[ezkcdude]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...v=ap&type=lgns

The news headlines lately are some kind of Final Destination movie come true. Crazy how celebs are dropping like flies these days.

[murbot]

Jesus christ!! What the FUCK.

[psmith2.0]

Found at his girlfriend's(?) condo, and she was shot dead as well.

Very weird. I'm sure this is huge news up the road in Nashville. I recognized his name right away, even though I'm not really a football fan. But you can't live in Tennessee and not know a few names like this.

Pretty awful.

[torifile]

I remember Steve McNair when he was at like Alcorn State or whatever. I always sorta pulled for him because he was a star from a no-name school. I like that type of story. I have no idea what he was like because I didn't really follow his career or life but still... 36. That's just 3 years older than me. Too young.

[Moogs]

So many of these athletes, despite their good fortune and ability to get away from the gangster BS lifestyle as athletes (unless of course you're a genius like Allen Iverson or Stephon Marbury), invariably find themselves hanging out with the wrong people during and after their careers. Thugs follow the money; simple as that. And some of these guys don't know a real friend from an enemy. Ray Lewis, Pacman Jones, Michael Vick, you name it. Not sure if this will end up being that but anytime you have gun violence in that context, you have to wonder.

[zsummers]

Originally Posted by Moogs Ray Lewis, Pacman Jones, Michael Vick, you name it. Not sure if this will end up being that but anytime you have gun violence in that context, you have to wonder.

Not names that should be appropriately associated with McNair up to this point.

It currently looks like a murder/suicide. He was shot multiple times, while his "friend/girlfriend" was shot once to the head and the gun was found nearby. He had a wife, although to this point it sounds as if they were estranged.

Who knows what will come of it, and the wife/girlfriend aspect makes it less than clean-cut, but McNair was widely known as a stand-up guy--a class act who also happened to be a great athlete. Issues of character aside, he'll leave a legacy. Tom Curran, at NBCSports.com:

"He was the first black quarterback that a team built itself around and tethered its fortunes to from Day 1. It probably isn't a coincidence that, once it became clear McNair was the real deal, quarterbacks like Donovan McNabb, Akili Smith, Michael Vick and Vince Young were suddenly top five selections."

[ezkcdude]

Originally Posted by zsummers It currently looks like a murder/suicide. He was shot multiple times, while his "friend/girlfriend" was shot once to the head and the gun was found nearby. He had a wife, although to this point it sounds as if they were estranged.

ESPN reported that the gun was actually found under her body. Yep, definitely appears to be murder/suicide.

[Moogs]

Well in that case the hanging out with the wrong people theory (as far as thugdom goes) doesn't apply. And I didn't mean to suggest McNair himself was one but you know how it goes... a lot of these guys are decent enough people but for reasons of image or whatever, they choose to hang around with others who are anything but. When Keepin' it Real goes wrong?

[zsummers]

I thought this was some particularly nourishing food for thought, from Mike Florio over at PFT:

At a time when NFL fans and observers are struggling both to come to grips with the death of former Ravens and Titans quarterback Steve McNair and to comprehend the double life he was leading, a key question has arisen. How will McNair be remembered? Jemele Hill of ESPN.com argues that our memories of McNair should focus on the good things, and that we should accept the fact that athletes and celebrities are susceptible to the same flaws that afflict many members of the population at large. "Behind every wonderful athlete lurks a very fallible human condition," she writes. "And no matter how many football Sundays we spend with athletes, no matter how many wondrous tasks we see them performing, sports are only a brief snapshot of their life. . . . "But at a time like this, we need to remember that athletes don't live inside our television sets, nor do they live in their uniforms. They live in the real world, where they are free to make mistakes just like the rest of us." Nancy Gay, in her first column for Fanhouse, explains that the circumstances surrounding McNair's death shouldn't tarnish his legacy. McNair's coach in Baltimore, however, realizes that the negative will forever taint the positive. "It's a life lesson for all of us that all it takes is conduct in a certain way to wipe all that out," Brian Billick told WNST in Baltimore. "It will never remove the good things that he did with his life, but how he's perceived by the fans -- whether that has value or not -- that's irrecoverable. That asterisk is always going to be attached to it because of the tragic way his life ended." We think that the reality will land somewhere in the middle. McNair's actions weren't so egregious (or, as high-profile millionaire athletes go, unusual) to undermine the manner in which his playing career should be remembered. That said, even those who chalk up as evidence of McNair's humanity his decision to cavort with a girl 16 years his junior while he had a wife and four sons at home will remain cognizant of the fundamental fact that he betrayed his family. To be sure, pro athletes and celebrities have done far worse. But McNair's actions -- and their connection to his demise -- necessarily will tarnish his overall reputation as a football player and as a man. As Jamie Dukes of NFLN pointed out last week, players are human beings, and as such they will make mistakes. But this doesn't mean that their mistakes should be ignored; the rest of us can learn valuable lessons from the errors of those whom we tend to idolize. That's precisely why McNair's legacy fairly should consist of his full lifetime of behavior, good, bad, and otherwise.

