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Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2004-05-21, 15:59

Well, I'm in the market for a PowerBook. I'd thought I could hold off until next year or for whenever the mythical G5 PowerBooks arrived, but I've decided that necessity may win out before that time. I won't be living on campus any longer and the prospect of being away from my files and computer from morning to dusk is downright frightening.

As a university student, of course, I am still living on a relatively shoestring budget. I have had a small income with an intership over the last two semesters that I may have again in the fall. So, I'm not totally broke, but the profit stream is a small and slow one.

I've decided on a 15" PowerBook. Beyond that, though, I'm still trying to decide on some minor details. Specifically, I'm wondering if I should get the SuperDrive model or save myself $180 and get the Combo Drive. $180 plus tax goes a long way for me and could delay my purchase until I start working again part-way into the Autumn semester.

So, here's where I need advice from PB owners.
  • Do you generally experience better battery life with the Combo or Super drive? I've heard that the super drive can use up the battery much more rapidly than the combo.
  • Super Drive owners: how often do you find yourself burning DVDs as opposed to CDs?
  • What are your thoughts on external DVD burners? I could get the Combo and later on purchase an external DVD burner. I already have considered buying buying an external FireWire enclosure for old of the drives in my tower.
  • Other thoughts and opinions?
Many thanks in advance!

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Paul
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: New York City
 
2004-05-21, 16:03

the only big thing with the superdrive is easy backup... but since I'm sure you will be doing this via firewire anyway I don't think it will be that advantageous to you if that extra $200 is really that important...

also there is nothing you can't do with an external burner that can only be done on an internal one... (INCLUDING IDVD... there is a hack out there that will allow it to work with external burners...)

1215/234215 (top .51875%)
People really have got to stop thinking there is only one operating system, one economic system, one religion, and one business model. -EvilTwinSkippy (/.)
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FFL
Fishhead Family Reunited
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Slightly Off Center
 
2004-05-21, 16:16

I upgraded from a Combo drive to a Super drive last year and I've burned DVDs on my PowerBook about - twice maybe? And I believe the combo drive burns CDs a tad faster than the super drive does.

External FireWire is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

A friend bought a DVD External Burner recently and was quite disappointed when iDVD wouldn't work. I took the burner out of the beautiful LaCie case it came in, and popped it into his Power Mac. As thanks, he gave me the empty LaCie case... so for the price of a Pioneer 108 DVD-RW drive at NewEgg, this thing could become a sweet and fast external.

PM me if interested in a nice deal on the case.
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stoo
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2004-05-21, 19:25

Heh, I bought a maxed rev A 12" PowerBook when I left University. Just as well I got a "real" job soon after.

I wouldn't try to burn on battery power anyway. If I had no choice about being away from the mains I'd make sure I had max capacity.
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Maciej
M AH - ch ain saw
 
Join Date: May 2004
 
2004-05-21, 19:29

I am in strong agreement with FFL. I have the 1.25Ghz 15" Superdrive model, and I just burned my first DVD last week because I could not fit the folder onto a cd and I just did not want to split it up. I have had the PB for about 4 months, am very satisfied, but have not used the DVD-burner very much at all. Good luck, if you want more opinions don't hesitate to PM.

User formally known as Sh0eWax
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Paul
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: New York City
 
2004-05-21, 19:30

Quote:
Originally Posted by FFL
A friend bought a DVD External Burner recently and was quite disappointed when iDVD wouldn't work.
http://forum.rpc1.org/viewtopic.php?t=23370
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SonOfSylvanus
Fro Productions(tm)
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: London Town
 
2004-05-21, 19:48

Alas, I forked out for a SuperDrive 15" model last September, but still haven't burnt a DVD-R... well actually, I haven't burnt a disk of ANY description, to be honest. But, you see, I back-up to a LaCie D2 (USB2), I have an iPod for my music (so no need for the CD/Hi-Fi combo) and I play DVD movies on my Mac (so am more likely to rip a movie than burn one).

