them out across the board... it gives them an advantage over other similarly-priced laptops.

I really think it makes sense to merge the lines. As you say, the iBook had to be crippled to keep from overpowering the powerbook. It would be better for everyone if we merged the lines and then had a more rapid upgrade cycle... say a refresh every 6 months.

[Anthem]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Here's the Compaq laptop I saw last week at Best Buy. I went to the site and got a few specs:

My sister just bought that and she loves it. It's tricked out (all possible upgrades) and it came out to about $1000.

[Robo]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 Exactly. If people would stop freaking out, they'll realize they may very well get something BETTER (smaller, lighter AND more powerful!) than their beloved 12" PowerBook.

I don't get your logic.

Yes, the next-generation iBook will probably be better than the current generation 12" Powerbook. So? The next-generation 12" Powerbook, if we saw one, would be more powerful still. You can't just say that if the next-generation iBook is more powerful than the current-generation 12" Powerbook, they should not make a next-generation 12" Powerbook. The current iBook is more powerful than the original Powerbook. Should they just stop making the Powerbook, because eventually, the iBook will be more powerful?

[psmith2.0]

I'm not saying they should, or shouldn't, do this or that. I'm just reading the report, which mentions there's no sign of the 12" and saying "well, it overlapped with the iBook so much...maybe Apple - because of its size - couldn't make it the feature-packed performer of the other two larger ones".

If the 12" had been like the 15" and 17" all along, I wouldn't think that. I'd naturally assume it was along for the ride (and it may still be...rumors aren't 100% accurate, you know). But, from the get-go, it was always below the other two: in processor, RAM, graphics, no lighted keyboard, no PC slot, no FireWire 800.

Worry less about my "logic", and think about what you're going to buy at some point.



And I agree with the guy above. "Starbook" has a distinct Mattel ring to it.



shell, you have your PowerBook data a bit off: the 15" was the sole G4-based PowerBook, correct. Until January 2003, when the 17" and 12" were released the same day. In fact, the 17" was announced first. That was the big news, the first 17" notebook and all. The "one more thing" was a few moments afterwards, when Steve when the OTHER way, and unveiled the 12", to everyone's delight.

The 15" remained with its two-year-old Titanium design (and didn't match the look/design of the two new models) until that following September at the Paris Expo, where the 15" aluminum was finally rolled out, and the 12" and 17" got their first updates (Rev. B).

That was the only "staggering": the nine months between the 12"/17" unveiling, and the 15" eventually following their design.

[SonOfSylvanus]

Originally Posted by Anthem I really think it makes sense to merge the lines. As you say, the iBook had to be crippled to keep from overpowering the powerbook. It would be better for everyone if we merged the lines and then had a more rapid upgrade cycle... say a refresh every 6 months.

Steve: "The iBook was our most successful notebook computer. As of today, we are no longer selling it..."

[psmith2.0]

He did it with the iPod mini!

"This has been an unbelievable seller, our most popular iPod...an iconic product, and we've sold bazillions. But today, we're saying 'screw it!'...I'd like to show you what I've got in my pocket, that small little pocket inside the big main one...".

[Mugge]

Well, the exact measurements doesn't matter to me. What does matter is that I can buy a small yet powerfull <something>Book from Apple that does about the same as the current 12".

I really like the size of my 12" iBook, and now that it has proven to me that Mac's are superior to PC's. I'm willing to pony up more $$$ for my next mac, when the time for that comes, but I'd like to keep it the same size.

And no pscates2.0. I'm not going to get at f***ing Vaio!

[Dave Hagan]

They could be all PowerBooks. A PowerBook for the consumer. A PowerBook Pro for the professional.