It's great to see journalists addressing this question head on, rather than whitewashing it one way or the other (as was done with MJ to a great degree).

[hmurchison]

Stay away from crazy woman. There should be a required class for athletes on how to manage this. Well a few more of these and the Oxygen Network will be running Celebrity Snapped.

I don't know McNair's situation with his family. Athletes go through a rough time when their football career ends but seeing the scandals with politicians jumping on prostitutes and cheating with newscasters I'm not going to punish McNair anymore than them. In fact he wasn't lying about hanging out with this woman as far as I can tell.

[Wyatt]

Originally Posted by hmurchison Stay away from crazy woman. There should be a required class for athletes on how to manage this.

They actually do have those in the NFL. Rookies have to go through a seminar before they enter training camp. It includes discussions on how to decide if someone is the type of person you should spend time with, with a particular emphasis on women and your entourage.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Wyatt They actually do have those in the NFL. Rookies have to go through a seminar before they enter training camp. It includes discussions on how to decide if someone is the type of person you should spend time with, with a particular emphasis on women and your entourage.

Do they? Too bad there isn't one of those for rappers.

[zsummers]

Originally Posted by Dave Do they? Too bad there isn't one of those for rappers.

It's actually required. And if you have to miss it for any reason (sickness, like Percy Harvin this year), you have to attend the following year.

Makes some of the choices that players make even harder to take (DUI, etc.). These players are educated on their choices, offered services (like free limo service when drunk, etc.), and still end up in bad spots (see: Leonard Little; Jared Allen; Donte Stallworth).

[ezkcdude]

No surprise here, it was a murder-suicide. Apparently, she shot McNair in his sleep (how thoughtful). Worst part?

Interviews with friends revealed that she was making payments on two cars, her rent was doubling and she suspected the married McNair was having a second affair with another young woman, Serpas said.

A second affair? Yeah, it didn't bother her that he was cheating on her with his wife, but heaven forbid a third woman. Not that anyone deserves to be shot in cold blood, but I guess McNair was not quite the angel he seemed, afterall.

[psmith2.0]

That's the thing. If you're cheating with someone (if you're the "cheatee"), common sense has to tell you that his initial vows/loyalty to his wife count for very little, so there's a good chance he's double- (or triple-) dippin'.



"You cheatin' on me?"

Umm...you and I are already cheating. Remember? I have a wife. How can you be surprised?

"Yeah, but I thought I was your only side piece!"

It usually doesn't work that way, sweetpea...



Many (most?) guys are gonna put it wherever they can, and if they've already crossed the line once, chances are they're not going to be too precious and observant about "loyalty" and vows and that whole thing.

There's really no such thing as a "discriminating, moral cheater with a conscience".

"Okay, I'll have a wife and just one girlfriend...because having two or three is just tacky, and that would make me a real lowlife a-hole, right?")

[Moogs]

In a twisted way maybe it's good this sort of thing happens once in a while. Maybe some of these "genius" kids coming out of college ball will learn something... but most likely not. They all think they're freakin' invincible.

[Argento]

Originally Posted by Moogs In a twisted way maybe it's good this sort of thing happens once in a while. Maybe some of these "genius" kids coming out of college ball will learn something... but most likely not. They all think they're freakin' invincible.

Because cheating is only limited to sports stars Also, who doesn't think they're invincible when they are 10 - 30 years old? I certainly still feel I am, and if/when I'm proven wrong I won't be around to care.

Fact is he shouldn't have been cheating (probably) but he certainly shouldn't have been murdered. Trying to draw some sort of great moral lesson here is a waste since we're assuming 98% of the lead up, circumstances, and the events of the actual night of the killing.

The guy played great football, and did great things for society during and after his career. Those are facts. The other fact is that somebody was killed who shouldn't have been killed. It happens a lot, sadly. Anything more than that assumes we know the scope and guidelines of his relationship with his wife. I'm not willing to go there yet, and quite frankly marriage infidelity is everywhere and if people were killed for it...well there would certainly be less traffic in all major cities.

[ezkcdude]

To me, this is just another incidence that points out the absurd toleration of gun violence in our society. In fact, today there is a report of a little 8-year old girl who died after taking two shots to the head. I always think at some point, Americans are going to wake up and realize this is out of control. Call me naive, I guess.

