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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-03-27, 10:01

Well, no live event this year, but Apple still has products in the pipeline, so the show must go on.

This year:

1) iOS 10.14
2) WatchOS 7
3) tvOS 14
5) iPadOS 14
6) MacOS 10.16 Santa SomethingSomething

I think this will be the year that Apple announces ARM Macs are coming (they pre-announced Intel systems with a 6-month to 1-year lead time). They need time to get developers working on this stuff, so if systems are going to ship later this year or first half of 2021 then the OS must be announced now!

Or do they just announce the crazy things in secret with, "Oh, hey, everything works just fine. We've developed a top secret emulator that runs all of your x86 code with no worries!" Seems to me that is a bad idea because developers will have no reason to write native software.

Hmmm …

I think it has to be announced in advance.

Apple also has to have time to cut orders with Intel. No reason to order 5 million chips if you only need … 1/3 of them?

Any-hoo, chat away!

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near Bremen, Germany
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2020-03-27, 15:12

Jason Snell speculated on Upgrade that part of the reason for this March iPad Pro upgrade is really to have a developer kit ready. Buy the Magic Keyboard for it, get a special version of macOS to install, and you basically have a 12.9-inch laptop that runs macOS on ARM.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-03-27, 15:27

Makes very good sense. Trackpad is there and everything.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2020-03-28, 11:11

I'm curious how they will present Intel to ARM. When they did it with the Mac mini and PowerPC to Intel it was only the one computer that was switched first. In today's world I'm guessing the iPad Pro is more powerful than that mini was in general computer terms.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2020-03-28, 14:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle View Post
I'm curious how they will present Intel to ARM. When they did it with the Mac mini and PowerPC to Intel it was only the one computer that was switched first. In today's world I'm guessing the iPad Pro is more powerful than that mini was in general computer terms.
<nitpick>

when they did it with Intel, they first gave developers a special version of the Power Mac G5 that had a Pentium 4 inside.

The first real Intel Macs, in January 2006, were the iMac and MacBook Pro (replacing the PowerBook G4), both of which had just been speedbumped in October 2005.

The Mac mini came a month later in February.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2020-03-28, 14:51

Guess I didn't get today's double Jeopardy.

I didn't become and Apple/Mac user until around that time frame.
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
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2020-03-28, 16:05

Let's just hope Mac OS 10.16 isn't as much of a nightmare as 10.15. Still refuse to install it on my machines.

From a user perspective there is unlikely to be meaningful impact on daily apps, moving to ARM. Moving from PPC to x86 was seamless for the most part, other than some legacy apps. I doubt we'll see major rewrites of Adobe apps, and other big ticket apps for a while though. To me the biggest question is, will Apple in moving to ARM also using the same GPU package as they do on iPad, or try to use something else? I doubt they'd be able to use AMD Radeon or NVIDIA chips, since they would need special custom firmware to work with it.
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2020-03-28, 16:31

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
I doubt we'll see major rewrites of Adobe apps, and other big ticket apps for a while though.
I really don't think Adobe has that much architecture-specific code left; such optimizations aren't anywhere near as necessary or useful as they were in the 90s.

And they've been working on getting some of their stuff running on ARM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB PM View Post
To me the biggest question is, will Apple in moving to ARM also using the same GPU package as they do on iPad, or try to use something else? I doubt they'd be able to use AMD Radeon or NVIDIA chips, since they would need special custom firmware to work with it.
EFI can work with ARM, if Apple wants to keep using that.
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Frank777
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2020-03-29, 03:37

I'm seeing rumours of USB4 showing up in 2022, and I can't understand why a standard that was finalized in 2019 would take so long to show up. Usually, it's 8-9 months, isn't it? I understand we may have delays because of current world events, but 2.5 years?
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2020-03-29, 05:05

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
I'm seeing rumours of USB4 showing up in 2022, and I can't understand why a standard that was finalized in 2019 would take so long to show up. Usually, it's 8-9 months, isn't it? I understand we may have delays because of current world events, but 2.5 years?
Tiger Lake (slated for late this year) will supposedly come with USB4.

It'll also be, for whatever it's worth one of the first chips with PCIe 4.0, even though the final spec of that was done in mid-2017. So such a delay isn't so unusual.
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Frank777
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
 
2020-03-29, 09:05

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Tiger Lake (slated for late this year) will supposedly come with USB4.

It'll also be, for whatever it's worth one of the first chips with PCIe 4.0, even though the final spec of that was done in mid-2017. So such a delay isn't so unusual.
Yes, but will late 2020 Macs come with Tiger Lake chips? I guess we'll see.