In the future, however, I think I will burn CDs - for my friend when we flat-share and she starts using my iTunes and buggin' me for copies - and, for my parents, I might burn DVDs - of photos. (More likely if I get a digital camera, anyway...).

As you can see, I'm not even a hardcore consumer when it comes to using removable media. But, I do use my PowerBook everywhere I go and I do back-up my data (kinda)regularly, yet I am at no loss for having not burned a single disc, DVD-R or other.

I coulda (shoulda?) bought the Combo (How much less!), but I spose I just wanted a machine that could Do Everything(tm). If the SuperDrive comes in handy in even just one life-or-death data situation, or I get to really show off with it at some point ( ), it'll be worth it.

Battery life for me was about 3hrs 20min for, say, the first 5 months of purchase (PB 15" SD 5400RPM) - but some or other update kinda killed that (I forget which one though). I've not really taxed the battery since, so I don't know what the actual battery duration is now. Must be around 3hrs, if that. My battery info is:
[PHP]ioreg -l | grep -i IOBatteryInfo

Wed 17 March
{"Capacity"=3568,"Amperage"=1386,"Current"=3406,"V oltage"=11516,"Flags"=4}
Sun 02 May
{"Capacity"=3312,"Amperage"=1200,"Current"=3293,"V oltage"=12406,"Flags"=1090519045}
Sat 22 May
{"Capacity"=3312,"Amperage"=1200,"Current"=3289,"V oltage"=12413,"Flags"=1090519045}[/PHP]

<shit> I just accidentally deleted a whole paragraph... eh, it was useless anyway... Oh no, I did say that battery life can't be much more than 3hrs for the combo.

BTW, you gotta get the backlit keyboard. I turned off my desk-light just now (its after 1AM) to remind myself how cool it is to use it (with screen brightness down to one bar - as is comfortable when viewing the screen in darkness). Turning off the backlight really shows how impossible it would be to type without it in these conditions. Plus, I'm the kinda Wally who goes gooey when the Lecturer turns out the lights without warning to use an overhead projector and the backlighting on his keyboard glows on automagically. *Giggle-hiccup*

Ooh, and you gotta get the graphics upgrade to 128MB. It seems so cheap to me. If you say you don't want to play UT2004 Anywhere In The World(tm) I'm going to cry.

bouncy bouncy

Last edited by SonOfSylvanus : 2004-05-21 at 19:52. Reason: Oh look, nice colours... I thought php meant code... eh
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thegelding
feeling my oats
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: there are nice people here...that makes me happy
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2004-05-21, 20:38

if you have kids and make movies with iMovie then you need a superdrive...i couldn't live without my superdrive....but i use it only to make iDVDs

if i had no kids i would get a combo drive for speed and such

g


goodluck with the PB purchase...perhaps you can talk locash and the other admins to front you some cash as a "site expense"


just tell alcimedes that the vB 3 license is actually about 2 grand more than previously thought

or you could just put up some "Hi, My name is Tina" ads to pay for it

crazy is not a rare human condition

everything is food if you chew hard enough
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Luca
ಠ_ರೃ
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
 
2004-05-21, 22:31

Well, you have a few options for upgrades, none of which are THAT expensive, but they add up:

1) 1.5 GHz - probably not enough of a difference to be worth the expense.
1b) 128 MB of VRAM - also probably won't make much of a difference, assuming you go to the 1.5 GHz one.

2) SuperDrive - Might be nice. Then again, it's less than $200 to get an external Firewire DVD burner. And unless you really have a need to make DVD copies or backups of things, it's probably not necessary. I have a DVD burner in my PowerMac, but they're certainly not a necessity.

3) RAM - Buy third party. You know this.