[Moogs]

ezk: at this point there's nothing that can be done. Prohibition of guns wouldn't work any better than prohibition of alcohol did last century. The only possible solution is self-control and Americans are probably the world's biggest underachievers when it comes to that. Witness our obesity problems, credit card addictions, gambling addictions and all the rest. It's a set of cultural failings that would take a generation or more to undo. Gun violence is just a symptom of it, though a very ugly one.

Argento... we all felt we were invincible to some degree in our early 20s as we drank and partied and did whatever else, but college football players take it to another level. Maintaining their bad-ass image, risk taking behavior and the rest are typically more acute than other types of athletes and certainly more so than non-athletes of the same age. Add millions of dollars to the mix and greedy hoodlum "friends" (including women) and you have a recipe for trouble.

The point of all this being is many athletes coming into the NFL do not understand the concept of "action and consequence". And we see the proof on the nightly news every month just about and have for years.

[curiousuburb]

But can't we have bullet control?

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by curiousuburb But can't we have bullet control?

+1 one of Chris Rock's best.

[ezkcdude]

Originally Posted by Moogs ezk: at this point there's nothing that can be done. Prohibition of guns wouldn't work any better than prohibition of alcohol did last century. The only possible solution is self-control and Americans are probably the world's biggest underachievers when it comes to that. Witness our obesity problems, credit card addictions, gambling addictions and all the rest. It's a set of cultural failings that would take a generation or more to undo. Gun violence is just a symptom of it, though a very ugly one.

Well, it is true that McNair's assailant bought the gun illegally. I agree there's really no practical way of preventing that short of banning the production of all guns in America. I do support gun licensing and waiting periods, and I don't really understand why the NRA is so opposed to these *modest* reforms.

[psmith2.0]

There's gotta be some sensible middle ground between the unrealistic (and ridiculous, IMO) "no guns, ever!" contingent (who never seem to grasp that very simple, basic "street thugs and career criminals kinda make it a point to ignore and break laws" thing), and then the "guns for everyone, for any purpose, with no reasonable checks and verification because somehow that's a violation of our rights" voices from the other side.

Both sides (the extremes) tend to work my nerves.

[hmurchison]

"So what they gone do ban the AK but my shit wasn't registered any fcking way"

Ice Cube

I grew up in Tacoma Wa, a smaller town 40 minutes away from Seattle and home to a couple of military bases. Way back in the 90s we had the highest murder rate in the state I believe mainly due to gangs but there's an interesting side effect to areas like this. The mere "assumption" that someone has a gun leads to a bit more respect being doled out. Sure our murder rate was high because of gang violence but the presence of firearms is deterent to crime. Un-arm the civs and the criminals take over. Look at Katrina.

[ezkcdude]

Originally Posted by pscates2.0 There's gotta be some sensible middle ground between the unrealistic (and ridiculous, IMO) "no guns, ever!" contingent (who never seem to grasp that very simple, basic "street thugs and career criminals kinda make it a point to ignore and break laws" thing), and then the "guns for everyone, for any purpose, with no reasonable checks and verification because somehow that's a violation of our rights" voices from the other side. Both sides (the extremes) tend to work my nerves.

Woa. Why did you delete all that other stuff you wrote?

[psmith2.0]

Too off-topic, contentious, baiting, divisive. And sensible.



My apologies. But the above remaining paragraph sums up what I was getting at just fine (in 1/6th the space, and 1/4th the snark).

[Windswept]

Originally Posted by Wyatt They actually do have those in the NFL. Rookies have to go through a seminar before they enter training camp. It includes discussions on how to decide if someone is the type of person you should spend time with, with a particular emphasis on women and your entourage.

Wow. I'd really love to be a fly on the wall in a class like that... to hear what specific advice the instructor gives on picking a suitable woman. Seriously, just what qualities do you think would be on the list for such a woman?

I feel so sorry for McNair, to have this crazy 20-year-old, whose life was spiralling out of control, take him down with her. Gives me the absolute creeps. Such an incredible waste.

Originally Posted by hmurchison I grew up in Tacoma Wa, a smaller town 40 minutes away from Seattle and home to a couple of military bases. Way back in the 90s we had the highest murder rate in the state

On a trip I took, I stayed in a brand new Holiday Inn Express just off the freeway in a nice area just out of Tacoma. Sure enough, the next morning I woke up, went outside to put my luggage in the car, and the place was crawling with police and two homicide detectives because a murder had happened on the premises overnight. Really scary.

[psmith2.0]

Holy smokes!