And I don't follow this side of things closely, but I read somewhere that PCIe 5.0 was going to leapfrog 4.0.
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chucker
 
Join Date: May 2004
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2020-03-29, 13:04

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
Yes, but will late 2020 Macs come with Tiger Lake chips? I guess we'll see.
Depends. Assuming annual updates, probably not.
  • we'll probably see a new 13- or 14-inch MacBook Pro with either Comet Lake-U or Ice Lake-U in Q2. They might stagger this again, releasing the base model separately, in which case that one might have Ice Lake and the others don't. (In a nut, Comet Lake has slightly better CPU perf, but Ice Lake has far better GPU perf.)
  • we might see a 16-inch MacBook Pro in Q2 as well, because Intel's Comet Lake-H would be ready. But they could also wait until late this year, because they recently updated it.
  • iMac is basically due for Comet Lake-S in Q2. Mostly boring.

None of those are Tiger Lake. Depending on when Tiger Lake-Y actually ships, in volume though, we might see another MacBook Air in Q4.

As for most other Macs: it's the generation after Comet Lake (which hasn't even come to the Mac yet), Rocket Lake, that will add USB4, and again, we might see that in Q4, but maybe not until H1 2021.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
And I don't follow this side of things closely, but I read somewhere that PCIe 5.0 was going to leapfrog 4.0.
Right, but if Intel is only starting PCIe 4 right now — and only for Tiger Lake. On the desktop side, it's not clear if PCIe will come in Rocket Lake, or actually not until Alder Lake, two generations from now.

(The good news, if any, is that Alder Lake is then slated to finally unify the 10nm and 14nm weirdness across the line-up.)

(Yes, I'm ignoring ARM here. Also the vague possibility of AMD.)
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
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2020-03-29, 13:28

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post
I'm seeing rumours of USB4 showing up in 2022, and I can't understand why a standard that was finalized in 2019 would take so long to show up. Usually, it's 8-9 months, isn't it? I understand we may have delays because of current world events, but 2.5 years?
USB4 isn't anything special, is mostly just USB3.x rebranded, with a version of it having thunderbolt speed, but not being fiber based like Thunderbolt 3. So more big, thick copper cables, in fact dual cables for the version that supports 40GB/s. So another version, with yet again with tons of needless point versions, and subversion. Such silliness.

PCIe 4/5 are coming, true enough. PCIe 4.0 is already here, and has been on shipping consumer AMD platforms and GPUs since last summer, but other than some high end SSDs, it's not even close to be being useful. Right now, if you aren't working on huge files, like uncompressed RAW 8K video for example, you'll never notice the difference. PCIe 5.0 likely won't be seen outside of data centers, and not for another 3-4 years, due to costs, and the size of the data pathways. It won't be practical or affordable on consumer products in the next 5-8 years, that much is for sure. The ratification of the PCIe 5.0 standard does not mean that it is ready for shipment, just the standard is there, so manufactures can begin testing and development projects.
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kscherer
The Ban Hammer
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Boyzeee
 
2020-03-31, 12:34

Since Paul went and derailed everything, I've snipped off the iPhone SE stuff and tossed it into its own thread. Now, if that thing get's launched at WWDC, Imma gonna laugh!

- AppleNova is the best Mac-users forum on the internet. We are smart, educated, capable, and helpful. We are also loaded with smart-alecks! :)
- Stand for something, or fall for anything!
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JudithRomero
BANNED
I am a filthy spammer.
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: 2924 Locust Street, Grand Rapids, Michigan(MI)
 
2020-04-02, 22:54

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucker View Post
Jason Snell speculated on Upgrade that part of the reason for this March iPad Pro upgrade is really to have a developer kit ready. Buy the Magic Keyboard for it, get a special version of macOS to install, and you basically have a 12.9-inch laptop that runs macOS on ARM.
Ahh, that makes sense. I was hoping to get started sooner while I’m stuck in lockdown!

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Last edited by kscherer : 2020-04-03 at 10:56.
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turtle
Lord of the Rant.
Formerly turtle2472
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate South Carolina
 
2020-04-03, 10:26

AirTags are apparently the next big thing.

I know a bunch of people who would buy them.

One thing I REALLY hope to see in the keynote is more home automation but with security in mind. I don't mind using my alarm system to manage my automation, but it doesn't have to be connected.

Louis L'Amour, “To make democracy work, we must be a notion of participants, not simply observers. One who does not vote has no right to complain.”
MineCraft? mc.applenova.com | Visit us! | Maybe someday I'll proof read, until then deal with it.
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PB PM
Sneaky Punk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via Skype™ to PB PM 
2020-04-03, 11:55

If the price tag isn't ridiculous, like must be less than $50 each, and they are small enough, I'd get some for my brother in law, he's always forgetting stuff. He has some from another brand, but they are huge.
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