4) Hard drive - I think this is where you should drop the extra cash. Go for the 80 GB 5400 RPM hard drive and I'm sure you'll see a very big performance increase. Hard drive speeds are one of the last things holding up laptops from being as fast as desktops. There's a reason that a G3/900 B&W G3 will generally feel super fast in OS X compared to a G3/900 iBook, and I'm quite sure it's the hard drives. OS X uses the hard drive a lot so you really really want a faster drive.

5) Backlit keyboard - Bottom of the priority list. Unless, for instance, you live with a roommate or roommates, and you don't want to keep them up at night, it won't be very useful at all.

So that's what I think. Top of your priority list should be the 5400 RPM hard drive. Second would be the SuperDrive, and after that, moving to 1.5 GHz. Getting 128 MB of VRAM and having the backlit keyboard are really just for show anyway... not worth the money.
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torifile
Less than Stellar Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Durham, NC
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2004-05-21, 23:05

I've gotta put a good word in for the 12" powerbook. If portability is a concern and you'll have an external monitor for working on at home, you should seriously consider it. I've got the 12" and when I'm at home, I just plug in my external monitor, keyboard, etc, and it's like having a desktop. When I'm on the road, I NEVER feel like carrying the powerbook is a burden (I did when I had a tibook). Plus you can save a couple hundred $$ and buy yourself something nice. Just another suggestion.

OR you could wait until Tiger is released and get one with a 10% discount (if Apple holds true to form for OS releases). I figure that's about 5 months away... If you can wait that long, it might be worth it. (That's when I'm planning on buying a new powerbook.)
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MCQ
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2004-05-21, 23:18

I tend to side with Torifile on this, especially if budget is a concern... the $400 difference between 12"/15" is big, and you can still get the 80GB 5400rpm option. The biggest downside is the graphics, but if the FX5200 is sufficient for you, then having the 12" for classes/library and just attach to whatever monitor you'd have in the apartment would be a good solution for price, portability and performance.
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alcimedes
I shot the sherrif.
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2004-05-22, 00:01

well, as for DVD burner usage, i'd have to say that i use mine a few times a week.

if you're paranoid about your movies, you'll make backup copies of them. takes about an hour to do the entire process, not much time at all in the big scheme of things.

pop in the DVD. start the process. come back, reencode the movie, come back again and burn.

of course, if i weren't making backups of my movies, i'd probably use it twice a year.

as for the importance of features, i'd say the screen and processor are the most important. the processor because it's completely impossible to upgrade. (well, that and the video card)

the HD you can (albeit with some effort) upgrade down the line if you want to.
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FFL
Fishhead Family Reunited
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Slightly Off Center
 
2004-05-22, 00:14

Quote:
Originally Posted by alcimedes
if you're paranoid about your movies, you'll make backup copies of them. takes about an hour to do the entire process, not much time at all in the big scheme of things.

pop in the DVD. start the process. come back, reencode the movie, come back again and burn.
That's actually a great argument for going with a Combo drive built-in, and a faster external FW burner. Use the $ difference to max the hell out of your RAM, 'cause that's really all that matters when it comes to price/performance upgrades. Have you priced 1 GB chips yet, Brad?
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FFL
Fishhead Family Reunited
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Slightly Off Center
 
2004-05-22, 00:20

Quote:
Originally Posted by alcimedes
the HD you can (albeit with some effort) upgrade down the line if you want to.
Exactly... and to do so before maxxing out the RAM, would be a waste of $$ from a cost/benefit standpoint (unless you copy multi-GB files via FW on a daily basis or something...).
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Luca
ಠ_ರೃ
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
 
2004-05-22, 01:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by FFL
Exactly... and to do so before maxxing out the RAM, would be a waste of $$ from a cost/benefit standpoint (unless you copy multi-GB files via FW on a daily basis or something...).
I have to disagree. Unless you're doing some really heavy stuff, 512-1024 MB of RAM should be just fine. And you can always upgrade the RAM. The hard drive replacement will void the warranty, though.

I honestly think you'll see almost as much benefit as you would if you bumped the RAM from 256 MB to 512 MB as you would if you were to bump the hard drive from 4200 RPM to 5400 RPM. Not quite as much, but it should be very noticeable. A fast hard drive isn't just something you need for copying huge files. It will help with nearly all areas, just as adding RAM does.

If you're having trouble affording it, maybe the 12" with 768 MB of RAM, a 5400 RPM drive, and a large separate monitor would do the trick. The 15" is more desirable, but it's SO much more expensive than the 12" that it really would make me shy away from it.

Combo vs. Superdrive is up to you. I really can't say what I think on the issue, other than just get what you think you'd use. I will say that being able to burn DVDs is nice, but remember that you can always wait and get an external one later, for less money than an internal one.
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FFL
Fishhead Family Reunited
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Slightly Off Center
 
2004-05-22, 02:46

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca
I have to disagree. Unless you're doing some really heavy stuff, 512-1024 MB of RAM should be just fine.
Sorry, I still must disagree. A GB of RAM is a minimum for a power user like Brad, or like me... I routinely have 15-20 apps open at once, and Photoshop (the ultimate RAM hog) is usually one of them. Trust me, I know of what I speak, when I say that the RAM will make much more of a difference than the slightly-faster hard drive in overall system performance in daily usage.


Quote:
And you can always upgrade the RAM. The hard drive replacement will void the warranty, though.
Those are both very valid points that I agree with. In terms of RAM, I gotta say I was drooling at Messaiatosh's description of his new PB with one GB of RAM in one slot and one EMPTY slot just begging to have a one GB chip added... mmmmmm, twoooo gigs of RAM </homersimpson>

In terms of HD, you are completely right, unfortunately. Such was not the "case" with my beloved Ti800 from which I am currently posting, which came with a 40, currently has a 60, and may very well end up with an 80 before it retires. JEERS to Apple's HW engineers for making the AL PowerBook resemble the iBook when it comes to user-upgradable hard drives.


Quote:
I honestly think you'll see almost as much benefit as you would if you bumped the RAM from 256 MB to 512 MB as you would if you were to bump the hard drive from 4200 RPM to 5400 RPM.
Again, I have to completely disagree. Apps will launch slightly faster, huge files will copy or duplicate faster, and DV apps may perform slightly better (YMMV on this one), with the faster hard drive. But, overall system performance (read: multitasking, task switching, and page swapping) will be better served by one or two orders of magnitude, if your RAM is over a GB. Remember- HD access time is measured in milliseconds, and RAM access time is measured in nanoseconds. Do the math!


Quote:
If you're having trouble affording it, maybe the 12" with 768 MB of RAM, a 5400 RPM drive, and a large separate monitor would do the trick. The 15" is more desirable, but it's SO much more expensive than the 12" that it really would make me shy away from it.
One more time, I have to disagree (except about the extra monitor - spanning ROCKS). For 12" vs 15" PBs, it's not just the screen size (which is important), and it's not just the PC card slot (which is somewhat important to me as a semi-frequent digital photog who likes to download his photos without sucking down his camera's batteries). The most important distinction is the two slots for RAM chips.
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Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2004-05-23, 01:08

Thanks for all the advice everyone.

I'm still pretty much set on getting the 15" despite the price jump. The advantages are, well, listed above by FFL. I have a nice big 19" flat CRT, but to use it I'd have to drop another chunk of cash on a DVI to VGA converter. Besides that, I really hate using 1024*768. I have had to use that resolution on my iMac at work (and in labs on campus) and, frankly, I find it difficult getting as much work done. Sure, Expose helps with the multitasking some, but nothing beats actually having a few hundred more pixels around you to show more data on the screen at the same time.

I won't be maxing out the RAM immediately, but it's a definite objective for the future. I am indeed a heavy app user and it's not too infrequent for me to page out on my tower with 960 MB. When I'm working on a project with Photoshop and Cinema 4D or even just FCP, that RAM gets gobbled up in no time.

Remember, too, that this is going to be my *primary* machine once I get it. I'm going to want to be comfortable knowing that it'll work fast and well for a long time. I've had my dual 500 for almost four years now and it still amazes me sometimes with its speed. I know that portables are inherently inferior to towers in the speed department, but I'd like to feel the way I do now with the tower the same with a new PowerBook in a few years. That's actually part of the reason that I've held off on a notebook purchase for so long -- only recently have they felt like they're actually an improvement speed-wise over my aging tower.

Anyhow, that said, I'm finally convinced that I will not be getting the SuperDrive. The Combo will work perfectly for my needs. That's what I was originally thinking, but I just needed one more push in solidify that decision. I don't have movies I'll be duplicating and I'll have my other hard drives and plenty of CDs handy for data backup.

I may splurge and get the faster drive too. I'm used to running a sickly-fast 10000 RPM Ultra160 SCSI drive as my boot drive in my tower. I can immediately tell a difference when I boot from one of the 7200 RPM drives. I'm afraid that dropping all the way to a 4200 RPM drive in the PowerBook would just make me cry.

Again, thanks for all the advice! After I get my next paycheck I'll just be a couple hundred dollars short of actually submitting my purchase.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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MCQ
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2004-05-23, 02:45

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
I have a nice big 19" flat CRT, but to use it I'd have to drop another chunk of cash on a DVI to VGA converter.
Congrats on your future PB purchase I understand the reason why you decided against the 12"... makes sense in your case.

I'm a little confused by the quote above however, unless I misunderstood you. the DVI-VGA adapter costs $19 from Apple, and actually comes included with the PB.

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...nMore=M8754G/A

[Edit] In case you referring to the DVI-VGA adapter for the 12" as an extra purchase that would have cost money, that also comes with the 12" (mini-DVI to VGA)
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Luca
ಠ_ರೃ
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Minnesota
 
2004-05-23, 04:08

Plus, who buys a DVI-VGA adapter from APPLE? You can get one for $5-$10 anywhere else.
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Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2004-05-23, 11:54

D'oh!

Man, do I ever feel stupid. I just had done a quick google search and turned up this item in the first few entries.

DVI to VGA Converter

I've read about that manufacturer before and figured that the price of $395 was at least close to what I might find elsewhere. What is up with THAT? Yikes!

Anyway, cool! I must have completely overlooked that converters were dirt cheap elsewhere and that Apple actually includes one with the PowerBook. That suddenly makes the whole deal a LOT sweeter regardless of which one I get.

Thanks again, guys.

The quality of this board depends on the quality of the posts. The only way to guarantee thoughtful, informative discussion is to write thoughtful, informative posts. AppleNova is not a real-time chat forum. You have time to compose messages and edit them before and after posting.
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Ryan
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Promise Land of Trustafarians
 
2004-05-23, 20:41

You were probably looking at a VGA to DVI converter, which do cost somewhere in the neighborhood of 300-400 dollars.
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Brad
Selfish Heathen
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Zone of Pain
 
2004-05-23, 21:47

Nope, it's definitely a DVI-to-VGA converter...
Quote:
This converter converts the digital DVI signal from any graphics card into an analog VGA signal of the same resolution, allowing for the connection of digital only graphics cards to traditional VGA displays.
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Barto
Student extraordinaire
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Canberra, Australia
 
2004-05-24, 01:50

That device is a converter, not an adapter, that converts a digital signal to an analog signal. This is only necessary with DVI-D connectors: they only transmit a digital signal. 99% of DVI connectors are DVI-I, which carry both a TDMS (digital) and RGB (analog) signal: DVI-I to VGA adaptors are simply pin swapping which is why they are so cheap.

Barto

The sky was deep black; Jesus still loved me. I started down the alley, wailing in a ragged bass.
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